Unless Facetime is ported to Android too, it will never have a chance of becoming a "standard". You really think Apple will do that?
IMO, Microsoft just made Facetime a minor feature on an isolated platform unless Apple has it already developed and ready for a multi-platform, and works over more than wi-fi, within a few short months. With MS at 80%+ of the installed OS base, Apple can't be timid and slow as a sloth to show they intend to commit to Facetime as an open standard.
Developers have a clear and present option to integrate with Skype, particularly with official MS support now. An open-source Facetime is still vaporware.
You vastly overstate Android's importance as an application platform. Having said that, what Apple said they were going to do, but never did, was release the FaceTime protocol as an open standard so anyone can build a client with it.
If Apple ever actually does, Skype will encounter some issues since their voice and video service only works with their client. FaceTime would be in every general purpose chat program within a month or two.
However, the bulk of Skype's revenue comes from VoIP to PSTN calls. This is an area where Apple has never expressed any interest.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Firefly7475
You're tripping dude
Microsoft owns 5% of Facebook. They have a bunch of exclusive deals and agreements together.
Facebook is integrated into Bing.
Facebook is integrated into WP7.
Facebook is integrated into Windows Live.
Facebook is integrated into Live Mail.
Facebook is integrated into Microsoft Office/Outlook.
Probably the most telling is that Facebook is already integrated into Messenger.... yup, Facebook contacts, updates and chat is already built right into the core of Windows Live Messenger aka soon to be... ahh... "Microsoft Windows Live Skype Facebook Messenger Series 2"
You combine the social graphs of Messanger (300+ million users) Skype (100+ million users) and Facebook (500+ million users) and FaceTime is pretty much dead outside of Apple-to-Apple device communications.
Not that it really benefits Microsoft though, outside of preventing Google getting some kind of control over the VOIP/IM market. Unless they do something special with Skype I doubt they will even make a dime off it.
It doesn't really affect Apple either. iOS/OSX will still get Skype clients, so no problems there. If they wanted they can even still build Skype into iOS for messaging, VOIP and as a FaceTime alternative.
You do realize that Facebook has an open API and has the exact same integration level into thousands of programs..
Microsoft Chief Executive Steve Ballmer said. "Together we will create the future of real-time communications so people can easily stay connected to family, friends, clients and colleagues anywhere in the world."
It already IS the future of real time communications, ballmer you dolt.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider
Apple's own FaceTime standard for video chat has seen great success since it debuted on the iPhone 4 last year.
It has?
According to whom? No third party apps are adopting this and it's completely unusable on 3G connections. Skype has seen great success. Facetime is as close to pointless as a technology can be. My dad has a mac. He skypes me. He's non-tech. Nobody is using facetime. There is no incentive to. It's a pain in the ass and it's completely impractical because of the wifi only limitation.
As much as people are hating on Microsoft in a very big way, you have to remember that, yes, Balmer is a monumental idiot, but he's not the one sitting infront of the IDE. He also wont limit other platforms' use of the service, because if they do, thats a LOT of money going down the toilet and a bad reputation for the Skype name, and therefore a gigantic loss for Microsoft.
I'd rather have Microsoft be in charge of Skype than Facebook or Google.
Facebook? Really? What do they know about business/communication software? They'd slowly dissolve the software down into nothing more than Facebook IM + voice by pushing the Facebook branding onto Skype to an insane degree.
Google? Ever read their end user contracts? I no longer trust Google with any of my information, let alone a private telephone conversation. Their anti-trust cases would pile up to such a degree that said pile would rival the Chrysler building. They already have had (and are still in) trouble with being a bit 'orwell 1984' with their own Android OS and mobile advertisements. Everyone was going completely bat shit crazy over the location bug in iOS, yet they fail to understand that Google openly track you via GPS and Mobile Advertisements with Android, as well as keep copies of any SMS/MMS messages you've been sending (really, read their terms of service), including the numbers of the recipients. That is the LAST thing I want when using Skype.
FaceTime is, like all things Apple, high quality and super easy to use. It will stand on its own, especially when Apple opens up the specification.
J.
I'm not going to disagree with you here, but at the same time, it's not like Skype is difficult to use. In fact, I find Skype easier to use than Facetime, but that's probably because I'm a long time Skype user.
As for the overall deal, while I think Microsoft have overpaid for something that loses money, I think it will probably be positive for Skype.
If we try and put aside all the things Microsoft have done historically, I actually think over the past few years they have done some good. They're using Internet Explorer to fight back against Google in the video format battle, Windows 7 isn't actually that bad from a user standpoint, I think Bing has some real merits, and I think most people would acknowledge, XBox is a tremendous system, especially XBox Live.
If they are true to their word, and keep it multi-platform, and they push it onto the web, Skype could become huge. Personally I think we'll see it on Facebook - remember, Microsoft holds a significant equity stake in Facebook.
I'm not going to disagree with you here, but at the same time, it's not like Skype is difficult to use. In fact, I find Skype easier to use than Facetime, but that's probably because I'm a long time Skype user.
As for the overall deal, while I think Microsoft have overpaid for something that loses money, I think it will probably be positive for Skype.
If we try and put aside all the things Microsoft have done historically, I actually think over the past few years they have done some good. They're using Internet Explorer to fight back against Google in the video format battle, Windows 7 isn't actually that bad from a user standpoint, I think Bing has some real merits, and I think most people would acknowledge, XBox is a tremendous system, especially XBox Live.
If they are true to their word, and keep it multi-platform, and they push it onto the web, Skype could become huge. Personally I think we'll see it on Facebook - remember, Microsoft holds a significant equity stake in Facebook.
Very well put. Microsoft don't have some of the worlds leading software services out of sheer luck, just like Apple don't have the worlds most revered Industrial designs by wishing on a star.
It doesn't kill FaceTime, but it does have the potential to kill the dream of FaceTime being the ubiquitous video-chat platform some people thought it would be.
This dream or reality has changed in the last 24 hours. FaceTime is still only on Apple’s OSes and Skype is still on pretty much all OSes. Until FaceTime is opened up to all there is no chance for it be ubiquitous.
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However, now I can't see it ever becoming the dominant video-chat platform outside of Apple.
Because MS bought Skype you think it will somehow crush FaceTime or you think that FaceTime can’t ever be released to the open source community. It’s already on Windows and Linux and android and iOS and Mac OS and many other OSes. Putting it on Xbox isn’t going to make any dent and surely won’t change a user’s preferred VoIP service on any other device type.
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The last hope for FaceTime to be adopted outside of Apple-to-Apple communications will be dashed if the Facebook/Skype rumor plays out.
Explain that, but first explain why Skype on Facebook wasn’t possible yesterday but now it will kill FaceTime on iDevices.
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The next question to ask is "does any of this matter to Apple"... and I don't think it does.
Apple invested in FaceTime to some extent and Jobs clearly stated they were going to submit it to open standards body the following day. Whether they did that or not is up for debate but the implication was clear.
Quote:
If they want to continue to nail Apple-to-Apple communications they have FaceTime. If they want to communicate with other devices they can choose to license Skype
So you’re claiming that 1) Apple can’t make FaceTime open and free for all, 2) will have to license Skype from MS if they want devices to talk to each other over VoIP simply because MS bought the most well known and ubiquitous VoIP service in world? Do you not see how ridiculous that sounds.
The only thing that has changed since yesterday is MS spent a lot of money which will affect its earnings while others just made a lot of money selling the Brooklyn Bridge to MS.
If they integrate it into Facebook.com then it’s still available to Mac users.
Again, why is FaceTime in any different position than it was yesterday against Skype? Why is it now impossible for Apple to release FaceTime? Why would a free and open FaceTime be less effective than an expensive licensing deal from yesterday?
Microsoft: Fix Skype so we can reliably connect to conference call services! Almost every time I dial in to the several major services I use, I can't seem to connect because entering my conference call code on the Skype keypad generates DTMF tones that the conferencing systems don't recognize. 0 problems on cell, land line or Vonage but problems 90% of the time with Skype. My complaints in their forums and to their support go unanswered.
I'm hopeful MS can add a little quality (hard to go anywhere but up).
Skype does more than just audio and video. It also allows you to call regular phones for a very small extremely competitive price. Basically for $30 a year, I get unlimited calling in North America (including mobile phones). This is what made Skype indispensable tool for me. I'm sad to see it go, since really there aren't any viable alternatives yet that do all these things as well.
Also, Skype unlike any other client tunnels through port 80 (reserved for HTTP traffic and normally open on ALL corporate firewalls), so you can actually use Skype even when you are at (usually very restrictive) work environment.
I had a Skype In number for years. It was the number I used when filling out paperwork where I didn?t want my personal cell being used, my only other phone number. When Google Voice came on the scene I drop Skype In and had never used Skype for any other reason so it was dropped completely. Google Voice does everything Skype In and more, but without a yearly fee for maintaining a phone number.
I think you're giving Ballmer way too much credit.
and steve jobs insists on facetime being available only on apple devices. a lot of people can't afford mac's. my mom is still on a 6 year old dell laptop
and steve jobs insists on facetime being available only on apple devices. a lot of people can't afford mac's. my mom is still on a 6 year old dell laptop
The thing that many people overlook when comparing FaceTime and Skype is that many Skype users never turn on the camera. They txt, send files, links, and do voice. With Skype you can have several chats going on at the same time. FaceTime does none of that. FaceTime is good for what it is made for. Family members who have Apple devices can video chat when apart. It is not made for communicating with strangers or business clients or quick messaging like Skype is.
I have used iChat video for years, and just started using Skype this year. I must say that iChat is far easier to use, but many of my contacts have Skype and want to use it. There is room for both. And both need improvement, but for now I still prefer iChat. I have yet to use Facetime. Maybe MobileMe, iCloud, iChat, and Facetime will morph together there will be a whole new world.
You're trying hard to pick a fight but we're saying the same thing. FaceTime is the very same video client as it was yesterday. It will continue to function the same as it always has.
The only thing that is different now is that it's less likely that FaceTime will rise up, wipe out every other chat client in existence and become the defacto standard across all platforms in chat, and would be even less likely if Facebook adopt Skype.
I don't see this affecting Apple. For Apple-to-Apple they have FaceTime. For Apple-to-Skype they still have the choice of integrating (this hasn't changed) or the free Skype apps (again, not changed)
You're trying hard to pick a fight but we're saying the same thing. FaceTime is the very same video client as it was yesterday. It will continue to function the same as it always has.
The only thing that is different now is that it's less likely that FaceTime will rise up, wipe out every other chat client in existence and become the defacto standard across all platforms in chat, and would be even less likely if Facebook adopt Skype.
I don't see this affecting Apple. For Apple-to-Apple they have FaceTime. For Apple-to-Skype they still have the choice of integrating (this hasn't changed) or the free Skype apps (again, not changed)
Then we aren?t saying the same thing because I don?t see how you can claim FaceTime can?t ever be made open source, can?t ever become popular outside of Apple?s ecosystem, will somehow be killed on iDevices, or any other thing people have stated in this thread simply because MS bought it.
Skype is already so ubiquitous I don?t see much room for it to grow. It?s not like it?s only now going to be ported to Windows because MS bought it. FaceTime on the other hand was designed to released to a limited scope so it does become open source it?s ability to be adopted across multiple platforms would be far more likely than Skype being adopted across new platforms.
So again, what has changed since yesterday to keep FaceTime from being released as a standards body or growing in use among Apple?s growing ecosystem? I don?t see a damn thing preventing either of those from happening.
Apple's own FaceTime standard for video chat has seen great success since it debuted on the iPhone 4 last year. FaceTime support now spans across Apple's product lineup, including the iPod touch, iPad 2, and Mac hardware.
I think the author has an interesting definition of "great success". Certainly different than mine.
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Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody
It could also be the reverse.
Facebook was looking for a video component, if MS manages to force them onto Skype then FaceTime is in trouble. If Facebook on the other hand started using FaceTime, Skype would quickly become a seniors-only Windows-only affair.
Also, Apple hasn't released anything for non-Apple platforms, but they indicated they were going to. If there is a FaceTime for Windows then the battle is truly on and I like FaceTime's chances.
I suspect Apple is dragging it's feet on pushing Facetime outside of it's own platform because there are some upcoming changes...like folding it into the iCloud services (along with MobileMe syncing, Ping, iDisk, etc). I don't see Facebook using FaceTime, which as I understand it still requires Apple's servers to make the connections. The "open standard" Apple was promising was only for the client software. I think it's unlikely that Facebook would use someone else's service like that. They make something home grown, first.
And why would Apple work with Facebook when they likely have bigger plans. Like REPLACING Facebook. They have many of the pieces of Skype, Facebook, and Google, so can they integrate them all together?
Comments
Unless Facetime is ported to Android too, it will never have a chance of becoming a "standard". You really think Apple will do that?
IMO, Microsoft just made Facetime a minor feature on an isolated platform unless Apple has it already developed and ready for a multi-platform, and works over more than wi-fi, within a few short months. With MS at 80%+ of the installed OS base, Apple can't be timid and slow as a sloth to show they intend to commit to Facetime as an open standard.
Developers have a clear and present option to integrate with Skype, particularly with official MS support now. An open-source Facetime is still vaporware.
You vastly overstate Android's importance as an application platform. Having said that, what Apple said they were going to do, but never did, was release the FaceTime protocol as an open standard so anyone can build a client with it.
If Apple ever actually does, Skype will encounter some issues since their voice and video service only works with their client. FaceTime would be in every general purpose chat program within a month or two.
However, the bulk of Skype's revenue comes from VoIP to PSTN calls. This is an area where Apple has never expressed any interest.
You're tripping dude
Microsoft owns 5% of Facebook. They have a bunch of exclusive deals and agreements together.
Facebook is integrated into Bing.
Facebook is integrated into WP7.
Facebook is integrated into Windows Live.
Facebook is integrated into Live Mail.
Facebook is integrated into Microsoft Office/Outlook.
Probably the most telling is that Facebook is already integrated into Messenger.... yup, Facebook contacts, updates and chat is already built right into the core of Windows Live Messenger aka soon to be... ahh... "Microsoft Windows Live Skype Facebook Messenger Series 2"
You combine the social graphs of Messanger (300+ million users) Skype (100+ million users) and Facebook (500+ million users) and FaceTime is pretty much dead outside of Apple-to-Apple device communications.
Not that it really benefits Microsoft though, outside of preventing Google getting some kind of control over the VOIP/IM market. Unless they do something special with Skype I doubt they will even make a dime off it.
It doesn't really affect Apple either. iOS/OSX will still get Skype clients, so no problems there. If they wanted they can even still build Skype into iOS for messaging, VOIP and as a FaceTime alternative.
You do realize that Facebook has an open API and has the exact same integration level into thousands of programs..
Microsoft Chief Executive Steve Ballmer said. "Together we will create the future of real-time communications so people can easily stay connected to family, friends, clients and colleagues anywhere in the world."
It already IS the future of real time communications, ballmer you dolt.
Apple's own FaceTime standard for video chat has seen great success since it debuted on the iPhone 4 last year.
It has?
According to whom? No third party apps are adopting this and it's completely unusable on 3G connections. Skype has seen great success. Facetime is as close to pointless as a technology can be. My dad has a mac. He skypes me. He's non-tech. Nobody is using facetime. There is no incentive to. It's a pain in the ass and it's completely impractical because of the wifi only limitation.
I'd rather have Microsoft be in charge of Skype than Facebook or Google.
Facebook? Really? What do they know about business/communication software? They'd slowly dissolve the software down into nothing more than Facebook IM + voice by pushing the Facebook branding onto Skype to an insane degree.
Google? Ever read their end user contracts? I no longer trust Google with any of my information, let alone a private telephone conversation. Their anti-trust cases would pile up to such a degree that said pile would rival the Chrysler building. They already have had (and are still in) trouble with being a bit 'orwell 1984' with their own Android OS and mobile advertisements. Everyone was going completely bat shit crazy over the location bug in iOS, yet they fail to understand that Google openly track you via GPS and Mobile Advertisements with Android, as well as keep copies of any SMS/MMS messages you've been sending (really, read their terms of service), including the numbers of the recipients. That is the LAST thing I want when using Skype.
FaceTime is, like all things Apple, high quality and super easy to use. It will stand on its own, especially when Apple opens up the specification.
J.
I'm not going to disagree with you here, but at the same time, it's not like Skype is difficult to use. In fact, I find Skype easier to use than Facetime, but that's probably because I'm a long time Skype user.
As for the overall deal, while I think Microsoft have overpaid for something that loses money, I think it will probably be positive for Skype.
If we try and put aside all the things Microsoft have done historically, I actually think over the past few years they have done some good. They're using Internet Explorer to fight back against Google in the video format battle, Windows 7 isn't actually that bad from a user standpoint, I think Bing has some real merits, and I think most people would acknowledge, XBox is a tremendous system, especially XBox Live.
If they are true to their word, and keep it multi-platform, and they push it onto the web, Skype could become huge. Personally I think we'll see it on Facebook - remember, Microsoft holds a significant equity stake in Facebook.
I'm not going to disagree with you here, but at the same time, it's not like Skype is difficult to use. In fact, I find Skype easier to use than Facetime, but that's probably because I'm a long time Skype user.
As for the overall deal, while I think Microsoft have overpaid for something that loses money, I think it will probably be positive for Skype.
If we try and put aside all the things Microsoft have done historically, I actually think over the past few years they have done some good. They're using Internet Explorer to fight back against Google in the video format battle, Windows 7 isn't actually that bad from a user standpoint, I think Bing has some real merits, and I think most people would acknowledge, XBox is a tremendous system, especially XBox Live.
If they are true to their word, and keep it multi-platform, and they push it onto the web, Skype could become huge. Personally I think we'll see it on Facebook - remember, Microsoft holds a significant equity stake in Facebook.
Very well put. Microsoft don't have some of the worlds leading software services out of sheer luck, just like Apple don't have the worlds most revered Industrial designs by wishing on a star.
It doesn't kill FaceTime, but it does have the potential to kill the dream of FaceTime being the ubiquitous video-chat platform some people thought it would be.
This dream or reality has changed in the last 24 hours. FaceTime is still only on Apple’s OSes and Skype is still on pretty much all OSes. Until FaceTime is opened up to all there is no chance for it be ubiquitous.
However, now I can't see it ever becoming the dominant video-chat platform outside of Apple.
Because MS bought Skype you think it will somehow crush FaceTime or you think that FaceTime can’t ever be released to the open source community. It’s already on Windows and Linux and android and iOS and Mac OS and many other OSes. Putting it on Xbox isn’t going to make any dent and surely won’t change a user’s preferred VoIP service on any other device type.
The last hope for FaceTime to be adopted outside of Apple-to-Apple communications will be dashed if the Facebook/Skype rumor plays out.
Explain that, but first explain why Skype on Facebook wasn’t possible yesterday but now it will kill FaceTime on iDevices.
The next question to ask is "does any of this matter to Apple"... and I don't think it does.
Apple invested in FaceTime to some extent and Jobs clearly stated they were going to submit it to open standards body the following day. Whether they did that or not is up for debate but the implication was clear.
If they want to continue to nail Apple-to-Apple communications they have FaceTime. If they want to communicate with other devices they can choose to license Skype
So you’re claiming that 1) Apple can’t make FaceTime open and free for all, 2) will have to license Skype from MS if they want devices to talk to each other over VoIP simply because MS bought the most well known and ubiquitous VoIP service in world? Do you not see how ridiculous that sounds.
The only thing that has changed since yesterday is MS spent a lot of money which will affect its earnings while others just made a lot of money selling the Brooklyn Bridge to MS.
Here is Skype for iOS: http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/skype/id304878510?mt=8
Here is Skype for Mac: http://www.skype.com/intl/en-us/get-...mputer/macosx/
If they integrate it into Facebook.com then it’s still available to Mac users.
Again, why is FaceTime in any different position than it was yesterday against Skype? Why is it now impossible for Apple to release FaceTime? Why would a free and open FaceTime be less effective than an expensive licensing deal from yesterday?
You do realize that Facebook has an open API and has the exact same integration level into thousands of programs..
Relevance?
I'm hopeful MS can add a little quality (hard to go anywhere but up).
Skype does more than just audio and video. It also allows you to call regular phones for a very small extremely competitive price. Basically for $30 a year, I get unlimited calling in North America (including mobile phones). This is what made Skype indispensable tool for me. I'm sad to see it go, since really there aren't any viable alternatives yet that do all these things as well.
Also, Skype unlike any other client tunnels through port 80 (reserved for HTTP traffic and normally open on ALL corporate firewalls), so you can actually use Skype even when you are at (usually very restrictive) work environment.
I had a Skype In number for years. It was the number I used when filling out paperwork where I didn?t want my personal cell being used, my only other phone number. When Google Voice came on the scene I drop Skype In and had never used Skype for any other reason so it was dropped completely. Google Voice does everything Skype In and more, but without a yearly fee for maintaining a phone number.
I think you're giving Ballmer way too much credit.
and steve jobs insists on facetime being available only on apple devices. a lot of people can't afford mac's. my mom is still on a 6 year old dell laptop
and steve jobs insists on facetime being available only on apple devices. a lot of people can't afford mac's. my mom is still on a 6 year old dell laptop
Steve insists... sources?
...
You're trying hard to pick a fight but we're saying the same thing. FaceTime is the very same video client as it was yesterday. It will continue to function the same as it always has.
The only thing that is different now is that it's less likely that FaceTime will rise up, wipe out every other chat client in existence and become the defacto standard across all platforms in chat, and would be even less likely if Facebook adopt Skype.
I don't see this affecting Apple. For Apple-to-Apple they have FaceTime. For Apple-to-Skype they still have the choice of integrating (this hasn't changed) or the free Skype apps (again, not changed)
FaceTime is not free.
People like free.
If Apple doesn't make MobileMe free, FaceTime will never have a chance.
So because it hasn?t been done it can?t ever be done, or did you fail to comprehend what was written yet again?
Solipsism, this will be one of those rare times when I've got to ask you:
What the hell are you talking about? ???:
I'm afraid it's you that fails to comprehend the answer to your own question. You never asked if Apple's faceTime "might someday" be opensource.
Your question: While you?re making shit up tell me why FaceTime can?t finally be shown as open source?
I guess you meant to add "in some future time" to the question.
You're trying hard to pick a fight but we're saying the same thing. FaceTime is the very same video client as it was yesterday. It will continue to function the same as it always has.
The only thing that is different now is that it's less likely that FaceTime will rise up, wipe out every other chat client in existence and become the defacto standard across all platforms in chat, and would be even less likely if Facebook adopt Skype.
I don't see this affecting Apple. For Apple-to-Apple they have FaceTime. For Apple-to-Skype they still have the choice of integrating (this hasn't changed) or the free Skype apps (again, not changed)
Then we aren?t saying the same thing because I don?t see how you can claim FaceTime can?t ever be made open source, can?t ever become popular outside of Apple?s ecosystem, will somehow be killed on iDevices, or any other thing people have stated in this thread simply because MS bought it.
Skype is already so ubiquitous I don?t see much room for it to grow. It?s not like it?s only now going to be ported to Windows because MS bought it. FaceTime on the other hand was designed to released to a limited scope so it does become open source it?s ability to be adopted across multiple platforms would be far more likely than Skype being adopted across new platforms.
So again, what has changed since yesterday to keep FaceTime from being released as a standards body or growing in use among Apple?s growing ecosystem? I don?t see a damn thing preventing either of those from happening.
Apple's own FaceTime standard for video chat has seen great success since it debuted on the iPhone 4 last year. FaceTime support now spans across Apple's product lineup, including the iPod touch, iPad 2, and Mac hardware.
[ View this article at AppleInsider.com ]
I think the author has an interesting definition of "great success". Certainly different than mine.
It could also be the reverse.
Facebook was looking for a video component, if MS manages to force them onto Skype then FaceTime is in trouble. If Facebook on the other hand started using FaceTime, Skype would quickly become a seniors-only Windows-only affair.
Also, Apple hasn't released anything for non-Apple platforms, but they indicated they were going to. If there is a FaceTime for Windows then the battle is truly on and I like FaceTime's chances.
I suspect Apple is dragging it's feet on pushing Facetime outside of it's own platform because there are some upcoming changes...like folding it into the iCloud services (along with MobileMe syncing, Ping, iDisk, etc). I don't see Facebook using FaceTime, which as I understand it still requires Apple's servers to make the connections. The "open standard" Apple was promising was only for the client software. I think it's unlikely that Facebook would use someone else's service like that. They make something home grown, first.
And why would Apple work with Facebook when they likely have bigger plans. Like REPLACING Facebook. They have many of the pieces of Skype, Facebook, and Google, so can they integrate them all together?
wow! everything microsoft touches they destroy ....
But it is as much a shame that Facetime is not free!!
Really, you can see the future and Skype is in ruins? Can you give me the lotto numbers for tomorrow?