Faster Sonnet Duet?

Posted:
in Future Apple Hardware edited January 2014
I hope this hasn't been covered recently. Does anyone know why Sonnet hasn't increased the speed of the Duet that has been at 500Mhz since it's introduction? It seems that the faster G4's are available. Is there some technical reason 500Mhz is the fastest that can be put in the sawtooth machines? <img src="confused.gif" border="0">
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 26
    jobesjobes Posts: 106member
    try this thread <a href="http://forums.appleinsider.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=001202"; target="_blank">about the future of upgrades</a>.



    i was speculating that the pin and bus difference between different generations of G4s might make it technically difficult or overly expensive to use the current crop for upgrades. It was when the G4 broke the 500Mhz barrier that the PowerMacs started using a daughterboard, rather than a ZIF socket, for single as well as dual processor G4s.



    I'd be interested to know how recent G4s, clocked and running on a 133Mhz bus would perform on an older machine, with a 66 or 100Mhz busspeed. Would that and PC66/100 RAM cause a major performance hit if you were to put, say, a 733Mhz G4 in a beige or blue & white.
  • Reply 2 of 26
    noahjnoahj Posts: 4,501member
    [quote]Originally posted by jobes:

    <strong>It was when the G4 broke the 500Mhz barrier that the PowerMacs started using a daughterboard, rather than a ZIF socket, for single as well as dual processor G4s.</strong><hr></blockquote>



    Actually, my impression has been that my sawtooth is not on a ZIF, it is a daughtercard. So the only upgrade available to me is the Sonnet Duet.
  • Reply 3 of 26
    powerdocpowerdoc Posts: 8,123member
    The upgrade cards for mac are a pity, the G4 reach 1 ghz and we are stuck at 500 mhz.

    the G3 reach 700 mhz (and doesnt cost much money for sure ...), and the next chip from IBM will be better, but the G3 is still stuck at 500 mhz for upgrades cards.



    I will say only this : upgrade cards sucks ;
  • Reply 4 of 26
    airslufairsluf Posts: 1,861member
  • Reply 5 of 26
    powerdocpowerdoc Posts: 8,123member
    [quote]Originally posted by AirSluf:

    <strong>Apple has convinced Mot to keep the per chip prices high in quantities less than 10,000. Major break at that point, but upgrade producers don't usually want those kinds of quantities in one shot. So for a lot of the potential upgrades the boards would be too expensive to market once they are above 550 Mhz.</strong><hr></blockquote>



  • Reply 6 of 26
    shinyshiny Posts: 26member
    why do people continue to post this nonsense about Apple forcing/convincing Motorola to keep per chip prices high for orders less than 10000?
  • Reply 7 of 26
    serranoserrano Posts: 1,806member
    [quote]Originally posted by shiny:

    <strong>why do people continue to post this nonsense about Apple forcing/convincing Motorola to keep per chip prices high for orders less than 10000?</strong><hr></blockquote>



    do you have knowledge otherwise? <img src="confused.gif" border="0">
  • Reply 8 of 26
    airslufairsluf Posts: 1,861member
  • Reply 9 of 26
    [quote]Originally posted by janitor:

    <strong>



    do you have knowledge otherwise? :confused: </strong><hr></blockquote>



    The burden of proof is on you.
  • Reply 10 of 26
    moogsmoogs Posts: 4,296member
    [quote]Originally posted by AirSluf:

    <strong>Apple has convinced Mot to keep the per chip prices high in quantities less than 10,000..</strong><hr></blockquote>



    A: I'm reasonably sure that whatever the price, you have no specific information that would verify *why* they are high. To say "Apple has convinced Mot" is a nothing more than a random guess (and actually makes no sense from a business standpoint).



    B. I found this factoid in Business 2.0 Magazine:



    "Chip: 32 bit Motorola MPC 7450

    Speed: 867 MHz

    ...

    Price: $435 in lot's of 1000 or more"





    Surely Sonnet would buy their chips in lots of a 1,000 or more if they possibly could, so I don't think it is cost that's keeping the upgrades away - it's a technical issue. Now, whether that technical hang-up is caused by Apple intentionally making the machines hard to upgrade with 3rd party cards, I don't know - but that's a lot more likely than imaginary scenarios where Apple controls Motorola product prices....
  • Reply 11 of 26
    I thought the prevailing opinion was the Moto was out to screw Apple because of the "Clone Wars". I'm guessing Moto would love to sell to anybody that had the $$$. But they are getting lots of embedded sales and Apple sales coupled with yield issues, they probably don't want to sell to small fry (&lt; 10K lots).
  • Reply 12 of 26
    I asked Sonnet if some faster single-chip G4 upgrades were coming soon (I can't use the Duet in my G4 350), and a customer rep told me the demand was there and that it was just a matter of building the boards. I don't think there have been chips fast enough up to now to entice people to upgrade at a price that would make it worthwhile for Sonnet.
  • Reply 13 of 26
    moogsmoogs Posts: 4,296member
    [quote]Originally posted by Nonsuch:

    <strong>I don't think there have been chips fast enough up to now to entice people to upgrade at a price that would make it worthwhile for Sonnet.</strong><hr></blockquote>





    You could be right. Figure most people own G4's between 400 and 667 MHz...they have to top that higher clock rate to make the venture financially viable probably. Thinking 733 MHz will probably be the next upgrade speed, but who knows...all I know is I don't think I'd buy one unless is was at least 800 MHz which I doubt would happen because it could hurt iMac sales.
  • Reply 14 of 26
    airslufairsluf Posts: 1,861member
  • Reply 14 of 26
    Please stop ruining all the good Apple Conspiracy Theories. Half the people on this board will be left with nothing to do.



    [quote]Originally posted by Moogs ?:

    <strong>



    A: I'm reasonably sure that whatever the price, you have no specific information that would verify *why* they are high. To say "Apple has convinced Mot" is a nothing more than a random guess (and actually makes no sense from a business standpoint).



    B. I found this factoid in Business 2.0 Magazine:



    "Chip: 32 bit Motorola MPC 7450

    Speed: 867 MHz

    ...

    Price: $435 in lot's of 1000 or more"





    Surely Sonnet would buy their chips in lots of a 1,000 or more if they possibly could, so I don't think it is cost that's keeping the upgrades away - it's a technical issue. Now, whether that technical hang-up is caused by Apple intentionally making the machines hard to upgrade with 3rd party cards, I don't know - but that's a lot more likely than imaginary scenarios where Apple controls Motorola product prices....</strong><hr></blockquote>



  • Reply 16 of 26
    marcukmarcuk Posts: 4,442member
    I wonder what price Apple pay for them? They must buy about 2 million a year, Id guess there must be another band higher then 10k?
  • Reply 17 of 26
    powerdocpowerdoc Posts: 8,123member
    [quote]Originally posted by MarcUK:

    <strong>I wonder what price Apple pay for them? They must buy about 2 million a year, Id guess there must be another band higher then 10k?</strong><hr></blockquote>

    You can be sure of this, the conditions are very, very different, may be it's one of the reason why the prizes of upgrade cards are so expansive.

    Apple is also a member or the AIM alliance, so the prizes must be different, and calculated in a special way ( a sort of royalties depending of the cost of fabrications the yields ...) who knows ?
  • Reply 18 of 26
    "There you go. A 1.47x price difference is a little, no a lot, beyond the norm for quantity sales of that magnitude difference."



    Man this a pathetic offer of proof. the issue was whether Apple had forced/convinced Motorola that they should only offer the quantity discount for orders over 10000. Your proof only goes the question as to whether there is a difference in price for lower quantity purchases and higher quantity purchases. This in no way proves your assertion that Apple convinced/forced Motorola to set the prices. Just admit that you made something up and save face.
  • Reply 19 of 26
    airslufairsluf Posts: 1,861member
  • Reply 20 of 26
    Wait a second, you made the assertion that Apple was responsible for the prices were so high because Apple, again, Apple had convinced/forced Motorola to set the prices at this rate. I call you on this and as proof of your statement you offer the fact that there is a difference in price when you buy in larger quantities from Motorola as opposed to smaller quantities. You say that this is proof because it makes the upgrade makers have to charge a higher price for their upgrade cards. I say, no, it makes the upgrade makers have to buy more chips if they want the lower price. It is to Motorola's advantage to sell as many chips as possible. Therefore, they will give customers incentives to buy as many processors as possible. Apple would have nothing to do with this. This would be smart business on the part of Motorola.



    Again, you made the statement that Motorola was convinced to keep prices high by Apple. You have no proof of this fact and your circumstantial evidence can easily be explained by other factors. Just admit you made it up and that it was guess. Nothing wrong with that. But don't make the claim as if it were fact.
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