hmm, anyone know if the iPod uses a native firewire harddrive?
if apple started moving this direction that would be really cool. also, why don't they make drivers so their iPod can run off PC's. that would open up a huge market to them that isn't available at the moment.
Before this became practical something faster than Firewire would be needed for connecting the HD.
However, it's already possible to carry around a system on the iPod. Just install OS 9 or X, and you've got a portable OS. At 5 MB it doesn't leave much room for apps or docs, but it's still pretty damn cool if you ask me.
Or you could forget the iPod and just buy a Firewire portable HD...but again speed is a problem. Perhaps Gigawire is the solution?
Hmm, are you really talking abaout the iPod? In my opinion it has a 5gig HD. Okay thats not that much. But for a fast removable storage device it should by quite enough.
And Firewire too slow. As I know the limitations are because of the bridge that is used for non-native HDs. And isn´t there FW2 knocking at the door with 800mbit or even 1,6Gbit/s?
But despite of that, I don´t see this as built-in feature. It will only be an add-on. Maybe as iDock. A slot for a device like iPod would not look very nice. And i would not be flexible enough for future devices. I.e. an iCam in the case of the iPod would be awful to handle.
You ahve a commercial for a cliant, and it's not finished quite yet, but you need to get on your plane. So you do. But you have a 3 hour layover in some wierd city. So you get off the plane, get a cup of coffe, and park yourself in front of an iMac terminal. No HD in the mac save for the system disk, so you pop in your disk. You work on it and when it's done, you take it with you.
Or in a coffee shop that sports iMacs.
Or at your school or university, where funding (for state run schools) isn't enough to allow for enough computers. So you do your work on the comptuer, but TAKE YOUR WORK WITH YOU.
<hr></blockquote>
Yeah, see, this concept already exsits....its called the PowerBook G4. Desktop power to go....
Just thinking about these removable drives for iMacs and other stuff thats been coming up in other threads too.... I'm taking it with a pinch of salt as one must all rumors, but I would like to believe ....
I'm thinking that some naysayers are saying its unlikey a consumer model Mac would get something like this first, before pro machines. Past precedent isn't so clear on this though: USB was intro'd with the iMac, and then came with every model in the product matrix. The Yosemite G3 intro'd Firewire, but it took another two years before the iBook was rev'd to have a FW port. However when the iBook came out it had support for Airport, and this was then rolled out as products were rev'd or intro'd. I'm not sure this points to Apple aiming to release new technologies on the consumer or pro without aiming for eventual feature parity. And it seems hopeful we will be seeing all new desktop models for pros and consumers being intro'd at MWSF in January. If that happens and this removable, dockable drive is real, my guess is it'll be supported by both machines ....
Remember lots of those threads in the spring ... everlasting rumors of Firewire II / 1394b / now Gigawire? .... also the news of the Oxford 911 chipset for FW to increase bridge speeds drastically. Remember the third FW port inside early models of G4s? Perhaps Apple's had a 'digital hub' concept or at least elements of it running for longer than we have imagined, and its been external factors such as the long gestation period of viable FW chipsets, availability of LCD / small 2.5" HDs/ and peripheral makers to start doing the stuff Apple envisaged it all doing ...
Firewire is still the dominant interface for mainly computer peripherals and DV stuff, we have a whole heap of other connectors for many other domestic products, (SCART, S-Video, analogue or SPDIF for audio etc).
Is Firewire starting to gain that criticial momentum & acceptance now in the prosumer areas? I'm not too hot on all things A/V & home cinema related, but I think it'll only be a matter of time until we get a FW digital camera on the market. Flash media costs too much as cameras get ever better resolutions, USB is slower and slower. I'm sure you could run an iLink port onto the next generation of Sony digicams, watch Vaio and Mac users dribble, and most other manufacturers start to go down the same route. All that's needed is a big consumer/prosumer appliance manufacturer to take the lead. I don't think it'll Apple though: Sony? mebbe. Good candidate, and helps draw the Wintel world into the party. One other thing on this whole greater acceptance thing: is IEEE 1394 envisaged as part of the Nvidia NForce/HyperTransport gameplan? Will there be a further degree of convergence between Apple and x86 mobo designs so we see firewire becoming a standard on most new PCs?
One of the oft-requested things I have read in related stories over the last year or so is that IF Apple are developing (amongst other products) a rackmount server, then IT bods will want hot-swappable drives .... people have been mentioning this for ages (the whole 'Thing' shebang etc).
Hot swappable drives are du rigeur for many server jobs, so network admins will be very happy if, for example, Apple has got a new 1394 based hot plugging drive available. I dunno if we will see this iRaQ (they built a Qube, will Apple be cheeky enuff to build a Raq too ? ) server or not, but the idea of little 'pods' (for lack of a better word) which i could take 5, 10 ,20 , 40Gb of my media about with sounds great (especially for job-specific stuff eg working in a shared studio environment, or teaching classes with hands-on experience. I know of several people who would love this portability and eas of use). Mebbe this would be useful ...
You know the consultancy St Lukes in London? They dont have fixed desks with their own computers, just loads of 'public' iMacs everywhere and you just log into each one and do your work, access the network etc. I know this could sound like an idealistic way of working, and I'm not sure it would work company-wide, but in a studio, presentation or production environment, it'd be great.
I saw this in various articles and on TV about 18 months ago. So they wre running OS 9, and I believe OS X has even more robust and scalable support of multiple users. Certainly OS X seems to be one the 'enabaling' components Apple has had to get out Incidently I also believe the humble iPod is smart enough in its current form to recognise different machines it is connected to, so you can have a home and a work machine. Many creatives I know also have a mac at home and one at the office - it would be great to be able to port work back and forth easily. I can do it now .... but I have to burn it onto cd, if i'm working on video/audio thats a ballache, if its over 700Mb in size I can always use some other device ...
But, be honest. I run out the door often in the morning. I'm not best organised even if i try to be. To be able to flick, click and pick a nice hard drive away in seconds is what I would like to be able to do. ( I guess there will be some issues with security but I'm sure thats been pretty high on the 'to do' list if a product like this comes out.) Could a removable Firewire HD
Starting to sound a bit more feasible? Stick with me...
Standard 3.5"HD in similar styled casing to iPod but (obviously larger). 2.5" HD parts still too expensive I think, for the capacities for 'normal' hard drives. God only knows how they'll attach, whether you could chain them in some external way. They'd look nice though, hopefully as tough and functional as an iBook
Well its an idea ...
Lastly, this is my first post. Be easy on me ... I'm still reeling that the forums are back after so long
i wrote most of that last nite but just posted it.. wanted to add that thinking more about it, i'm slightly less convinced now ...
Component parts are an issue compared to a standard ATA HD would be an issue, so mebbe it would be an optional extra .... could the device be both for internal and external use? then you could mebbe drop it into a tower unit, but add it externally to a sleek new LCD iMac
So mebbe it could be an optional extra like Airport: all machines get the capabilitly to use it, internally or externally, but its optional ....
Have anyone noticed how when you mount a disk image it looks so nice and white and iPodish/iBookish...
Another thing is how everyone always hated the HD icon in OSX... "is that supposed to be understandable to anyone? Why use anything that looks like an internal disk...?"
Well makes more sense if It can be replaced by a dockable cuddly external disk!
<strong>i wrote most of that last nite but just posted it.. wanted to add that thinking more about it, i'm slightly less convinced now ...
Component parts are an issue compared to a standard ATA HD would be an issue, so mebbe it would be an optional extra .... could the device be both for internal and external use? then you could mebbe drop it into a tower unit, but add it externally to a sleek new LCD iMac
So mebbe it could be an optional extra like Airport: all machines get the capabilitly to use it, internally or externally, but its optional ....
Damn, I'm getting blinded by speculation fever </strong><hr></blockquote>
Well impressed with that post, I am! That WAS a very convenient scenario you wrote out there, I think. I'm currently doing a lot of research on mass customisation, and the idea to not only customise my digitised environment but also the hardware side is extremely appealing, I think. I'd even go further and say that a removable component like the one you describe would be the first in a row: in the end (well there is none, is there?) it could be many components with unspecified use, so that the USER can decide how exactly his perfect work environment would look and feel like. I know that almost any Windozer who is somewhat proficient with hardware can do that already, but the challenge for Apple would be to make that concept feasible on the user-interaction side of the whole thing. I'd just LOVE to see more of Ideas in that direction!
I was just thinking about the whole iPod-user?s backups thing.
Apple has already all the piece of the puzzle they need: network-booting of the OS, separate folder for every user?s related stuff (include. Preferences, ?), network search of users, ?
Imagine, you have OS-X on your internal HD (if you wish or if you have one) or in education or business (designer studios, consultants, ?) on a server and booted from that OS. Actually the Users? identification panel makes a network wide research for users. Why can?t it make a research on an iPod connected via Firewire to your Mac ? Why ? Hum, it certainly can. And that?s the big Thing : you can sale very-low ?Network-Mac? without HD and sales iPod-like devices for every user (the user has a MP3-player bonus ) that they can plug into the new Macs at home, school, business, ? and always with there personal environment. Great isn?t it. You don?t need to charge your iPod with the entire OS, just your user-folder. Mine is actually 7GB big on my PowerBook G4, so is the iPod a little small, but wait a bit and the HD-size on it will grow.
That?s maybe a little Paradise-like vision : more Mac in the world, so more this concept is viable, HD-speed issue, but we have all dreams? Your digital live to go !
OK, it's expensive, but I think this is close to what everyone here is looking for, except maybe an all in one design and an OS you can own instead of rent.
Well I think a removable HD is way off-target. I have no need for such a feature. I hope Apple looks at Iomega's Peerless sales (lackluster at best) while considering whether this is a worthwhile feature.
But, I won't buy another iMac anyway. Nevermind. ( <img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" /> .02)
A removable HD will add lots of expense to an already expensive iMac, and MOST people won't use it.
It also requires that you have another Mac that can accept the HD. If it's Firewire I suppose that wouldn't be a problem. But what many people here are talking about is a world full of iMacs with HD bays ready to accept your HD. Reality is that iMacs are quite scarce, and this probably wouldn't catch on.
In contrast, I can guaran-fu[king-tee that a 17" LCD iMac would be a hit.
Um, Junkyard Dawg, look at the timestamp of this thread. You're joking, right? <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" /> I was. <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />
Comments
if apple started moving this direction that would be really cool. also, why don't they make drivers so their iPod can run off PC's. that would open up a huge market to them that isn't available at the moment.
However, it's already possible to carry around a system on the iPod. Just install OS 9 or X, and you've got a portable OS. At 5 MB it doesn't leave much room for apps or docs, but it's still pretty damn cool if you ask me.
Or you could forget the iPod and just buy a Firewire portable HD...but again speed is a problem. Perhaps Gigawire is the solution?
And Firewire too slow. As I know the limitations are because of the bridge that is used for non-native HDs. And isn´t there FW2 knocking at the door with 800mbit or even 1,6Gbit/s?
But despite of that, I don´t see this as built-in feature. It will only be an add-on. Maybe as iDock. A slot for a device like iPod would not look very nice. And i would not be flexible enough for future devices. I.e. an iCam in the case of the iPod would be awful to handle.
Imagine this senerio:
You ahve a commercial for a cliant, and it's not finished quite yet, but you need to get on your plane. So you do. But you have a 3 hour layover in some wierd city. So you get off the plane, get a cup of coffe, and park yourself in front of an iMac terminal. No HD in the mac save for the system disk, so you pop in your disk. You work on it and when it's done, you take it with you.
Or in a coffee shop that sports iMacs.
Or at your school or university, where funding (for state run schools) isn't enough to allow for enough computers. So you do your work on the comptuer, but TAKE YOUR WORK WITH YOU.
<hr></blockquote>
Yeah, see, this concept already exsits....its called the PowerBook G4. Desktop power to go....
[quote]Before this became practical something faster than Firewire would be needed for connecting the HD.<hr></blockquote>
How so?
FW is already fast enough to handle any IDE drive. The bottleneck in the iPod's disk performance is the HDD itself, not the interface.
I'm thinking that some naysayers are saying its unlikey a consumer model Mac would get something like this first, before pro machines. Past precedent isn't so clear on this though: USB was intro'd with the iMac, and then came with every model in the product matrix. The Yosemite G3 intro'd Firewire, but it took another two years before the iBook was rev'd to have a FW port. However when the iBook came out it had support for Airport, and this was then rolled out as products were rev'd or intro'd. I'm not sure this points to Apple aiming to release new technologies on the consumer or pro without aiming for eventual feature parity. And it seems hopeful we will be seeing all new desktop models for pros and consumers being intro'd at MWSF in January. If that happens and this removable, dockable drive is real, my guess is it'll be supported by both machines ....
Remember lots of those threads in the spring ... everlasting rumors of Firewire II / 1394b / now Gigawire? .... also the news of the Oxford 911 chipset for FW to increase bridge speeds drastically. Remember the third FW port inside early models of G4s? Perhaps Apple's had a 'digital hub' concept or at least elements of it running for longer than we have imagined, and its been external factors such as the long gestation period of viable FW chipsets, availability of LCD / small 2.5" HDs/ and peripheral makers to start doing the stuff Apple envisaged it all doing ...
Firewire is still the dominant interface for mainly computer peripherals and DV stuff, we have a whole heap of other connectors for many other domestic products, (SCART, S-Video, analogue or SPDIF for audio etc).
Is Firewire starting to gain that criticial momentum & acceptance now in the prosumer areas? I'm not too hot on all things A/V & home cinema related, but I think it'll only be a matter of time until we get a FW digital camera on the market. Flash media costs too much as cameras get ever better resolutions, USB is slower and slower. I'm sure you could run an iLink port onto the next generation of Sony digicams, watch Vaio and Mac users dribble, and most other manufacturers start to go down the same route. All that's needed is a big consumer/prosumer appliance manufacturer to take the lead. I don't think it'll Apple though: Sony? mebbe. Good candidate, and helps draw the Wintel world into the party. One other thing on this whole greater acceptance thing: is IEEE 1394 envisaged as part of the Nvidia NForce/HyperTransport gameplan? Will there be a further degree of convergence between Apple and x86 mobo designs so we see firewire becoming a standard on most new PCs?
One of the oft-requested things I have read in related stories over the last year or so is that IF Apple are developing (amongst other products) a rackmount server, then IT bods will want hot-swappable drives .... people have been mentioning this for ages (the whole 'Thing' shebang etc).
Hot swappable drives are du rigeur for many server jobs, so network admins will be very happy if, for example, Apple has got a new 1394 based hot plugging drive available. I dunno if we will see this iRaQ (they built a Qube, will Apple be cheeky enuff to build a Raq too ?
You know the consultancy St Lukes in London? They dont have fixed desks with their own computers, just loads of 'public' iMacs everywhere and you just log into each one and do your work, access the network etc. I know this could sound like an idealistic way of working, and I'm not sure it would work company-wide, but in a studio, presentation or production environment, it'd be great.
I saw this in various articles and on TV about 18 months ago. So they wre running OS 9, and I believe OS X has even more robust and scalable support of multiple users. Certainly OS X seems to be one the 'enabaling' components Apple has had to get out Incidently I also believe the humble iPod is smart enough in its current form to recognise different machines it is connected to, so you can have a home and a work machine. Many creatives I know also have a mac at home and one at the office - it would be great to be able to port work back and forth easily. I can do it now .... but I have to burn it onto cd, if i'm working on video/audio thats a ballache, if its over 700Mb in size I can always use some other device ...
But, be honest. I run out the door often in the morning. I'm not best organised even if i try to be. To be able to flick, click and pick a nice hard drive away in seconds is what I would like to be able to do. ( I guess there will be some issues with security but I'm sure thats been pretty high on the 'to do' list if a product like this comes out.) Could a removable Firewire HD
Starting to sound a bit more feasible? Stick with me...
Standard 3.5"HD in similar styled casing to iPod but (obviously larger). 2.5" HD parts still too expensive I think, for the capacities for 'normal' hard drives. God only knows how they'll attach, whether you could chain them in some external way. They'd look nice though, hopefully as tough and functional as an iBook
Well its an idea ...
Lastly, this is my first post. Be easy on me ... I'm still reeling that the forums are back after so long
Component parts are an issue compared to a standard ATA HD would be an issue, so mebbe it would be an optional extra .... could the device be both for internal and external use? then you could mebbe drop it into a tower unit, but add it externally to a sleek new LCD iMac
So mebbe it could be an optional extra like Airport: all machines get the capabilitly to use it, internally or externally, but its optional ....
Damn, I'm getting blinded by speculation fever
Another thing is how everyone always hated the HD icon in OSX... "is that supposed to be understandable to anyone? Why use anything that looks like an internal disk...?"
Well makes more sense if It can be replaced by a dockable cuddly external disk!
or maybe we're to far out right now?
<strong>i wrote most of that last nite but just posted it.. wanted to add that thinking more about it, i'm slightly less convinced now ...
Component parts are an issue compared to a standard ATA HD would be an issue, so mebbe it would be an optional extra .... could the device be both for internal and external use? then you could mebbe drop it into a tower unit, but add it externally to a sleek new LCD iMac
So mebbe it could be an optional extra like Airport: all machines get the capabilitly to use it, internally or externally, but its optional ....
Damn, I'm getting blinded by speculation fever
Well impressed with that post, I am! That WAS a very convenient scenario you wrote out there, I think. I'm currently doing a lot of research on mass customisation, and the idea to not only customise my digitised environment but also the hardware side is extremely appealing, I think. I'd even go further and say that a removable component like the one you describe would be the first in a row: in the end (well there is none, is there?) it could be many components with unspecified use, so that the USER can decide how exactly his perfect work environment would look and feel like. I know that almost any Windozer who is somewhat proficient with hardware can do that already, but the challenge for Apple would be to make that concept feasible on the user-interaction side of the whole thing. I'd just LOVE to see more of Ideas in that direction!
Apple has already all the piece of the puzzle they need: network-booting of the OS, separate folder for every user?s related stuff (include. Preferences, ?), network search of users, ?
Imagine, you have OS-X on your internal HD (if you wish or if you have one) or in education or business (designer studios, consultants, ?) on a server and booted from that OS. Actually the Users? identification panel makes a network wide research for users. Why can?t it make a research on an iPod connected via Firewire to your Mac ? Why ? Hum, it certainly can. And that?s the big Thing : you can sale very-low ?Network-Mac? without HD and sales iPod-like devices for every user (the user has a MP3-player bonus
That?s maybe a little Paradise-like vision : more Mac in the world, so more this concept is viable, HD-speed issue,
<a href="http://www.dynamism.com/c815/main.shtml"; target="_blank">http://www.dynamism.com/c815/main.shtml</a>;
<a href="http://www.dynamism.com/priusdeck/main.shtml"; target="_blank">http://www.dynamism.com/priusdeck/main.shtml</a>;
But, I won't buy another iMac anyway. Nevermind. ( <img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" /> .02)
A removable HD will add lots of expense to an already expensive iMac, and MOST people won't use it.
It also requires that you have another Mac that can accept the HD. If it's Firewire I suppose that wouldn't be a problem. But what many people here are talking about is a world full of iMacs with HD bays ready to accept your HD. Reality is that iMacs are quite scarce, and this probably wouldn't catch on.
In contrast, I can guaran-fu[king-tee that a 17" LCD iMac would be a hit.