The mobile network providers have to store the data, not the cellphone manufacturers. And one could hope that the servers of a MNP are on average better protected (certainly in regard to physical access) than the average's Joe computers (note that this data is stored on Macs and Windows-PCs).
Does anyone know how to find the file in the backup? Not using the application just the file itself.
The simplest way that I have found is to use an extraction tool such as iPhone backup extractor. Once you have extracted the files you will find the file in Library/Caches/locationd.
"Researchers have advised users to encrypt their iTunes backup files to bolster security, as anyone with access to a device or just a backup file could extract the information."
Let me just say that if someone has access to your device and/or computer the device is synched with, that consolidated.db file with your "sort of" location is the least of your worries. They have access to your email, call history, text history, stored passwords, the list goes on and on.
For God sake why hasn't someone taken and sued Microsoft for the continual and repeated exposure of personal information from one of the myriad of security issues they have had?
I'm calling their bluff. Firstly, I'll bet they never even attempted to return their iDevices to Apple for a refund. Secondly I'll also wager that even if offered a refund they wouldn't accept it if it meant they had to actually hand their devices back in.
I agree! Also, as a condition of their filing this case, I'd like to see those guys be required to sign Agreements such as:
They will have to Report any purchase of iPhone, or any other Smart Phone, or Tablet that has that Tracking Feature Available: The Moment the use those devices without that feature disabled, i.e. with Tracking On, those guys should be required to:
Return the Award, in case the win this Case against Apple, or at least pay Legal Fees for Both Sides in this case, even if they lose this Case, or if they ever change their mind about this feature!
Quote:
Originally Posted by sranger
Everyone does realize the the data can only legally be used in court to identify where your phone/iPad was..... It could Not be used to identify where you were at the time.....
Agree
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilgto64
or even if the phone was in the person's possession at the time - ever hear of anyone losing or having their phone stolen.
much like someone stealing your car and causing a hit and run caught by a security camera - the video only proves that a car matching the description of your car with your license plate number was involved not who was driving etc.
hasn't anyone seen TV shows or movies where phones - or cars - or guns etc are switched either intentionally or accidentally.
now when we get to the point where phones and such are taking biometric readings at intervals as well then maybe we will have a case where they could be used as prime evidence - until then it is circumstantial - in fact - now that the word is out - I would not be surprised if someone comes up with a way to spoof the file so that it shows you were places you've never been - or time shifts location data so that it shows you were not where you where when you were there.
I agree! In my earlier Comment, #39http://forums.appleinsider.com/showt...=1#post1854050 I wrote about Tech Experts Testifying. Database Manipulation... There is already too much room for "Grey Area", Reasonable Doubt, for alibi or Innocence!
I don't know enough nuances of this Matter, but I doubt that one can have it both ways! Also, now the Thieves know, before they even still one's Mac or iOS Device that it they are being tracked with Find My Device, and that the Cameras might have already taken their photos! Thus, MAYBE they'll think TWICE before they even consider stealing those Devices!!! And, if in the process a bunch of crack addicts, or other lunatics are taken off the streets, we'll have Apple to similar Tracking Services for that...
But, I am not looking to make Fun of the People who don't like any of this stuff.... Maybe Apple and others can find a way of giving them a choice to turn that feature off? But that still leaves cell phone companies, credit card companies, EZ Passes, ATMs etc. to track all of us... It's hard to be invisible today, and stay off the radar always...
The customers seek refunds for their purchases, because they said they would not have bought Apple's products if they had known of the location tracking. The plaintiffs said they were unaware of the tracking and never consented to it.
What a crock. I guess they didn't bother to read the privacy policy they agreed to the first time they synced their new iPhone
I'm sure all the litigants in this case use cash only and have never owned any cell phone before the iPhone...
I think I'm the only one who thought it was cool that I could see all of my locations on a map by accessing this info with that app.
I don't have much trouble about it existing as some people do because you need my computer to access the information AND nothing really could come from someone snooping through that data, anyway. Just where I've been and when, nothing too exciting
What is so lame about this lawsuit and those posters so upset over the *intrusion* into their privacy.. how bout this?
SONY -- supposedly hackers got into what SONY says is MILLIONS of Playstation user accounts and got your credit card numbers... 75 million customers...so "they" say..
If you goggle "Playstation Accounts compromised" you'll see this has happened again and again and again over the past few years.. But no ones calling SONY to Washington to answer about this consumer disaster that seems to repeat itself over and over again. Oh wait, if you goggle anything keep in mind your searches are being recorded, tracked, and sold to whoever... But Apples the bad guy? This reeks of Q2 earnings envy and desperate paid shrills busting at the seems over Apples RECORD profits... Strange that Googles been hit badly in it's stocks butt. And this supposedly breaks just two days after Apples earnings...it's such BS. Read the SONY debacle and weep at the link below.. Funny how this isn't BREAKING news ??
PS -- you know all those kinky porn searches you do on Google?? Guess what.. Yea, those searches are being recorded and saved. Ya it's true. What are you more worried about? Your past locations or those kinky naughty searches for porn and hook ups you are hiding from your wife??
In the worst scenario it save the location the phone was at certain time. Not what the user was doing.
Lawsuits in USA are becoming ridiculous. Lot of people eager to grab a bit of Apple's cash. Maybe for regular people is an issue but for enterprise could be handy lol, like have a GPS watch dog.
Infowars.com is hardly the place for objective, fact-based journalism.
No. Cell tower data locations are stored in another file. The data stored in consolidated.db is my location with a maximum granularity of 100 meters at a given time. For the entire time I've owned any iPhone.
It makes no difference at all why someone would want to access my private information. The relevant point is the information is private, not public.
Its funny to me that you report an entirely different set of data than anyone else, anywhere... and I find it surprising that your file mysteriously includes information for the entire time you've owned any iPhone, when every technical analysis I've seen states that it is an iOS 4 issue. IOS4 was released in June of 2010.
Good, I'm glad. Tracking people, or keeping location records, shouldn't be tolerated in the least whether its Apple, Pandora, Google, whoever.
Probably this was just a boo boo by Apple. Hopefully they'll get a clear message not to slip up again and other companies like Google will think real hard before doing anything unseemly with user location information.
Good, I'm glad. Tracking people, or keeping location records, shouldn't be tolerated in the least whether its Apple, Pandora, Google, whoever.
Probably this was just a boo boo by Apple. Hopefully they'll get a clear message not to slip up again and other companies like Google will think real hard before doing anything unseemly with user location information.
I hope a good precedent will be set.
See bolded above: so what is it: tracking people or keeping location records.
As I understand it, there is NO tracking of people. There IS tracking of tower locations and signal strength.
Considering you purchased and are using a "smart phone", regardless of OS, could it be that this data is being used to make your phone "smarter"?
Like, "Hey... I've been in these parts before, and I know that the nearest tower and clearest signal comes from point "A" in my little database". I'll check there first to see if there's an available channel to lock on to (as I understand it cell channels are not persistent). OK... all channels being used... lets check tower "B".... ", and so on and so forth.
So please do tell, since the last big uproar was Antennagate (signal loss), and the bitchers and whiners before that were calling for AT&T's demise due to dropped calls (signal loss)... how you might try fix... uhm... signal loss?!
BTW: just curious, but in highrises, does the databank track "z" coordinates?
....The coordinates are not exact, and sometimes they can be way off.
Two questions still remain:
Why would the iPhone store this data in such a way?
How in the world could this possibly be legal?
The first answer is rather simple. The iPhone needs this location database for its Location Services. Apps that tie into location (which is now just about all of them) require this database file. The issue is that this database doesn?t delete location activity that?s no longer needed.
iDB reader Otto shares some helpful insight,
?The location database is basically just storing your cell-tower location every few minutes. The Location API then is able to use that data to provide ongoing location information to background applications that request it.
The problem is really just that the location database doesn?t get cleaned out very often.?
anonymouse, I agree with everything you said about Google and I personally wouldn't touch one of their phones if they paid me to use it. And yes, I think Google should be included in these investigations.
But that doesn't explain why Apple is recording this data.
At least they ask you about sending data on Android. I'm sure Apple OS doesn't have anything like that. I wouldn't touch Apple iPhone even if they paid me also.
Inevitable. The media has found something about apple to rag on, and the BS will keep coming until apple releases an iOS patch. Personally, I don't see any of this as a big deal– at least apple isn't collecting the data (there's already proof android has been sending this kind of stuff to google for a long time now, and you don't see android users complaining.)
– Nobody can see the data but you (with a special program), and possibly a person who has access to your computer/phone
– Law enforcement can already get this data about you
– Location is not even that accurate
– It shows you were around some location, not what you were doing there, etc.
The only way i can see this as a problem is if you have a crazy ex who scavenges your computer looking for infidelity. "What were you doing there?" etc. Or maybe it shows you took a vacation to XYZ. How is that actually damning information? Only a person who has no friends doesn't have people know where they've gone. (127 hours anyone?)
Its funny to me that you report an entirely different set of data than anyone else, anywhere... and I find it surprising that your file mysteriously includes information for the entire time you've owned any iPhone, when every technical analysis I've seen states that it is an iOS 4 issue. IOS4 was released in June of 2010.
No, it is known that this started at least with iOS 3, just that the file was call differently back then:
data in consolidated.db file are public info such as cell tower location etc, right? so why need to encrypt it? can you provide some examples on why parties other than apple would want it?
Because if you're repeatedly in the same locations, you can be fed advertising and the like for those locations. And if the info is sent in real time, they can bug you with "McDonald's is a block away!"
I'm not paranoid and I'm totally law abiding, but the fact is that I don't want anyone tracking my movements. It's bad enough what our credit cards and automatic toll collection already reveals about us. I don't care if Master Card or VISA combines my buying patterns with those of other people, but I definitely don't want them isolating my particular purchases and marketing specifically to me (unless I opt in) or selling that information to others. Was it "Minority Report" where Tom Cruise's character walks around shopping malls and other public places and the billboard advertising is customized to him? That's where we're headed.
Apple prides itself on being "user-friendly". But increasingly, they're not. This is just one example. Their iOS licensing agreement isn't either. Who is going to read a 70(?) page legal agreement on their iPhone? Just like every other large company, the lawyers are taking over.
Let's face it: even if Apple isn't doing anything with the data and never planned to, they blew this one, which could have easily been avoided had they encrypted the file. Regardless of the facts, the image that's out there now is that "Apple is spying on you". And they're going to have to "eat crow" to fix it. And there was probably no evil intent - some programmer probably thought it was a good idea to write such a file.
Because if you're repeatedly in the same locations, you can be fed advertising and the like for those locations. And if the info is sent in real time, they can bug you with "McDonald's is a block away!"
I'm not paranoid and I'm totally law abiding, but the fact is that I don't want anyone tracking my movements. It's bad enough what our credit cards and automatic toll collection already reveals about us. I don't care if Master Card or VISA combines my buying patterns with those of other people, but I definitely don't want them isolating my particular purchases and marketing specifically to me (unless I opt in) or selling that information to others. Was it "Minority Report" where Tom Cruise's character walks around shopping malls and other public places and the billboard advertising is customized to him? That's where we're headed.
Apple prides itself on being "user-friendly". But increasingly, they're not. This is just one example. Their iOS licensing agreement isn't either. Who is going to read a 70(?) page legal agreement on their iPhone? Just like every other large company, the lawyers are taking over.
Let's face it: even if Apple isn't doing anything with the data and never planned to, they blew this one, which could have easily been avoided had they encrypted the file. Regardless of the facts, the image that's out there now is that "Apple is spying on you". And they're going to have to "eat crow" to fix it. And there was probably no evil intent - some programmer probably thought it was a good idea to write such a file.
That might all be possible if the information were being transmitted, but that does not appear to be the case. The link in post 79 is worth reading.
Comments
The telecom act of 1996 required that cell phone companies keep location data and connect to your phone to listen and access the data on your phones.
http://www.infowars.com/investigatio...-spy-on-users/
The mobile network providers have to store the data, not the cellphone manufacturers. And one could hope that the servers of a MNP are on average better protected (certainly in regard to physical access) than the average's Joe computers (note that this data is stored on Macs and Windows-PCs).
Does anyone know how to find the file in the backup? Not using the application just the file itself.
Just use Find Any File and the filename (maybe unpackage the backups first).
Does anyone know how to find the file in the backup? Not using the application just the file itself.
The simplest way that I have found is to use an extraction tool such as iPhone backup extractor. Once you have extracted the files you will find the file in Library/Caches/locationd.
Let me just say that if someone has access to your device and/or computer the device is synched with, that consolidated.db file with your "sort of" location is the least of your worries. They have access to your email, call history, text history, stored passwords, the list goes on and on.
For God sake why hasn't someone taken and sued Microsoft for the continual and repeated exposure of personal information from one of the myriad of security issues they have had?
I'm calling their bluff. Firstly, I'll bet they never even attempted to return their iDevices to Apple for a refund. Secondly I'll also wager that even if offered a refund they wouldn't accept it if it meant they had to actually hand their devices back in.
I agree! Also, as a condition of their filing this case, I'd like to see those guys be required to sign Agreements such as:
They will have to Report any purchase of iPhone, or any other Smart Phone, or Tablet that has that Tracking Feature Available: The Moment the use those devices without that feature disabled, i.e. with Tracking On, those guys should be required to:
Return the Award, in case the win this Case against Apple, or at least pay Legal Fees for Both Sides in this case, even if they lose this Case, or if they ever change their mind about this feature!
Everyone does realize the the data can only legally be used in court to identify where your phone/iPad was..... It could Not be used to identify where you were at the time.....
Agree
or even if the phone was in the person's possession at the time - ever hear of anyone losing or having their phone stolen.
much like someone stealing your car and causing a hit and run caught by a security camera - the video only proves that a car matching the description of your car with your license plate number was involved not who was driving etc.
hasn't anyone seen TV shows or movies where phones - or cars - or guns etc are switched either intentionally or accidentally.
now when we get to the point where phones and such are taking biometric readings at intervals as well then maybe we will have a case where they could be used as prime evidence - until then it is circumstantial - in fact - now that the word is out - I would not be surprised if someone comes up with a way to spoof the file so that it shows you were places you've never been - or time shifts location data so that it shows you were not where you where when you were there.
I agree! In my earlier Comment, #39 http://forums.appleinsider.com/showt...=1#post1854050 I wrote about Tech Experts Testifying. Database Manipulation... There is already too much room for "Grey Area", Reasonable Doubt, for alibi or Innocence!
I don't know enough nuances of this Matter, but I doubt that one can have it both ways! Also, now the Thieves know, before they even still one's Mac or iOS Device that it they are being tracked with Find My Device, and that the Cameras might have already taken their photos! Thus, MAYBE they'll think TWICE before they even consider stealing those Devices!!! And, if in the process a bunch of crack addicts, or other lunatics are taken off the streets, we'll have Apple to similar Tracking Services for that...
But, I am not looking to make Fun of the People who don't like any of this stuff.... Maybe Apple and others can find a way of giving them a choice to turn that feature off? But that still leaves cell phone companies, credit card companies, EZ Passes, ATMs etc. to track all of us... It's hard to be invisible today, and stay off the radar always...
Your assumption is correct. If you turn off Location Services, you are opting out and it is not recorded.
Turning off location services does not stop the phone from storing your location to the unencrypted database.
The customers seek refunds for their purchases, because they said they would not have bought Apple's products if they had known of the location tracking. The plaintiffs said they were unaware of the tracking and never consented to it.
What a crock. I guess they didn't bother to read the privacy policy they agreed to the first time they synced their new iPhone
I'm sure all the litigants in this case use cash only and have never owned any cell phone before the iPhone...
I'm rather surprised that the usual tech sites, including this one, have failed to pick up on this.
Not as sensationalistic and it kills web hits instead of generating them?
After reading about this on the news, I had a think.
Rather than complaining, I wrote a script to tag Places for your pictures in iPhoto.
That is awesome! I'll have to see if I can get it to work with Aperture. Thanks!
I don't have much trouble about it existing as some people do because you need my computer to access the information AND nothing really could come from someone snooping through that data, anyway. Just where I've been and when, nothing too exciting
SONY -- supposedly hackers got into what SONY says is MILLIONS of Playstation user accounts and got your credit card numbers... 75 million customers...so "they" say..
If you goggle "Playstation Accounts compromised" you'll see this has happened again and again and again over the past few years.. But no ones calling SONY to Washington to answer about this consumer disaster that seems to repeat itself over and over again. Oh wait, if you goggle anything keep in mind your searches are being recorded, tracked, and sold to whoever... But Apples the bad guy? This reeks of Q2 earnings envy and desperate paid shrills busting at the seems over Apples RECORD profits... Strange that Googles been hit badly in it's stocks butt. And this supposedly breaks just two days after Apples earnings...it's such BS. Read the SONY debacle and weep at the link below.. Funny how this isn't BREAKING news ??
PS -- you know all those kinky porn searches you do on Google?? Guess what.. Yea, those searches are being recorded and saved. Ya it's true. What are you more worried about? Your past locations or those kinky naughty searches for porn and hook ups you are hiding from your wife??
http://consumerist.com/2011/04/sony-...sn-outage.html
In the worst scenario it save the location the phone was at certain time. Not what the user was doing.
Lawsuits in USA are becoming ridiculous. Lot of people eager to grab a bit of Apple's cash. Maybe for regular people is an issue but for enterprise could be handy lol, like have a GPS watch dog.
Infowars.com is hardly the place for objective, fact-based journalism.
No. Cell tower data locations are stored in another file. The data stored in consolidated.db is my location with a maximum granularity of 100 meters at a given time. For the entire time I've owned any iPhone.
It makes no difference at all why someone would want to access my private information. The relevant point is the information is private, not public.
Its funny to me that you report an entirely different set of data than anyone else, anywhere... and I find it surprising that your file mysteriously includes information for the entire time you've owned any iPhone, when every technical analysis I've seen states that it is an iOS 4 issue. IOS4 was released in June of 2010.
Well it was bound to happen sooner or later.
Good, I'm glad. Tracking people, or keeping location records, shouldn't be tolerated in the least whether its Apple, Pandora, Google, whoever.
Probably this was just a boo boo by Apple. Hopefully they'll get a clear message not to slip up again and other companies like Google will think real hard before doing anything unseemly with user location information.
I hope a good precedent will be set.
Good, I'm glad. Tracking people, or keeping location records, shouldn't be tolerated in the least whether its Apple, Pandora, Google, whoever.
Probably this was just a boo boo by Apple. Hopefully they'll get a clear message not to slip up again and other companies like Google will think real hard before doing anything unseemly with user location information.
I hope a good precedent will be set.
See bolded above: so what is it: tracking people or keeping location records.
As I understand it, there is NO tracking of people. There IS tracking of tower locations and signal strength.
Considering you purchased and are using a "smart phone", regardless of OS, could it be that this data is being used to make your phone "smarter"?
Like, "Hey... I've been in these parts before, and I know that the nearest tower and clearest signal comes from point "A" in my little database". I'll check there first to see if there's an available channel to lock on to (as I understand it cell channels are not persistent). OK... all channels being used... lets check tower "B".... ", and so on and so forth.
So please do tell, since the last big uproar was Antennagate (signal loss), and the bitchers and whiners before that were calling for AT&T's demise due to dropped calls (signal loss)... how you might try fix... uhm... signal loss?!
BTW: just curious, but in highrises, does the databank track "z" coordinates?
Closer Look at iPhone?s Location-Tracking Database
by Alex on April 22nd, 2011
....The coordinates are not exact, and sometimes they can be way off.
Two questions still remain:
Why would the iPhone store this data in such a way?
How in the world could this possibly be legal?
The first answer is rather simple. The iPhone needs this location database for its Location Services. Apps that tie into location (which is now just about all of them) require this database file. The issue is that this database doesn?t delete location activity that?s no longer needed.
iDB reader Otto shares some helpful insight,
?The location database is basically just storing your cell-tower location every few minutes. The Location API then is able to use that data to provide ongoing location information to background applications that request it.
The problem is really just that the location database doesn?t get cleaned out very often.?
anonymouse, I agree with everything you said about Google and I personally wouldn't touch one of their phones if they paid me to use it. And yes, I think Google should be included in these investigations.
But that doesn't explain why Apple is recording this data.
At least they ask you about sending data on Android. I'm sure Apple OS doesn't have anything like that. I wouldn't touch Apple iPhone even if they paid me also.
– Nobody can see the data but you (with a special program), and possibly a person who has access to your computer/phone
– Law enforcement can already get this data about you
– Location is not even that accurate
– It shows you were around some location, not what you were doing there, etc.
The only way i can see this as a problem is if you have a crazy ex who scavenges your computer looking for infidelity. "What were you doing there?" etc. Or maybe it shows you took a vacation to XYZ. How is that actually damning information? Only a person who has no friends doesn't have people know where they've gone. (127 hours anyone?)
Its funny to me that you report an entirely different set of data than anyone else, anywhere... and I find it surprising that your file mysteriously includes information for the entire time you've owned any iPhone, when every technical analysis I've seen states that it is an iOS 4 issue. IOS4 was released in June of 2010.
No, it is known that this started at least with iOS 3, just that the file was call differently back then:
https://alexlevinson.wordpress.com/2...ing-discovery/
data in consolidated.db file are public info such as cell tower location etc, right? so why need to encrypt it? can you provide some examples on why parties other than apple would want it?
Because if you're repeatedly in the same locations, you can be fed advertising and the like for those locations. And if the info is sent in real time, they can bug you with "McDonald's is a block away!"
I'm not paranoid and I'm totally law abiding, but the fact is that I don't want anyone tracking my movements. It's bad enough what our credit cards and automatic toll collection already reveals about us. I don't care if Master Card or VISA combines my buying patterns with those of other people, but I definitely don't want them isolating my particular purchases and marketing specifically to me (unless I opt in) or selling that information to others. Was it "Minority Report" where Tom Cruise's character walks around shopping malls and other public places and the billboard advertising is customized to him? That's where we're headed.
Apple prides itself on being "user-friendly". But increasingly, they're not. This is just one example. Their iOS licensing agreement isn't either. Who is going to read a 70(?) page legal agreement on their iPhone? Just like every other large company, the lawyers are taking over.
Let's face it: even if Apple isn't doing anything with the data and never planned to, they blew this one, which could have easily been avoided had they encrypted the file. Regardless of the facts, the image that's out there now is that "Apple is spying on you". And they're going to have to "eat crow" to fix it. And there was probably no evil intent - some programmer probably thought it was a good idea to write such a file.
Because if you're repeatedly in the same locations, you can be fed advertising and the like for those locations. And if the info is sent in real time, they can bug you with "McDonald's is a block away!"
I'm not paranoid and I'm totally law abiding, but the fact is that I don't want anyone tracking my movements. It's bad enough what our credit cards and automatic toll collection already reveals about us. I don't care if Master Card or VISA combines my buying patterns with those of other people, but I definitely don't want them isolating my particular purchases and marketing specifically to me (unless I opt in) or selling that information to others. Was it "Minority Report" where Tom Cruise's character walks around shopping malls and other public places and the billboard advertising is customized to him? That's where we're headed.
Apple prides itself on being "user-friendly". But increasingly, they're not. This is just one example. Their iOS licensing agreement isn't either. Who is going to read a 70(?) page legal agreement on their iPhone? Just like every other large company, the lawyers are taking over.
Let's face it: even if Apple isn't doing anything with the data and never planned to, they blew this one, which could have easily been avoided had they encrypted the file. Regardless of the facts, the image that's out there now is that "Apple is spying on you". And they're going to have to "eat crow" to fix it. And there was probably no evil intent - some programmer probably thought it was a good idea to write such a file.
That might all be possible if the information were being transmitted, but that does not appear to be the case. The link in post 79 is worth reading.