Google does it and its "BLOODY MURDER!!!" Apple does it and "Its ok" I do not want ANYONE, no how, no why to track me. There should've been a way to turn it off.
Apple needs to get on this quick. All over the Internet people are freaking out. Not just at tech sites. Everywhere. And the mainstream media are feeding their fears.
People don't care about the details. They think that iPhones are feeding your whereabouts and personal info directly to people watching you on a monitor all day long.
Good question. I would probably think the same way, but I wouldn't post my thoughts. Yes, I have a pro-Apple bias in terms of what makes me want to post something.
Good honest answer. We all have our things we choose to overlook. I tend to be much more quizzical about issues than some others, and still can admit that some of my questions never make it into a forum post due to my own personal bias. We're probably not much different.
The ones that I take issue with are those that spout a party-line across the board, whether in politics, religion or forums like this. Many of those members have little original to offer other than their anger.
Google does it and its "BLOODY MURDER!!!" Apple does it and "Its ok" I do not want ANYONE, no how, no why to track me. There should've been a way to turn it off.
Google does what? If you have no idea what you are talking about, it's best to remain silent.
Google does it and its "BLOODY MURDER!!!" Apple does it and "Its ok" I do not want ANYONE, no how, no why to track me. There should've been a way to turn it off.
Oh, boo-hoo. Don't want anyone to track you? Don't carry any smartphone with a GPS radio. You know that if they set their minds to it, the police can track anyone with a GPS signal? They just need to tune in from the head end. Want to use social media? GPS.
I didn't give a damn about the google location "scandals" either, so where does that leave you?
What's more, location data doesn't require a warrant. It's not, in the opinion of several court decisions, something for which the cops need to go to a judge for. They go to the "police AT&T or Verizon website" and get as much data as they want. Where you were at what time, when you made calls, to what number and so on. So if you told them you were across town, they gotcha. "Well, sir, your cell phone was right next to the crime scene five minutes before."
Now, a) encrypt your backups. This will make the copy on your computer unreadable. b) don't jailbreak. It would require access to the root directory to read from this file, and an app that doesn't exist -- and won't -- on the App Store. There. "Problem" solved.
Some prior location data is necessary to keep. Why? You start up a program that requires GPS data. It opens, asks you if that's okay to turn on GPS. You say yes, but you're still in the parking garage. The app will crash (by design) if you keep on searching for the satellite for long. So to get you started, the app goes to "prior locations" and puts you at the last fix the towers have for you. When you go out the parking exit, the GPS takes over. There's an API to deal with this data, and there has to be.
I would like Apple to clarify what they were doing, though.
No problem. I don?t mind informing people of internet shorthand but I do expect them to learn it after it?s been stated. MR on Apple-based tech forums refers to Mac Rumors.
No problem. I don?t mind informing people of internet shorthand but I do expect them to learn it after it?s been stated. MR on Apple-based tech forums refers to Mac Rumors.
Lets say someone at your workplace was murdered. Police suspect you. They subpoena your phone and your computer to look for evidence. They find consolidated.db and discover that lo and behold, you were near the location when the victim was murdered, when actually, you had accidentally left your cell phone at work.
Based on this circumstantial evidence and flawed eyewitness testimony (happens all the time) you are convicted and executed, because you live in Texas.
Don't worry I have a good lawyer.
I busted a mirror and got seven years bad luck, but my lawyer thinks he can get me five.
That still doesnt change the fact the file can be used for grief. Its already being used by violent man to track down there spouse and find the location of women shelters. By parents to find out where there teens have been, ... the dangers associated with that file are all over the net, just take the time to read.
One of the things that irritates me about this discussion is the fact that everyone has just sort-of taken it for granted that the location data being recorded on the device reflects where you have beenwith the device. That is, there is an assumption that this data tracks your physical whereabouts over time. There hasn't been any real attempt to understand what the locations that are being recorded represent; everyone just drones on and on endlessly about it, promulgating the story without any fact checking.
Anyone that wants to do so can look into this information and test drive it for themselves, plus they can read up on it before posting misinformation to their blog (AI are you listening?). If the do this they will find that there are tons of discussions on the internet right now regarding what data is in this file, and they will find that it is by no means clear at all that this data is tracking the location of the device.
Beyond that, an honest look at the data will reveal this: most of the data points in this file reflect locations you have NOT been . There are literally hundreds (if not thousands) of data points in this file scattered across a huge geographic region. I did this myself and I can tell you with certainty that I have not been to most of the coordinates recorded in this file. It shows data points ranging across hundreds of miles in locations within a metro where I have not been in many years (or ever). As a matter of fact, the one place I am a LOT (my home) doesn't even appear in the list, nor do many of the other places I visit with regularity.
I can tell you, however, what does appear to be in that list, and that is the locations of cell towers.
Apple hasn't explained the purpose of this file, and it might be helpful for them to issue a press release explaining it. However, based on what I have seen with my own eyes I doubt very sincerely that this information is (or could be) used to track the actual device location.
Publications' like Apple Insider are just fanning the flames by continuing to present the issue as one of device tracking when in reality they have no actual understanding of what the data really is. It is disingenuous at best, and in some circles it would be called 'lying'.
The sad, funny, and interesting thing about all this hype is that Google is guilty of doing just about the same thing as it was released last Friday, but that's barely being mentioned. Everything Apple is the lead on page one, every other company is under the fold or mentioned four paragraphs deep in the Apple article.
I heard these guys on the radio bragging how they're safe 'cuz they have Android phones. People not in the know listen to these types of folks and spread inaccurate info and it spreads like a virus. While Google gets away with it. The press needs to be more accurate and fair in their reporting and stop using 'Apple' for clicks or just to be Apple bashers and get listeners.
Has anyone seen any articles yet as to why a phone would store this information? I am sure there must be a good reason for the iPhone to store cell tower data, but not being an expert, I have no idea what that reason would be.
This issue has turned into a gold mine for the Tin Pot politicians and the Tin Foil hat crowd. Now they have something to worry about.
Apple can let them all crawl back under their rocks by making the collection of the data an option. Of course they will have to make the default NO as most whiny users are incapable of reading instructions to determine how to protect themselves.
One of the things that irritates me about this discussion is the fact that everyone has just sort-of taken it for granted that the location data being recorded on the device reflects where you have beenwith the device. That is, there is an assumption that this data tracks your physical whereabouts over time. There hasn't been any real attempt to understand what the locations that are being recorded represent; everyone just drones on and on endlessly about it, promulgating the story without any fact checking.
Anyone that wants to do so can look into this information and test drive it for themselves, plus they can read up on it before posting misinformation to their blog (AI are you listening?). If the do this they will find that there are tons of discussions on the internet right now regarding what data is in this file, and they will find that it is by no means clear at all that this data is tracking the location of the device.
Beyond that, an honest look at the data will reveal this: most of the data points in this file reflect locations you have NOT been . There are literally hundreds (if not thousands) of data points in this file scattered across a huge geographic region. I did this myself and I can tell you with certainty that I have not been to most of the coordinates recorded in this file. It shows data points ranging across hundreds of miles in locations within a metro where I have not been in many years (or ever). As a matter of fact, the one place I am a LOT (my home) doesn't even appear in the list, nor do many of the other places I visit with regularity.
I can tell you, however, what does appear to be in that list, and that is the locations of cell towers.
Apple hasn't explained the purpose of this file, and it might be helpful for them to issue a press release explaining it. However, based on what I have seen with my own eyes I doubt very sincerely that this information is (or could be) used to track the actual device location.
Publications' like Apple Insider are just fanning the flames by continuing to present the issue as one of device tracking when in reality they have no actual understanding of what the data really is. It is disingenuous at best, and in some circles it would be called 'lying'.
Well you can't use this data to get the exact locations that you have been, but you can use it to find your general location. That is you can't use it to say that someone visited the Empire State Building. However you can use it to say that they made a trip to Manhattan. Of course, if you are really concerned about this sort of thing you might not want to carry around a cell phone because your cell phone carrier already has this information.
When did this happen? You sounds as if finding and using this file is common knowledge when it absolutely is not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by herbapou
That still doesnt change the fact the file can be used for grief. Its already being used by violent man to track down there spouse and find the location of women shelters. By parents to find out where there teens have been, ... the dangers associated with that file are all over the net, just take the time to read...
Lets say someone at your workplace was murdered. Police suspect you. They subpoena your phone and your computer to look for evidence. They find consolidated.db and discover that lo and behold, you were near the location when the victim was murdered, when actually, you had accidentally left your cell phone at work.
Based on this circumstantial evidence and flawed eyewitness testimony (happens all the time) you are convicted and executed, because you live in Texas.
the police could already do that, they just need a pen register request to get all data about location that the cell cos have recorded.
There may be other proof of a phone being left behind, like the unansered calls logs, and timestamps of when voice mails were listened to...sg if a VM is left at 6PM and played back at 745am the next day, the "left it in the office" defense could actually be used as evidence that you were NOT there because you would have checked your voice mail within 13 hours I would assume, and 745 is the usual arrival time...etc...
I don't like what Apple is doing one bit, but this is not a reason to be afraid of law enforcement, this is a reason that attractive females should be cautious about taking their computers in to service centers like geek squad with the creeps that generally work there...
Comments
Apple needs to get on this quick. All over the Internet people are freaking out. Not just at tech sites. Everywhere. And the mainstream media are feeding their fears.
People don't care about the details. They think that iPhones are feeding your whereabouts and personal info directly to people watching you on a monitor all day long.
Time to respond, Apple.
The Internet can kiss Steve's bony ass.
Good question. I would probably think the same way, but I wouldn't post my thoughts. Yes, I have a pro-Apple bias in terms of what makes me want to post something.
Good honest answer. We all have our things we choose to overlook. I tend to be much more quizzical about issues than some others, and still can admit that some of my questions never make it into a forum post due to my own personal bias. We're probably not much different.
The ones that I take issue with are those that spout a party-line across the board, whether in politics, religion or forums like this. Many of those members have little original to offer other than their anger.
Yeah, for you that file needs to go.
edit: Just read the MR article where Jobs did respond.
Google does it and its "BLOODY MURDER!!!" Apple does it and "Its ok" I do not want ANYONE, no how, no why to track me. There should've been a way to turn it off.
Google does what? If you have no idea what you are talking about, it's best to remain silent.
I?m surprised this non-story is still going on? Though I did expect Apple or Jobs to release some statement by now.
edit: Just read the MR article where Jobs did respond.
Link? I'm awful with internet shorthand.
Google does it and its "BLOODY MURDER!!!" Apple does it and "Its ok" I do not want ANYONE, no how, no why to track me. There should've been a way to turn it off.
Oh, boo-hoo. Don't want anyone to track you? Don't carry any smartphone with a GPS radio. You know that if they set their minds to it, the police can track anyone with a GPS signal? They just need to tune in from the head end. Want to use social media? GPS.
I didn't give a damn about the google location "scandals" either, so where does that leave you?
What's more, location data doesn't require a warrant. It's not, in the opinion of several court decisions, something for which the cops need to go to a judge for. They go to the "police AT&T or Verizon website" and get as much data as they want. Where you were at what time, when you made calls, to what number and so on. So if you told them you were across town, they gotcha. "Well, sir, your cell phone was right next to the crime scene five minutes before."
Now, a) encrypt your backups. This will make the copy on your computer unreadable. b) don't jailbreak. It would require access to the root directory to read from this file, and an app that doesn't exist -- and won't -- on the App Store. There. "Problem" solved.
Some prior location data is necessary to keep. Why? You start up a program that requires GPS data. It opens, asks you if that's okay to turn on GPS. You say yes, but you're still in the parking garage. The app will crash (by design) if you keep on searching for the satellite for long. So to get you started, the app goes to "prior locations" and puts you at the last fix the towers have for you. When you go out the parking exit, the GPS takes over. There's an API to deal with this data, and there has to be.
I would like Apple to clarify what they were doing, though.
Link? I'm awful with internet shorthand.
No problem. I don?t mind informing people of internet shorthand but I do expect them to learn it after it?s been stated. MR on Apple-based tech forums refers to Mac Rumors.
No problem. I don?t mind informing people of internet shorthand but I do expect them to learn it after it?s been stated. MR on Apple-based tech forums refers to Mac Rumors.
Gotcha. Written on the back of my hand so I won't forget.
Lets say someone at your workplace was murdered. Police suspect you. They subpoena your phone and your computer to look for evidence. They find consolidated.db and discover that lo and behold, you were near the location when the victim was murdered, when actually, you had accidentally left your cell phone at work.
Based on this circumstantial evidence and flawed eyewitness testimony (happens all the time) you are convicted and executed, because you live in Texas.
Don't worry I have a good lawyer.
I busted a mirror and got seven years bad luck, but my lawyer thinks he can get me five.
That still doesnt change the fact the file can be used for grief. Its already being used by violent man to track down there spouse and find the location of women shelters. By parents to find out where there teens have been, ... the dangers associated with that file are all over the net, just take the time to read.
As long as they have a Mac.
Anyone that wants to do so can look into this information and test drive it for themselves, plus they can read up on it before posting misinformation to their blog (AI are you listening?). If the do this they will find that there are tons of discussions on the internet right now regarding what data is in this file, and they will find that it is by no means clear at all that this data is tracking the location of the device.
Beyond that, an honest look at the data will reveal this: most of the data points in this file reflect locations you have NOT been . There are literally hundreds (if not thousands) of data points in this file scattered across a huge geographic region. I did this myself and I can tell you with certainty that I have not been to most of the coordinates recorded in this file. It shows data points ranging across hundreds of miles in locations within a metro where I have not been in many years (or ever). As a matter of fact, the one place I am a LOT (my home) doesn't even appear in the list, nor do many of the other places I visit with regularity.
I can tell you, however, what does appear to be in that list, and that is the locations of cell towers.
Apple hasn't explained the purpose of this file, and it might be helpful for them to issue a press release explaining it. However, based on what I have seen with my own eyes I doubt very sincerely that this information is (or could be) used to track the actual device location.
Publications' like Apple Insider are just fanning the flames by continuing to present the issue as one of device tracking when in reality they have no actual understanding of what the data really is. It is disingenuous at best, and in some circles it would be called 'lying'.
I heard these guys on the radio bragging how they're safe 'cuz they have Android phones. People not in the know listen to these types of folks and spread inaccurate info and it spreads like a virus. While Google gets away with it. The press needs to be more accurate and fair in their reporting and stop using 'Apple' for clicks or just to be Apple bashers and get listeners.
Apple can let them all crawl back under their rocks by making the collection of the data an option. Of course they will have to make the default NO as most whiny users are incapable of reading instructions to determine how to protect themselves.
One of the things that irritates me about this discussion is the fact that everyone has just sort-of taken it for granted that the location data being recorded on the device reflects where you have beenwith the device. That is, there is an assumption that this data tracks your physical whereabouts over time. There hasn't been any real attempt to understand what the locations that are being recorded represent; everyone just drones on and on endlessly about it, promulgating the story without any fact checking.
Anyone that wants to do so can look into this information and test drive it for themselves, plus they can read up on it before posting misinformation to their blog (AI are you listening?). If the do this they will find that there are tons of discussions on the internet right now regarding what data is in this file, and they will find that it is by no means clear at all that this data is tracking the location of the device.
Beyond that, an honest look at the data will reveal this: most of the data points in this file reflect locations you have NOT been . There are literally hundreds (if not thousands) of data points in this file scattered across a huge geographic region. I did this myself and I can tell you with certainty that I have not been to most of the coordinates recorded in this file. It shows data points ranging across hundreds of miles in locations within a metro where I have not been in many years (or ever). As a matter of fact, the one place I am a LOT (my home) doesn't even appear in the list, nor do many of the other places I visit with regularity.
I can tell you, however, what does appear to be in that list, and that is the locations of cell towers.
Apple hasn't explained the purpose of this file, and it might be helpful for them to issue a press release explaining it. However, based on what I have seen with my own eyes I doubt very sincerely that this information is (or could be) used to track the actual device location.
Publications' like Apple Insider are just fanning the flames by continuing to present the issue as one of device tracking when in reality they have no actual understanding of what the data really is. It is disingenuous at best, and in some circles it would be called 'lying'.
Well you can't use this data to get the exact locations that you have been, but you can use it to find your general location. That is you can't use it to say that someone visited the Empire State Building. However you can use it to say that they made a trip to Manhattan. Of course, if you are really concerned about this sort of thing you might not want to carry around a cell phone because your cell phone carrier already has this information.
That still doesnt change the fact the file can be used for grief. Its already being used by violent man to track down there spouse and find the location of women shelters. By parents to find out where there teens have been, ... the dangers associated with that file are all over the net, just take the time to read...
Told you so. Apple's smugness could come back to bite them in the derrière.
Lets say someone at your workplace was murdered. Police suspect you. They subpoena your phone and your computer to look for evidence. They find consolidated.db and discover that lo and behold, you were near the location when the victim was murdered, when actually, you had accidentally left your cell phone at work.
Based on this circumstantial evidence and flawed eyewitness testimony (happens all the time) you are convicted and executed, because you live in Texas.
the police could already do that, they just need a pen register request to get all data about location that the cell cos have recorded.
There may be other proof of a phone being left behind, like the unansered calls logs, and timestamps of when voice mails were listened to...sg if a VM is left at 6PM and played back at 745am the next day, the "left it in the office" defense could actually be used as evidence that you were NOT there because you would have checked your voice mail within 13 hours I would assume, and 745 is the usual arrival time...etc...
I don't like what Apple is doing one bit, but this is not a reason to be afraid of law enforcement, this is a reason that attractive females should be cautious about taking their computers in to service centers like geek squad with the creeps that generally work there...