G5 Advantages Being Minimized
Each week that passes without new Apple hardware powered by the purported G5 speed demon negates the impact such an announcement would make. <img src="graemlins/surprised.gif" border="0" alt="[Surprised]" /> Progress on new technologies is very rapid in the PC world as Intel and AMD move forward at a steady pace with new innovations. The latest is hyper-threading as can be seen with this C/Net article:
Intel "hyper-threading" to debut soon
By Stephen Shankland
Staff Writer, CNET News.com
February 6, 2002, 8:00 AM PT
Intel's "hyper-threading" technology for boosting chip performance will debut soon with its first server versions of the Pentium 4 chip, the chipmaker said.
Read the full article at
<a href="http://news.com.com/2100-1001-830470.html" target="_blank">http://news.com.com/2100-1001-830470.html</a>
Also discussed is the new 144 "NetBurst" instructions to take advantage of hyper-threading. <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />
[ 02-06-2002: Message edited by: sarasotabob ]</p>
Intel "hyper-threading" to debut soon
By Stephen Shankland
Staff Writer, CNET News.com
February 6, 2002, 8:00 AM PT
Intel's "hyper-threading" technology for boosting chip performance will debut soon with its first server versions of the Pentium 4 chip, the chipmaker said.
Read the full article at
<a href="http://news.com.com/2100-1001-830470.html" target="_blank">http://news.com.com/2100-1001-830470.html</a>
Also discussed is the new 144 "NetBurst" instructions to take advantage of hyper-threading. <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />
[ 02-06-2002: Message edited by: sarasotabob ]</p>
Comments
<a href="http://www.siliconstrategies.com/story/OEG20020206S0024" target="_blank">http://www.siliconstrategies.com/story/OEG20020206S0024</a> :cool:
Hyperthreading may be an interesting technology , but need software optimization in order to work. So they will not be any improve of performance in the next days.
Intel is able to say us, what will he do in the next ten years. We have seen the result with the Itanium, that was supposed to be chip in numers in the desktop computers nowdays (roadmap described 5 years ago). This chip was supposed to be a monster of power, it's not really the case ...
Acts are better than annoucements. I prefer that nobody speaks of the G5 and to have the pleasure to discover him working (fine).
Good technology but like so many things it is dependent on the software being coded for it.
The addition of yet more instructions is also really annoying -- Intel introduces instructions additions at such a rate that nobody can ever really take advantage of them, and writing software that runs on all their processors in anything close to an optimal fashion is literally impossible. They really ought to have to pay a billion dollars into a charity for overworked software developers for each new instruction they introduce -- that might make them think twice.
I've read the article and the link that talks about the instructions and I think that this is simply the SSE2 set that's been in the P7 core since its inception.
[quote]Interestingly even Intel is downplaying the significance of hyper-threading.<hr></blockquote>
Hyperthreading is not an end-all/be-all performance booster. It is, however, a nice way to get some of the benefits of multiple processors without the additional hardware. If you use programs that take advantage of SMP, you can realize fairly sizeable performance gains -- 10% or more, with 30% being not out of the realm of possibility.
<strong>The latest announcement that no new CPU/Hardware (whatever that means) will be announced for some months is another example of G5 advantages being minimized......the longer it takes to get to market.....the less the impact it will have on the current processors available to the PC vendors. We will obviously see the G5 at some point, however, its impact will be marginal at point of introduction as PC technology (mobo, interconnects, bus speeds, etc) will have advanced considerably in the intervening timeframe! Chip speed is not the only factor in overall performance, the G4 has proven that point.</strong><hr></blockquote>
The statement changed anything. He didn't say there was a delay in the release. Apple has never even said the G5 exists! He merely said that whatever CPUs Apple sells now are the ones they intend to keep selling for the next few months. The only reason for making this bizarre statement is due to the rampant speculation that the current hardware will be replaced any day which might be putting a damper on sales. Joswiak's assertion of normalicy was intended to put a damper on rumors.
IF this is the case than the REAL g5 will be unreal.
thanksabunch
This whole issue of G5 or not G5 has really gotten out of hand. The big problem Apple has right now is that many anxious buyers were hoping for some Power Mac with a little more oomph. All they got was faster G4's and faster cache. Had Apple delievered a faster bus like 266MHz or more, faster DDR or Rambus memory and a little more flexibility in the built to order camp, I'm sure many people would not be bitching about the G5 and would happily go out and buy that new Power Mac. While Apple is catching up in the MHz hype by giving ample CPU performance even with 933MHz or 1GHz processors, they are one year behind in the memory bus arena and still not offering USB 2.0 or the purported gigawire. IMO Apple lowered the prices of the new Power Macs because they knew they'd have a tough time selling what they have with so many rumours of the G5 and with not much of a technological boost in the new Power Macs.
This whole issue of G5 or not G5 has really gotten out of hand. The big problem Apple has right now is that many anxious buyers were hoping for some Power Mac with a little more oomph. All they got was faster G4's and faster cache. Had Apple delievered a faster bus like 266MHz or more, faster DDR or Rambus memory and a little more flexibility in the built to order camp, I'm sure many people would not be bitching about the G5 and would happily go out and buy that new Power Mac. While Apple is catching up in the MHz hype by giving ample CPU performance even with 933MHz or 1GHz processors, they are one year behind in the memory bus arena and still not offering USB 2.0 or the purported gigawire. IMO Apple lowered the prices of the new Power Macs because they knew they'd have a tough time selling what they have with so many rumours of the G5 and with not much of a technological boost in the new Power Macs.
<hr></blockquote>
I have to agree with you. Apple always seems a behind on mobo technology. The iMac only having a 100 MHz bus, the PowerMac only having a 133 MHz bus. Remember MWSF 2001, when they finally replaced the old 100 MHz bus on the PowerMac with the current 133 MHz bus.
I don't know how much this really affects performance but I remember John Carmack saying that one of the reasons PCs can outperform Macs in 3D gaming is that there isn't enough memory throughput on the Macs. Heck, even Apple claimed they say a 10% performance boost in the iBook when they took it from 66 to 100 MHz FSB without changing the CPU.
The current PowerMac mobo really makes me think that Apple has something better in the pipe after these purported couple of months. I hope we don't have to wait until July but who knows.
<strong>The current PowerMac mobo really makes me think that Apple has something better in the pipe after these purported couple of months. I hope we don't have to wait until July but who knows.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I'm just hoping we don't have to wait any longer than July!!
[ 02-14-2002: Message edited by: DVD_Junkie ]</p>
<strong>Hello all, this is my first posting on this board.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Hi.
[quote]<strong>The big problem Apple has right now is that many anxious buyers were hoping for some Power Mac with a little more oomph. All they got was faster G4's and faster cache.</strong><hr></blockquote>
The new machines deliver about 30% more oomph at the top end for a $500 price cut, which seems to me to be a fair improvement.
[quote]<strong>Had Apple delievered a faster bus like 266MHz or more, faster DDR or Rambus memory and a little more flexibility in the built to order camp</strong><hr></blockquote>
Apple can't introduce faster busses, DDR or RDRAM until they have a processor whose frontside bus supports those technologies. There isn't one yet. Fortunately, the G4 (like the G3) is specifically designed to be attached to a (relatively) slow bus, so real performance is still pretty impressive.
Apple tends to be stingy with BTO until they have the kinks worked out of their production lines. Look for Apple to silently add BTO options as the current models mature.
[quote]<strong>not offering USB 2.0 or the purported gigawire.</strong><hr></blockquote>
It's not in their interest to offer USB 2 until Firewire2 appears, and the standard for FW2 has only just been finalized. Not only that, but to upgrade FW they have to revise their almost-all-in-one ASICs, and it's not economical to do that unless a number of other things will change too. In other words, it'll happen with a motherboard revision.
[quote]<strong>IMO Apple lowered the prices of the new Power Macs because they knew they'd have a tough time selling what they have with so many rumours of the G5 and with not much of a technological boost in the new Power Macs.</strong><hr></blockquote>
They also lowered the prices of the TiBooks last fall, and the price cuts stayed when they upgraded the line. They probably have lost some people to G5 expectations, but that's not new: There were people expecting the G5 last MWNY, too. There are people clamoring for it even though they don't have the foggiest idea what it is, or what it requires.
Whatever the reason for the price cut, it seems to be working. Apple reports being happy with sales of the towers, and the dual GHz model in particular has generate the kind of buzz that I haven't seen an Apple tower generate in a long time.
<strong> There were people expecting the G5 last MWNY, too. </strong><hr></blockquote>
I was only expecting 1Ghz G4 @ MWNY
Six months late....
I didn't expect G5 in the last MacWorld. I expected 1.2Ghz+ G4. Too bad it too didn't happen
Decisions, decisions....