I wonder if this is closer to when Apple abandoned serial ports, floppy disks, etc?
HP is no longer seen as an innovator and this is not Apple going it alone, it is an Intel product. I suspect that in a couple of years Thunderbolt will be widely available.
the things USB is good for are going wireless (keyboard, mouse, printer). The things Thunderbolt is good for demand higher throughput than USB 3.0 (external storage, HD cameras, external monitor support). Thunderbolt wins in a landslide.
Frankly, I don't care what HP does, since I don't use their products. Apple stood by Firewire for a decade (and continues to stand by) with almost no industry support; I see no reason to worry about whether HP, Dell, or anyone else supports Thunderbolt.
To my knowledge, Thunderbolt is 10Gbps in both directions at the same time. That's very different than just 10Gbps. And USB3.0 has a theoretical max of 5Gbps, and will surely never once reach that speed outside of a theoretical tech demo. Also, it's not, to my knowledge, 5Gbps simultaneous in and out (could be wrong, but I don't think so), so yes, it's fine for iPhones, point-and-shoot cameras, etc., but give me Thunderbolt any day for storage, HD recorders, SLRs... and let's not forget the ability to daisy-chain an Ultra HD monitor off of that one single port at the same time. Fancy? Yes. Worthwhile? Absolutely.
375MBps is nothing to scoff at.
USB 3.0 supports 3Gbps bi-directional communication in Super Speed mode (aka 3.0 to 3.0). USB is usable in hub configuirations and is backward compatible with billions of devices that already exist. There is no reasonable way to compare USB to LightPeak. LP is an evolution in communication protocols but there is no way to know if it will take off or not. E-SATA certainly did not.
HP is making a strategic decision to push back support of a new protocol till they can see if the market will support it or not. I think it's as sound a decision as Apple's to blaze the trail forward. Time will tell if LP is a usable tech or not. Right now it's looking as though it's trying to tie together functionality that Intel and Apple both don't hold any sway over. If ATI and Nvidia jump on board or they can get Western Digital and Seagate on board then we'll actually have something.
The thing is, if not many companies are using it -- not just PC's but companies that make HD Recorders and external hard drives don't support it, then why should a company like HP support it?
Because it is compatible with USB 3.0, whereas the reverse can't be said.
Those who compare USB 3.0 to Thunderbolt obviously have zero understanding of the technologies, they are completely different.
Firewire and USB 2 were used for essentially the same purpose, pulling and pushing data to and from devices. Thunderbolt however has much greater potential due to its speed and architecture, such as driving multiple monitors. The new iMacs can drive two for example.
all the more power to thunderbolt. having said that firewire had a huge speed advantage over usb, AND could daisy chain computers and drives which is akin to daisy chaining monitors, and usb couldn't do that.
To my knowledge, Thunderbolt is 10Gbps in both directions at the same time. That's very different than just 10Gbps. And USB3.0 has a theoretical max of 5Gbps, and will surely never once reach that speed outside of a theoretical tech demo. Also, it's not, to my knowledge, 5Gbps simultaneous in and out (could be wrong, but I don't think so), so yes, it's fine for iPhones, point-and-shoot cameras, etc., but give me Thunderbolt any day for storage, HD recorders, SLRs... and let's not forget the ability to daisy-chain an Ultra HD monitor off of that one single port at the same time. Fancy? Yes. Worthwhile? Absolutely.
*most* people who buy HP's computers don't buy external HDs or have high-end DSLRs or external monitors. It's that simple. HP might include TB as an option on a high-end machine, but it will never be standard. Their customers just don't want/need it. Apple's customers are very different than HP's customers.
all the more power to thunderbolt. having said that firewire had a huge speed advantage over usb, AND could daisy chain computers and drives which is akin to daisy chaining monitors, and usb couldn't do that.
Further to my comments about the HP of old - when engineers were still in charge, HP produced the very best communications port bar none - GPIB (IEEE488)! Nothing compared in any measure accept in cost. To put that into context, the state of the art for alternatives was... RS232!
GPIB could be daisy chained too.
In those days, HP ruled in technical computing, no one else came close.
Many of HP's printers are ethernet and WiFi enabled anyway. If Apple wants to encourage people to use Thunderbolt then they should add it to their Airport routers too, so that one can attach a thunderbolt printer to their network.
Btw: First printer manufacturer to adopt USB was Epson.
Many of HP's printers are ethernet and WiFi enabled anyway. If Apple wants to encourage people to use Thunderbolt then they should add it to their Airport routers too, so that one can attach a thunderbolt printer to their network.
Btw: First printer manufacturer to adopt USB was Epson.
a thunderbolt printer? Overkill much? If your printer isn't already wireless, then USB 2.0 is plenty sufficient.
HP sticks with USB 3.0... Quelle surprise! Why go fast when you can go slow as they always say! Of course their printers are pretty slow (they're good, but slow)
Once Memjet Technology releases the new line of commercial and home printers on America's markets through their partners, HP will no longer be in the printing business and if they don't get up to speed, they won't be in the laptop business any more either.
I'm chomping at the bit for a Memjet printer... his res inkjet, 60 pages a minute full color, and refill your own cartridges on the cheap rather than buying OEM cartridges from HP!!! The first printer is out in China and coming here soon if the Gods are willing!!!
The two channels in each USB 3 link are still master/slave and so won't perform nearly as well. The only real innovation is the ability of a slave to poll the master, hardly an innovation at all. \
Same thing happened when Apple introduced Firewire 400, then 800. No PC company wanted to support it. But then people started buying things like iPods and portable hard-drives and those companies didn't have a choice. Apple just needs to push this technology further and show the real value from having such speeds, HP will run back on broken legs.
a thunderbolt printer? Overkill much? If your printer isn't already wireless, then USB 2.0 is plenty sufficient.
Not necessarily for speed, but for removing USB from laptops altogether and sticking with one port style. I guess Apple will also have to convert their mice and keyboards too \
I'm amazed so many are looking at Thunderbot like it's FireWire simply because it is supported by Apple. Don't forget that Apple was the first major vendor to go all in with USB and that seems to have been somewhat successful.
I'm amazed so many are looking at Thunderbot like it's FireWire simply because it is supported by Apple. Don't forget that Apple was the first major vendor to go all in with USB and that seems to have been somewhat successful.
Comments
HP is no longer seen as an innovator and this is not Apple going it alone, it is an Intel product. I suspect that in a couple of years Thunderbolt will be widely available.
the things USB is good for are going wireless (keyboard, mouse, printer). The things Thunderbolt is good for demand higher throughput than USB 3.0 (external storage, HD cameras, external monitor support). Thunderbolt wins in a landslide.
Frankly, I don't care what HP does, since I don't use their products. Apple stood by Firewire for a decade (and continues to stand by) with almost no industry support; I see no reason to worry about whether HP, Dell, or anyone else supports Thunderbolt.
Absolutely!
To my knowledge, Thunderbolt is 10Gbps in both directions at the same time. That's very different than just 10Gbps. And USB3.0 has a theoretical max of 5Gbps, and will surely never once reach that speed outside of a theoretical tech demo. Also, it's not, to my knowledge, 5Gbps simultaneous in and out (could be wrong, but I don't think so), so yes, it's fine for iPhones, point-and-shoot cameras, etc., but give me Thunderbolt any day for storage, HD recorders, SLRs... and let's not forget the ability to daisy-chain an Ultra HD monitor off of that one single port at the same time. Fancy? Yes. Worthwhile? Absolutely.
375MBps is nothing to scoff at.
USB 3.0 supports 3Gbps bi-directional communication in Super Speed mode (aka 3.0 to 3.0). USB is usable in hub configuirations and is backward compatible with billions of devices that already exist. There is no reasonable way to compare USB to LightPeak. LP is an evolution in communication protocols but there is no way to know if it will take off or not. E-SATA certainly did not.
HP is making a strategic decision to push back support of a new protocol till they can see if the market will support it or not. I think it's as sound a decision as Apple's to blaze the trail forward. Time will tell if LP is a usable tech or not. Right now it's looking as though it's trying to tie together functionality that Intel and Apple both don't hold any sway over. If ATI and Nvidia jump on board or they can get Western Digital and Seagate on board then we'll actually have something.
The thing is, if not many companies are using it -- not just PC's but companies that make HD Recorders and external hard drives don't support it, then why should a company like HP support it?
Because it is compatible with USB 3.0, whereas the reverse can't be said.
Those who compare USB 3.0 to Thunderbolt obviously have zero understanding of the technologies, they are completely different.
Firewire and USB 2 were used for essentially the same purpose, pulling and pushing data to and from devices. Thunderbolt however has much greater potential due to its speed and architecture, such as driving multiple monitors. The new iMacs can drive two for example.
all the more power to thunderbolt. having said that firewire had a huge speed advantage over usb, AND could daisy chain computers and drives which is akin to daisy chaining monitors, and usb couldn't do that.
Because it is compatible with USB 3.0, whereas the reverse can't be said.
Those who compare USB 3.0 to Thunderbolt obviously have zero understanding of the technologies, they are completely different.
amen.
To my knowledge, Thunderbolt is 10Gbps in both directions at the same time. That's very different than just 10Gbps. And USB3.0 has a theoretical max of 5Gbps, and will surely never once reach that speed outside of a theoretical tech demo. Also, it's not, to my knowledge, 5Gbps simultaneous in and out (could be wrong, but I don't think so), so yes, it's fine for iPhones, point-and-shoot cameras, etc., but give me Thunderbolt any day for storage, HD recorders, SLRs... and let's not forget the ability to daisy-chain an Ultra HD monitor off of that one single port at the same time. Fancy? Yes. Worthwhile? Absolutely.
USB 3.0 is Full Duplex.
all the more power to thunderbolt. having said that firewire had a huge speed advantage over usb, AND could daisy chain computers and drives which is akin to daisy chaining monitors, and usb couldn't do that.
Further to my comments about the HP of old - when engineers were still in charge, HP produced the very best communications port bar none - GPIB (IEEE488)! Nothing compared in any measure accept in cost. To put that into context, the state of the art for alternatives was... RS232!
GPIB could be daisy chained too.
In those days, HP ruled in technical computing, no one else came close.
Again - gone with Taligent.
Btw: First printer manufacturer to adopt USB was Epson.
Many of HP's printers are ethernet and WiFi enabled anyway. If Apple wants to encourage people to use Thunderbolt then they should add it to their Airport routers too, so that one can attach a thunderbolt printer to their network.
Btw: First printer manufacturer to adopt USB was Epson.
a thunderbolt printer? Overkill much? If your printer isn't already wireless, then USB 2.0 is plenty sufficient.
Once Memjet Technology releases the new line of commercial and home printers on America's markets through their partners, HP will no longer be in the printing business and if they don't get up to speed, they won't be in the laptop business any more either.
I'm chomping at the bit for a Memjet printer... his res inkjet, 60 pages a minute full color, and refill your own cartridges on the cheap rather than buying OEM cartridges from HP!!! The first printer is out in China and coming here soon if the Gods are willing!!!
USB 3.0 is Full Duplex.
The two channels in each USB 3 link are still master/slave and so won't perform nearly as well. The only real innovation is the ability of a slave to poll the master, hardly an innovation at all.
a thunderbolt printer? Overkill much? If your printer isn't already wireless, then USB 2.0 is plenty sufficient.
Not necessarily for speed, but for removing USB from laptops altogether and sticking with one port style. I guess Apple will also have to convert their mice and keyboards too
I'm amazed so many are looking at Thunderbot like it's FireWire simply because it is supported by Apple. Don't forget that Apple was the first major vendor to go all in with USB and that seems to have been somewhat successful.
Great point.