The last product I bought from MS was Windows ME....what a disaster that was!
True, but irrelevant.
That's no different from someone that has never owned an iPhone, iPad, any kind of iPod, never bought a computer that runs any version of Mac OS X and can't run iLife, iWork or iTunes... but then states they avoid Apple because they make crap products.
If there are no phones in people's hands there will be no point in developing apps for them. Sure windows phone seven is crap, but it has some potential. If nokia actually made some phones like the ones posted on engadget after the announcement I think there would be quite a few noobs who would buy their phones for cool transitions alone. However ms does not make it's own hardware and it's partners are dragging their feet.
Ms should bring j allard back and have him create a phone as good as the xbox 360 he created. Maybe even have a gaming phone like epheria play, but with xbox obviously. Then have nokia build it and put some serious cash behind it. But of course that would never happen.
Should produce some horribly performing and awkward apps, akin to the shitty WINE assisted ports we get from many Mac game developers. Either way, another win for Apple.
Here's the irony: Apple allows one to flow easily between C/ObjC and C/C++ with ObjC++.
Microsoft wanting people to move to C# is neither going to attract ObjC nor C++ devs.
As useful as tools like this API mapper are, I think you are right.
It's not like C++/ObjC++ developers are going to jump all over this unless there is a business case for them to do so.
It does lower the cost of porting an existing iOS application though. So if there was a requirement to support WP7 that was delayed due to lack of resources it should probably be looked at again.
All that said though, this still isn't going to change anything much until Microsoft can get Windows 8 out an expand the Marketplace (and potential customer base) to a few hundred million Windows customers.
Another benefit would be if they could port the Silverlight environment to Android and iOS.
If the same C#/.NET codebase could be used to target Microsoft's platform (W7/W8, W8 tablet, Xbox, TV, WP7 etc) as well as iOS and Android... you might have some developers previously using C++/ObjC++ as their main environment move to C#/.NET.
How is this even legal? I thought iOS developers use Apple's SDK to make those programs. How can they do a 1 to 1 port without ripping off Apple's IP. Sure, their personal code can be ported but Apple's SDK supplied most of code for the UI and low level system calls. iOS and xCode is more than just APIs. Is this a lawsuit waiting to happen? Didn't these developer sign an agreement?
Let's see... Do I want to spend more time and resources to port to an inferior code base on an inferior platform with a forgettable user base? Um... how do I say this politely? Piss off. Microsoft is dead, and they don't even know it.
Microsoft really must do better than this pathetic zombie hooker come on slapstick if they expect to sucker iOS developers into bed.
As is, Cimetiere's overtures look more like a geriatric seizure than a come-hither glance, and there isn't enough cheap whiskey in the world to cover the stench of decay.
How is this even legal? I thought iOS developers use Apple's SDK to make those programs. How can they do a 1 to 1 port without ripping off Apple's IP. Sure, their personal code can be ported but Apple's SDK supplied most of code for the UI and low level system calls. iOS and xCode is more than just APIs. Is this a lawsuit waiting to happen? Didn't these developer sign an agreement?
It's doesn't port any code. It's just like a translation dictionary that can be referenced by the developer.
I love the smell of porting tools in the morning. You know, one time we had a whole app ecosystem, for 3 years. When it was all over, I walked up. We didn't find one of em, not one stinkin' C# developer. The smell, you know that iOS smell, the whole hill. Smelled like... victory.
Wow. What a desperate measure. It's not that they're offering something better to work towards, but they'll try and wrap some APIs. Ugh.
Wonderful Apocalypse Now twist - made me literally LOL!!!
But MS are way behind in the Mobile and Tablet space, this is no time to be worried about pride. I wonder what MS shareholders are thinking? Here there is a market of tens of millions of iOS machines, yet they, the biggest software house there is, as far as I can see, have only three free apps available - after all these years?? Surely the company could earn big bucks by selling quality apps to the tens of millions of iOS customers?
In the past, Mac users were confronted with PC ports that were slow (because of the shim translating PC API calls to Mac), and couldn't offer anything better than the lowest common denominator as far as features and optimized GUU were concerned.
Maybe Parallels can come out with a mini VM for the iPhone so you can run Windows 7 just for fun and save anyone the need to ever bother with the real thing.
Guys, you talk about how MS is here desperate or pathetic and how would an iOS developer move to the Win Phone 7 when he can do new project on iPhone and so on.
Well precisely, of course the person ding work on iOS would not spend time to convert it to WP7, some other guy would do it. And can take the existing code as a template and work on it to convert it. As it is done in all professional teams.
MS has a proven track record of the best dev tools there is. I do development for a loooong time, back then on Amiga and assembly, Atari 800, old 8086 assembly, over to Watcom C++ and Borland Pascal and C, first Visual C up to Visual Studio 2010 and latest C# 4. Used Mac Objective C back in its Carbon days when Cocoa first was launched and now latest iOS SDK, XCode 4. So really believe me, if anyone can judge, I saw it all, MS is far ahead in Dev tools.
This little conversion helper is a nice tool, for me and my colleagues and teams in companies where we work, you do the first version of the app for iOS, then over to Android and WP7, why not when client ask for it? And remember, not all products are consumer market apps, there are plenty of clients (more then there is visible for the first sight) that want an app for a mobile device for their products and services, these mainly want cross platform.
So all in all, don't just kick a tool if you are not the audience, believe me, this will be pretty widely used one in commercial development.
I love the smell of porting tools in the morning. You know, one time we had a whole app ecosystem, for 3 years. When it was all over, I walked up. We didn't find one of em, not one stinkin' C# developer. The smell, you know that iOS smell, the whole hill. Smelled like... victory.
Wow. What a desperate measure. It's not that they're offering something better to work towards, but they'll try and wrap some APIs. Ugh.
The porting tool was inevitable. But I won't be surprised to see Microsoft throwing money at developers of popular apps. They threw money at people who used Live Search, their cashback search engine. Who remembers that? Anyone get paid to use it?
They also tried bribing developers to develop code for WP7 with their native development tools. Seems to have helped, as there are what, 12,000 WP7 apps now? But whatever. This is how Microsoft uses the money from their Windows + Office cash cow. To fund "hobby" projects like KIN, Bing, and WP7...
I don't know about "offering something better to work towards" but I can tell you with absolute certainty that with their tools (not necessarily this latest trinket) they are "offering something better to work with."
From a developer tools perspective, Microsoft is miles ahead.
There are aspects of the MS Tools that are nice. And if you just touch XCode a little and don't use it day in and day out and LEARN it, then you could be forgiven for thinking that MS Tools are miles ahead. But I used MS Tools - everything from eMbedded Visual C++ to Visual Studio 2008 full time for 10 years. I've worked with the WP7 toolset. Its not much better. XCode 4 is miles ahead, but then I've taken the time to learn it.
Comments
No thanks. I don't want any MS product within a hundred yards of my iMac! I won't even consider a Ford car because of their MS Sync crap.
Best
The last product I bought from MS was Windows ME....what a disaster that was!
True, but irrelevant.
That's no different from someone that has never owned an iPhone, iPad, any kind of iPod, never bought a computer that runs any version of Mac OS X and can't run iLife, iWork or iTunes... but then states they avoid Apple because they make crap products.
Ms should bring j allard back and have him create a phone as good as the xbox 360 he created. Maybe even have a gaming phone like epheria play, but with xbox obviously. Then have nokia build it and put some serious cash behind it. But of course that would never happen.
Here's the irony: Apple allows one to flow easily between C/ObjC and C/C++ with ObjC++.
Microsoft wanting people to move to C# is neither going to attract ObjC nor C++ devs.
As useful as tools like this API mapper are, I think you are right.
It's not like C++/ObjC++ developers are going to jump all over this unless there is a business case for them to do so.
It does lower the cost of porting an existing iOS application though. So if there was a requirement to support WP7 that was delayed due to lack of resources it should probably be looked at again.
All that said though, this still isn't going to change anything much until Microsoft can get Windows 8 out an expand the Marketplace (and potential customer base) to a few hundred million Windows customers.
Another benefit would be if they could port the Silverlight environment to Android and iOS.
If the same C#/.NET codebase could be used to target Microsoft's platform (W7/W8, W8 tablet, Xbox, TV, WP7 etc) as well as iOS and Android... you might have some developers previously using C++/ObjC++ as their main environment move to C#/.NET.
As is, Cimetiere's overtures look more like a geriatric seizure than a come-hither glance, and there isn't enough cheap whiskey in the world to cover the stench of decay.
How is this even legal? I thought iOS developers use Apple's SDK to make those programs. How can they do a 1 to 1 port without ripping off Apple's IP. Sure, their personal code can be ported but Apple's SDK supplied most of code for the UI and low level system calls. iOS and xCode is more than just APIs. Is this a lawsuit waiting to happen? Didn't these developer sign an agreement?
It's doesn't port any code. It's just like a translation dictionary that can be referenced by the developer.
Have a look.
http://wp7mapping.interoperabilitybridges.com/
Interesting ...
I love the smell of porting tools in the morning. You know, one time we had a whole app ecosystem, for 3 years. When it was all over, I walked up. We didn't find one of em, not one stinkin' C# developer. The smell, you know that iOS smell, the whole hill. Smelled like... victory.
Wow. What a desperate measure. It's not that they're offering something better to work towards, but they'll try and wrap some APIs. Ugh.
Wonderful Apocalypse Now twist - made me literally LOL!!!
But MS are way behind in the Mobile and Tablet space, this is no time to be worried about pride. I wonder what MS shareholders are thinking? Here there is a market of tens of millions of iOS machines, yet they, the biggest software house there is, as far as I can see, have only three free apps available - after all these years?? Surely the company could earn big bucks by selling quality apps to the tens of millions of iOS customers?
This time, Apple has really turned the tables.
Well precisely, of course the person ding work on iOS would not spend time to convert it to WP7, some other guy would do it. And can take the existing code as a template and work on it to convert it. As it is done in all professional teams.
MS has a proven track record of the best dev tools there is. I do development for a loooong time, back then on Amiga and assembly, Atari 800, old 8086 assembly, over to Watcom C++ and Borland Pascal and C, first Visual C up to Visual Studio 2010 and latest C# 4. Used Mac Objective C back in its Carbon days when Cocoa first was launched and now latest iOS SDK, XCode 4. So really believe me, if anyone can judge, I saw it all, MS is far ahead in Dev tools.
This little conversion helper is a nice tool, for me and my colleagues and teams in companies where we work, you do the first version of the app for iOS, then over to Android and WP7, why not when client ask for it? And remember, not all products are consumer market apps, there are plenty of clients (more then there is visible for the first sight) that want an app for a mobile device for their products and services, these mainly want cross platform.
So all in all, don't just kick a tool if you are not the audience, believe me, this will be pretty widely used one in commercial development.
I love the smell of porting tools in the morning. You know, one time we had a whole app ecosystem, for 3 years. When it was all over, I walked up. We didn't find one of em, not one stinkin' C# developer. The smell, you know that iOS smell, the whole hill. Smelled like... victory.
Wow. What a desperate measure. It's not that they're offering something better to work towards, but they'll try and wrap some APIs. Ugh.
Was it safe to surf the beach?
I can't quite shake off this image in my head of a giant syphon. Msft gives me the creeps
They also tried bribing developers to develop code for WP7 with their native development tools. Seems to have helped, as there are what, 12,000 WP7 apps now? But whatever. This is how Microsoft uses the money from their Windows + Office cash cow. To fund "hobby" projects like KIN, Bing, and WP7...
Live Search cashback: http://www.wired.com/epicenter/2008/05/microsofts-gran/
I don't know about "offering something better to work towards" but I can tell you with absolute certainty that with their tools (not necessarily this latest trinket) they are "offering something better to work with."
From a developer tools perspective, Microsoft is miles ahead.
There are aspects of the MS Tools that are nice. And if you just touch XCode a little and don't use it day in and day out and LEARN it, then you could be forgiven for thinking that MS Tools are miles ahead. But I used MS Tools - everything from eMbedded Visual C++ to Visual Studio 2008 full time for 10 years. I've worked with the WP7 toolset. Its not much better. XCode 4 is miles ahead, but then I've taken the time to learn it.