OT: Even if that was bush`s reason to attack Iraq IMHO Saddam needs to be removed he is a danger to his people as well as others. If Bush needs to be greedy to get rid of Saddam then so be it.
So when should we start attacking the multitudes of other dictators around the world who aren't really nice to their people? The "OMG! He was doing bad things to his own people!" excuse is really flimsy when it comes time to apply it to anywhere but that one, single, oil rich nation.
This really is a an uncomfortable situation ( unlike Iraq ). I'm not really sure what the right direction is to take at this time. I'd lean toward caution and observation for now.
This really is a an uncomfortable situation ( unlike Iraq ). I'm not really sure what the right direction is to take at this time. I'd lean toward caution and observation for now.
Yeah, me too. But Bush doesn't seem to be good at either of those and if the original link is anywhere near true then time ran out. We're already into phase two.
I'm sure there are probably some behind the scenes negotiations that would tip the scales way in favor of patience. But who knows?
Yeah, me too. But Bush doesn't seem to be good at either of those and if the original link is anywhere near true then time ran out. We're already into phase two.
I'm sure there are probably some behind the scenes negotiations that would tip the scales way in favor of patience. But who knows?
" But Bush doesn't seem to be good at either of those "
Why not go by a popular anti-Iraq war litmus test- if this bomb cannot be launched to hit the US directly, then it isn't a threat to address in the first place. Thus let the UN talk it over in the meantime- make some resolutions and such.
Why not go by a popular anti-Iraq war litmus test- if this bomb cannot be launched to hit the US directly, then it isn't a threat to address in the first place. Thus let the UN talk it over in the meantime- make some resolutions and such.
That's why I say we have an opportunity to sit back and observe for now. Before rushing into anything.
Finally some subtantial coverage from a substantial publication:
Quote:
From the NYT
In the conversation, according to Yonhap, the North Koreans said [emphasis mine] that scientists and engineers at the Yongbyon complex 50 miles north of Pyongyang had restarted a five-megawatt experimental reactor from which it is possible to extract the plutonium for nuclear warheads. At the same time, the report said, the North said it had resumed work on two large reactors, one with a capacity of 200 megawatts, the other just 50 megawatts.
My take: we have officials from a country that is notorious for making empty threats and sabre-rattling, saying that all their spent fuel rods have been re-processed, and now also have a reactor up capable of manufacturing Plutonium...
...meanwhile we have no news of independant verification from our intelligence services or anyone else's. I find it unlikely that with all the satellites we must have parked over N. Korea, that they were able to do this right under our noses as we watched...without us detecting anything of real significance.
They also claim to have two larger reactors being built for this same purpose. This I *know* we could verify with nothing more than a few satellite images. You can't hide nuclear reactors of that scale. So maybe we'll get more stories in the coming days verifying the construction of these reactors, maybe not. Until I see it from a reliable source though I'm not finding reason to panic at this point.
So should we worry? Some. Should our government be preparing war scenarios and how we would contain or deal with them? Absolutely. Should the government be releasing that information to the media? No. They should comment only on the diplomatic progress each week and what is being accomplished or not. The North Koreans WANT to see us blathering on about war and holocaust and all that crap in our papers and on our televisions. Their whole tactic is blackmail / fear mongering. It's the only way they can get leverage to attain any of their political goals on an international scale.
Yes, their leader is a lunatic and their soldiers are surely desparate, many probably watching their families starve as time goes on. However, their goal is to get lots of financial and non-financial aid in order to end the suffering and build their nation. Nuclear war certainly will not end their suffering, nor would a conventional war -- and they know it. What benefit will taking over the south do them if they have to destroy it in order to take it? They will still be suffering, hungry, etc.
I don't deny the possibility of another Korean war, but I find it unlikely at this time and I think we'd all be wise to be a little more level-headed when discussing N. Korea. Americans love their bad news / impending doom, and the subsequent ranting and raving at the local bar / water cooler / etc. This isn't 20/20; let's get the facts before we go bananas with discussing "what we should do". Ya know...?
there were television news stories this week on the NK reactor's alleged restart. CBC for sure, BBC I think, and maybe PBS.
US Intelligence sources (footage of maritime surveillance aircraft like the one downed in China recently was shown and implied as the source) claimed detection of Krypton 85 in air samples taken near YongBon.
Kr85 is not naturally occurring.
Only exists as a byproduct of Uranium reprocessing.
Unless the NK misdirection and camouflage effort includes releasing radioactive particulates with short half-life (i doubt their economy can afford to spend it's meager resources on such expensive smoke and mirrors, but we are discussing NK), the most likely explanation for such particles is banned nuclear proliferation.
Exactly. I don't have a problem with people discussing it, but there's just not that much to go on right now. Just because one of our gizmos caught a wiff of a smoking gun doesn't mean all their fuel rods are reprocessed, etc. Some surely has been, but we've kind of suspected that all along right? So what's new? Not much besides the latest N. Korean posturing campaign IMO.
Comments
America rattles sabre..conducts off shore invasion practice with South Korean & coalition of the willing...
North Korea, threatens armageddon....
China rattles sabre against USA ( but secretly China is on USA side )
China offers to bolster the forces of North Korea.
North Korea accepts offer ....
Chinese forces move into Noth Korea under many red flags & lotsa flowers & kisses...
China then kicks North Korean Government out of office. Has dissedent North Korean officer core do the visible "dirty work "
( Kim Jong il...is banished )
North Korea is re-united wtth South korea..
Minimum deaths...no fuss...
China gets nifty new market position.
America decides to forget China's human rights record...
peace rules..at least in that neck o the woods
Originally posted by Mount_my_floppy
OT: Even if that was bush`s reason to attack Iraq IMHO Saddam needs to be removed he is a danger to his people as well as others. If Bush needs to be greedy to get rid of Saddam then so be it.
So when should we start attacking the multitudes of other dictators around the world who aren't really nice to their people? The "OMG! He was doing bad things to his own people!" excuse is really flimsy when it comes time to apply it to anywhere but that one, single, oil rich nation.
Originally posted by jimmac
This really is a an uncomfortable situation ( unlike Iraq ). I'm not really sure what the right direction is to take at this time. I'd lean toward caution and observation for now.
Yeah, me too. But Bush doesn't seem to be good at either of those and if the original link is anywhere near true then time ran out. We're already into phase two.
I'm sure there are probably some behind the scenes negotiations that would tip the scales way in favor of patience. But who knows?
Originally posted by bunge
Yeah, me too. But Bush doesn't seem to be good at either of those and if the original link is anywhere near true then time ran out. We're already into phase two.
I'm sure there are probably some behind the scenes negotiations that would tip the scales way in favor of patience. But who knows?
" But Bush doesn't seem to be good at either of those "
Yeah, that's the really scary part.
Originally posted by Randycat99
Why not go by a popular anti-Iraq war litmus test- if this bomb cannot be launched to hit the US directly, then it isn't a threat to address in the first place. Thus let the UN talk it over in the meantime- make some resolutions and such.
That's why I say we have an opportunity to sit back and observe for now. Before rushing into anything.
From the NYT
In the conversation, according to Yonhap, the North Koreans said [emphasis mine] that scientists and engineers at the Yongbyon complex 50 miles north of Pyongyang had restarted a five-megawatt experimental reactor from which it is possible to extract the plutonium for nuclear warheads. At the same time, the report said, the North said it had resumed work on two large reactors, one with a capacity of 200 megawatts, the other just 50 megawatts.
My take: we have officials from a country that is notorious for making empty threats and sabre-rattling, saying that all their spent fuel rods have been re-processed, and now also have a reactor up capable of manufacturing Plutonium...
...meanwhile we have no news of independant verification from our intelligence services or anyone else's. I find it unlikely that with all the satellites we must have parked over N. Korea, that they were able to do this right under our noses as we watched...without us detecting anything of real significance.
They also claim to have two larger reactors being built for this same purpose. This I *know* we could verify with nothing more than a few satellite images. You can't hide nuclear reactors of that scale. So maybe we'll get more stories in the coming days verifying the construction of these reactors, maybe not. Until I see it from a reliable source though I'm not finding reason to panic at this point.
So should we worry? Some. Should our government be preparing war scenarios and how we would contain or deal with them? Absolutely. Should the government be releasing that information to the media? No. They should comment only on the diplomatic progress each week and what is being accomplished or not. The North Koreans WANT to see us blathering on about war and holocaust and all that crap in our papers and on our televisions. Their whole tactic is blackmail / fear mongering. It's the only way they can get leverage to attain any of their political goals on an international scale.
Yes, their leader is a lunatic and their soldiers are surely desparate, many probably watching their families starve as time goes on. However, their goal is to get lots of financial and non-financial aid in order to end the suffering and build their nation. Nuclear war certainly will not end their suffering, nor would a conventional war -- and they know it. What benefit will taking over the south do them if they have to destroy it in order to take it? They will still be suffering, hungry, etc.
I don't deny the possibility of another Korean war, but I find it unlikely at this time and I think we'd all be wise to be a little more level-headed when discussing N. Korea. Americans love their bad news / impending doom, and the subsequent ranting and raving at the local bar / water cooler / etc. This isn't 20/20; let's get the facts before we go bananas with discussing "what we should do". Ya know...?
US Intelligence sources (footage of maritime surveillance aircraft like the one downed in China recently was shown and implied as the source) claimed detection of Krypton 85 in air samples taken near YongBon.
Kr85 is not naturally occurring.
Only exists as a byproduct of Uranium reprocessing.
Unless the NK misdirection and camouflage effort includes releasing radioactive particulates with short half-life (i doubt their economy can afford to spend it's meager resources on such expensive smoke and mirrors, but we are discussing NK), the most likely explanation for such particles is banned nuclear proliferation.
The sky is falling.
The sky is falling.