G5 Advantages Being Minimized

Posted:
in Future Apple Hardware edited January 2014
Each week that passes without new Apple hardware powered by the purported G5 speed demon negates the impact such an announcement would make. <img src="graemlins/surprised.gif" border="0" alt="[Surprised]" /> Progress on new technologies is very rapid in the PC world as Intel and AMD move forward at a steady pace with new innovations. The latest is hyper-threading as can be seen with this C/Net article:



Intel "hyper-threading" to debut soon



By Stephen Shankland

Staff Writer, CNET News.com

February 6, 2002, 8:00 AM PT



Intel's "hyper-threading" technology for boosting chip performance will debut soon with its first server versions of the Pentium 4 chip, the chipmaker said.



Read the full article at



<a href="http://news.com.com/2100-1001-830470.html"; target="_blank">http://news.com.com/2100-1001-830470.html</a>;



Also discussed is the new 144 "NetBurst" instructions to take advantage of hyper-threading. <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />



[ 02-06-2002: Message edited by: sarasotabob ]</p>
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Comments

  • Reply 2 of 29
    powerdocpowerdoc Posts: 8,123member
    Intel is very strong for future annoucement.

    Hyperthreading may be an interesting technology , but need software optimization in order to work. So they will not be any improve of performance in the next days.



    Intel is able to say us, what will he do in the next ten years. We have seen the result with the Itanium, that was supposed to be chip in numers in the desktop computers nowdays (roadmap described 5 years ago). This chip was supposed to be a monster of power, it's not really the case ...

    Acts are better than annoucements. I prefer that nobody speaks of the G5 and to have the pleasure to discover him working (fine).
  • Reply 3 of 29
    telomartelomar Posts: 1,804member
    Actually all the current PIV chips could have hyperthreading already activated. Catch is without software being optimised for it they take a performance hit.



    Good technology but like so many things it is dependent on the software being coded for it.
  • Reply 4 of 29
    Hyperthreading is already enabled on .13um Intel Xeons. (1.8GHz/512K, 2.0GHz 512K, 2.2GHz/512K). All you need to take advantage of it are multithreaded programs and a motherboard that supports it, which would be just about any i860 chipset board that supports .13um Xeons.
  • Reply 5 of 29
    programmerprogrammer Posts: 3,457member
    Interestingly even Intel is downplaying the significance of hyper-threading. I guess in an environment where cache and bus bandwidth is extremely valuable the competition between two threads sharing the same resources is just counter-productive.



    The addition of yet more instructions is also really annoying -- Intel introduces instructions additions at such a rate that nobody can ever really take advantage of them, and writing software that runs on all their processors in anything close to an optimal fashion is literally impossible. They really ought to have to pay a billion dollars into a charity for overworked software developers for each new instruction they introduce -- that might make them think twice.
  • Reply 6 of 29
    [quote]The addition of yet more instructions is also really annoying<hr></blockquote>



    I've read the article and the link that talks about the instructions and I think that this is simply the SSE2 set that's been in the P7 core since its inception.



    [quote]Interestingly even Intel is downplaying the significance of hyper-threading.<hr></blockquote>



    Hyperthreading is not an end-all/be-all performance booster. It is, however, a nice way to get some of the benefits of multiple processors without the additional hardware. If you use programs that take advantage of SMP, you can realize fairly sizeable performance gains -- 10% or more, with 30% being not out of the realm of possibility.
  • Reply 7 of 29
    airslufairsluf Posts: 1,861member
  • Reply 8 of 29
    The latest announcement that no new CPU/Hardware (whatever that means) will be announced for some months is another example of G5 advantages being minimized......the longer it takes to get to market.....the less the impact it will have on the current processors available to the PC vendors. We will obviously see the G5 at some point, however, its impact will be marginal at point of introduction as PC technology (mobo, interconnects, bus speeds, etc) will have advanced considerably in the intervening timeframe! Chip speed is not the only factor in overall performance, the G4 has proven that point.
  • Reply 9 of 29
    [quote]Originally posted by sarasotabob:

    <strong>The latest announcement that no new CPU/Hardware (whatever that means) will be announced for some months is another example of G5 advantages being minimized......the longer it takes to get to market.....the less the impact it will have on the current processors available to the PC vendors. We will obviously see the G5 at some point, however, its impact will be marginal at point of introduction as PC technology (mobo, interconnects, bus speeds, etc) will have advanced considerably in the intervening timeframe! Chip speed is not the only factor in overall performance, the G4 has proven that point.</strong><hr></blockquote>



    The statement changed anything. He didn't say there was a delay in the release. Apple has never even said the G5 exists! He merely said that whatever CPUs Apple sells now are the ones they intend to keep selling for the next few months. The only reason for making this bizarre statement is due to the rampant speculation that the current hardware will be replaced any day which might be putting a damper on sales. Joswiak's assertion of normalicy was intended to put a damper on rumors.
  • Reply 10 of 29
    well from what moto seems to be planning, We are going to be getting 1.5 ghz g4s with ddr-ram, 333mhz system bus, using SOI, rapid I/O and other goodies...this is BASICALLY a g5....my belief is that somewhere along the line some insider confused the future g4 with the g5, posted this true but false info on the net, gets everyone worked up, but in its just a super buff g4...not a g5...that is on the way.

    IF this is the case than the REAL g5 will be unreal.
  • Reply 11 of 29
    Would somebody please define what exactly a real G5 would be, vs. a G4 all made up pretty?



    :confused:



    thanksabunch
  • Reply 12 of 29
    Presumably a G5 would be a significant upgrade of the PowerPC processor on par with the difference between the G3 and G4 or the 600 series (601,602,603,604) and the G3. ?G? is supposed to stand for generation. It?s as subjective as naming software releases. I?m sure you have read reviews before where the reviewer says something like ?This new version has some wonderful features but doesn?t seem to be worthy of a full version upgrade? (like 2.0 to 3.0 rather than 2.0 to 2.5). What Moto calls it is just as subjective but for marketing reasons hopefully is enough of an improvement in performance to warrant calling it a ?new generation in PowerPC technology? as I?m sure the press release would say.
  • Reply 13 of 29
    Hello all, this is my first posting on this board.



    This whole issue of G5 or not G5 has really gotten out of hand. The big problem Apple has right now is that many anxious buyers were hoping for some Power Mac with a little more oomph. All they got was faster G4's and faster cache. Had Apple delievered a faster bus like 266MHz or more, faster DDR or Rambus memory and a little more flexibility in the built to order camp, I'm sure many people would not be bitching about the G5 and would happily go out and buy that new Power Mac. While Apple is catching up in the MHz hype by giving ample CPU performance even with 933MHz or 1GHz processors, they are one year behind in the memory bus arena and still not offering USB 2.0 or the purported gigawire. IMO Apple lowered the prices of the new Power Macs because they knew they'd have a tough time selling what they have with so many rumours of the G5 and with not much of a technological boost in the new Power Macs.
  • Reply 14 of 29
    [quote] Hello all, this is my first posting on this board.



    This whole issue of G5 or not G5 has really gotten out of hand. The big problem Apple has right now is that many anxious buyers were hoping for some Power Mac with a little more oomph. All they got was faster G4's and faster cache. Had Apple delievered a faster bus like 266MHz or more, faster DDR or Rambus memory and a little more flexibility in the built to order camp, I'm sure many people would not be bitching about the G5 and would happily go out and buy that new Power Mac. While Apple is catching up in the MHz hype by giving ample CPU performance even with 933MHz or 1GHz processors, they are one year behind in the memory bus arena and still not offering USB 2.0 or the purported gigawire. IMO Apple lowered the prices of the new Power Macs because they knew they'd have a tough time selling what they have with so many rumours of the G5 and with not much of a technological boost in the new Power Macs.

    <hr></blockquote>



    I have to agree with you. Apple always seems a behind on mobo technology. The iMac only having a 100 MHz bus, the PowerMac only having a 133 MHz bus. Remember MWSF 2001, when they finally replaced the old 100 MHz bus on the PowerMac with the current 133 MHz bus.



    I don't know how much this really affects performance but I remember John Carmack saying that one of the reasons PCs can outperform Macs in 3D gaming is that there isn't enough memory throughput on the Macs. Heck, even Apple claimed they say a 10% performance boost in the iBook when they took it from 66 to 100 MHz FSB without changing the CPU.



    The current PowerMac mobo really makes me think that Apple has something better in the pipe after these purported couple of months. I hope we don't have to wait until July but who knows.
  • Reply 15 of 29
    [quote]Originally posted by Quarem:

    <strong>The current PowerMac mobo really makes me think that Apple has something better in the pipe after these purported couple of months. I hope we don't have to wait until July but who knows.</strong><hr></blockquote>



    I'm just hoping we don't have to wait any longer than July!!
  • Reply 16 of 29
    I have think and agree too that Apple will no doubt release a new mobo in the next few months but still with the G4 although faster clocks. The G4 is a darned good processor from what I've been able to see. The increased bus and I/O speeds will no doubt make one heck of a difference. I wish Apple had done this mobo upgrade now so I wouldn't have to wait.



    [ 02-14-2002: Message edited by: DVD_Junkie ]</p>
  • Reply 17 of 29
    Apple will probably release G5 in WWDC. Since sources related to G5 pointed to the chip max freq at only 2 GHZ. If Apple continue to use Apollo in their PowerMac then G4 will continue to have adverse impact to G5 development. Initial reports about G5, was its last seen finalize at Version 0.8. This was news reported by Register on December, Moto probably needs at least 4 months to ramp up the product for WWDC. PowerBook at the same time will be bumped probably to 867 under HiperMos 7 with 7470. As for iMac, 7460 will not be use but it will have 1 GHZ 7455.
  • Reply 18 of 29
    amorphamorph Posts: 7,112member
    [quote]Originally posted by DVD_Junkie:

    <strong>Hello all, this is my first posting on this board.</strong><hr></blockquote>



    Hi.



    [quote]<strong>The big problem Apple has right now is that many anxious buyers were hoping for some Power Mac with a little more oomph. All they got was faster G4's and faster cache.</strong><hr></blockquote>



    The new machines deliver about 30% more oomph at the top end for a $500 price cut, which seems to me to be a fair improvement.



    [quote]<strong>Had Apple delievered a faster bus like 266MHz or more, faster DDR or Rambus memory and a little more flexibility in the built to order camp</strong><hr></blockquote>



    Apple can't introduce faster busses, DDR or RDRAM until they have a processor whose frontside bus supports those technologies. There isn't one yet. Fortunately, the G4 (like the G3) is specifically designed to be attached to a (relatively) slow bus, so real performance is still pretty impressive.



    Apple tends to be stingy with BTO until they have the kinks worked out of their production lines. Look for Apple to silently add BTO options as the current models mature.



    [quote]<strong>not offering USB 2.0 or the purported gigawire.</strong><hr></blockquote>



    It's not in their interest to offer USB 2 until Firewire2 appears, and the standard for FW2 has only just been finalized. Not only that, but to upgrade FW they have to revise their almost-all-in-one ASICs, and it's not economical to do that unless a number of other things will change too. In other words, it'll happen with a motherboard revision.



    [quote]<strong>IMO Apple lowered the prices of the new Power Macs because they knew they'd have a tough time selling what they have with so many rumours of the G5 and with not much of a technological boost in the new Power Macs.</strong><hr></blockquote>



    They also lowered the prices of the TiBooks last fall, and the price cuts stayed when they upgraded the line. They probably have lost some people to G5 expectations, but that's not new: There were people expecting the G5 last MWNY, too. There are people clamoring for it even though they don't have the foggiest idea what it is, or what it requires. :confused:



    Whatever the reason for the price cut, it seems to be working. Apple reports being happy with sales of the towers, and the dual GHz model in particular has generate the kind of buzz that I haven't seen an Apple tower generate in a long time.
  • Reply 19 of 29
    leonisleonis Posts: 3,427member
    [quote]Originally posted by Amorph:

    <strong> There were people expecting the G5 last MWNY, too. </strong><hr></blockquote>



    I was only expecting 1Ghz G4 @ MWNY



    Six months late....



    I didn't expect G5 in the last MacWorld. I expected 1.2Ghz+ G4. Too bad it too didn't happen
  • Reply 20 of 29
    While it's not a trivial matter for Apple to redesign the mobo for the G4's, the perception in the buying public's eye is that the current crop of Power Macs add only a fairly moderate incremental performance boost over the models they replace. Mac buyers that I know are a finicky bunch who like to keep and use their macs for a long time contrary to many Wintelers who like to change every 2 years. So, I guess many including myself were hoping for a little more than just faster clocked CPU's. You see, with Mac's, one just can't go out to Apple and upgrade their processor whereas with Intel CPU's, one could easily go out and buy that faster processor after a few months. Mac buyers are pretty much locked in to the machine's performance from day one. I wish Apple would start to offer or design products that allow users to upgrade processor or mobo's. I know there are 3rd party sources of processors like Sonnet and XLR8, but they are usually many months if not years away from offering anything viable to upgrade that 800MHz G4.



    Decisions, decisions....
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