30% of Free App (which is what Facebook charges for their current iPhone App) is still zero. So I don't think that would be Facebook's concern. I don't think any of the iOS Apple developers are going to jump the ship and go back to WebApps just because they would have o give 30% to Apple. When WebApps was the only way on iPhone, the developers complained and asked for a native support as they knew it would have lot richer capability.
BTW, Google is delivering WebApps based app for iPhone. The GUI is rich, but interaction and response is pretty sad. They just pop you into the browser - I rarely use it.
What you may not understand is that Facebook users spend tons of time playing games within Facebook. And while people are playing games, ads are displayed on the screen. But these games are all (?) written in Flash. So this little revenue stream is not available to Facebook on the iPlatfoms.
This HTML 5 idea is to allow this revenue stream to become available again to Facebook.
And for those who are not paying attention, and I know all the fanboys will say "Microsoft who dat!?", but those guys in Redmond are investing a ton in pefecting HTML 5 rendering and HTML 5 authoring tools. That's good I think because we will soon be able to run any app, not just those Steve approves of, on our iDevices. Of course Steve may decide to not support HTML 5. Time will tell how this next battle plays out.
it's funny how you mentioned that Microsoft is pushing HTML5. I think Safari has been supporting HTML5 for a while and Firefox even longer. Hmmm! I wonder what MS has to say about video support of HTML5 - I guess they are pushing SilverLight still. Yes, IE9 has support for HTML5, but not completely. I wonder how much of HTML5 is supported on MS properties also.
"Here we have the world?s most comprehensive database about people, their relationships, their names, their addresses, their locations, their communications with each other, and their relatives, all sitting within the United States, all accessible to US Intelligence.?:
Who? Really? You don't realize how popular it is with just about everyone with a computer and internet access? I'll give you a hint: it's freaking HUGE.
Not if people keep buying iOS devices. App store exists to sell hardware. If the number of apps decreases then the cost of maintaining these apps will decrease. Apples 90% of profit is from hardware sales. I fail to see how in any scenario how Apple will hurt.
If html5 apps get so good that they are as good as native apps thats still good for apple. They can slowly shut down the app store forget the 30 percent cut and sell loads of hardware.
Quote:
Originally Posted by guch20
This could hurt Apple if developers see it as a way to avoid giving Apple their 30% cut. They could either develop their own HTML5 webapps or they could join up with Facebook (a large and influential internet company). If enough developers do it, Apple could be hurting.
This could hurt Apple if developers see it as a way to avoid giving Apple their 30% cut. They could either develop their own HTML5 webapps or they could join up with Facebook (a large and influential internet company). If enough developers do it, Apple could be hurting.
It could, if the revenue generated by the App Store was significant to Apple. As it stands, the revenue is a drop in the bucket compared to hardware revenue, and according to Apple only serves to cover the cost of running the store.
The iTunes Music Store, the App Store... these are all just value-adding features that create a rich ecosystem that hook people on Apple's hardware. Having HTML5 webapps available on iOS devices doesn't remove any value; if anything, it adds it, as it reduces the "it doesn't have Flash" argument.
What you may not understand is that Facebook users spend tons of time playing games within Facebook. And while people are playing games, ads are displayed on the screen. But these games are all (?) written in Flash. So this little revenue stream is not available to Facebook on the iPlatfoms.
This HTML 5 idea is to allow this revenue stream to become available again to Facebook.
Yes, people do play games on Facebook and I don't think that is stream of revenue goes to Zynga and other game developers for Facebook. But, if you think they are moving to HTML 5 for lack of Flash on iOS devices, than they are showing that middle finger to Adobe and not Apple! They basically are validating what Apple has been saying all along. Again, what does that have to do with the real "conspiracy" story about non-native Apps.
And for those who are not paying attention, and I know all the fanboys will say "Microsoft who dat!?", but those guys in Redmond are investing a ton in pefecting HTML 5 rendering and HTML 5 authoring tools. That's good I think because we will soon be able to run any app, not just those Steve approves of, on our iDevices. Of course Steve may decide to not support HTML 5. Time will tell how this next battle plays out.
You realize that Apple has been actively pushing the HTML5 standard for several years, releasing the WebKit engine and promoting Canvas and h.264 playback?
Apple WANTS to see HTML5 succeed. Before the App Store, Apple was promoting webapps; they just weren't fully baked yet, and developers and the consumer market have gravitated to local apps.
Not if people keep buying iOS devices. App store exists to sell hardware. If the number of apps decreases then the cost of maintaining these apps will decrease. Apples 90% of profit is from hardware sales. I fail to see how in any scenario how Apple will hurt.
If html5 apps get so good that they are as good as native apps thats still good for apple. They can slowly shut down the app store forget the 30 percent cut and sell loads of hardware.
One quick thing: What sets Apple's mobile products apart for many people is the vibrant and varied App Store. If those apps are all available as web apps instead of native apps and are available to Android/Windows/HP/Blackberry users, what's going to keep anyone besides diehards buying Apple products? Sure they make great stuff and have a great ecosystem, but if the apps are available everywhere, there's nothing really setting them apart, so hardware sales will suffer.
It could, if the revenue generated by the App Store was significant to Apple. As it stands, the revenue is a drop in the bucket compared to hardware revenue, and according to Apple only serves to cover the cost of running the store.
The iTunes Music Store, the App Store... these are all just value-adding features that create a rich ecosystem that hook people on Apple's hardware. Having HTML5 webapps available on iOS devices doesn't remove any value; if anything, it adds it, as it reduces the "it doesn't have Flash" argument.
As I stated to someone else, the problem is that if Facebook and other developers begin chasing after the web app dream and ditch native apps, these web apps will be available to all mobile users, which gives Apple nothing to differentiate itself, which will indeed hurt hardware sales.
In the end, no matter where you stand on this, i think we can all agree this is good news for one reason: Flash is officially breathing its last slow, painful, wheezing breath.
You realize that Apple has been actively pushing the HTML5 standard for several years, releasing the WebKit engine and promoting Canvas and h.264 playback?
Apple WANTS to see HTML5 succeed. Before the App Store, Apple was promoting webapps; they just weren't fully baked yet, and developers and the consumer market have gravitated to local apps.
Yes, people do play games on Facebook and I don't think that is stream of revenue goes to Zynga and other game developers for Facebook. But, if you think they are moving to HTML 5 for lack of Flash on iOS devices, than they are showing that middle finger to Adobe and not Apple! They basically are validating what Apple has been saying all along. Again, what does that have to do with the real "conspiracy" story about non-native Apps.
it has nothing to do with a conspiracy theory . it has to do with facebook controlling their destiny on ios.
it's funny how you mentioned that Microsoft is pushing HTML5. I think Safari has been supporting HTML5 for a while and Firefox even longer. Hmmm! I wonder what MS has to say about video support of HTML5 - I guess they are pushing SilverLight still. Yes, IE9 has support for HTML5, but not completely. I wonder how much of HTML5 is supported on MS properties also.
this is not about who did what in the past re html 5. it is about how the landscape is changing right now.
As I stated to someone else, the problem is that if Facebook and other developers begin chasing after the web app dream and ditch native apps, these web apps will be available to all mobile users, which gives Apple nothing to differentiate itself, which will indeed hurt hardware sales.
First of all, HTML5 web apps were to replaced native apps, than all of the mobile platforms who shut down there app stores (Apple (iOS), Google (Android), Microsoft (WP7)) and there will be no differentiator. Secondly, from what I know HTML5 does not support gestures which can one of the key differentiators. HTML5 doe not support accelerometer. So, even if HTML5 can get some richness in application you are not going to get the bang without using the native Apps and there is no way in world the games are going to be rich using HTML5. Trust me, I played Angry Bird in Google Chrome browser (I assume they were using HTML5 animation, but I might be wrong) and the experience is just not the same as on my iPhone/iPad. And Angry Bird is not super graphic-rich game.
One quick thing: What sets Apple's mobile products apart for many people is the vibrant and varied App Store. If those apps are all available as web apps instead of native apps and are available to Android/Windows/HP/Blackberry users, what's going to keep anyone besides diehards buying Apple products? Sure they make great stuff and have a great ecosystem, but if the apps are available everywhere, there's nothing really setting them apart, so hardware sales will suffer.
First of all, HTML5 web apps were to replaced native apps, than all of the mobile platforms who shut down there app stores (Apple (iOS), Google (Android), Microsoft (WP7)) and there will be no differentiator. Secondly, from what I know HTML5 does not support gestures which can one of the key differentiators. HTML5 doe not support accelerometer. So, even if HTML5 can get some richness in application you are not going to get the bang without using the native Apps and there is no way in world the games are going to be rich using HTML5. Trust me, I played Angry Bird in Google Chrome browser (I assume they were using HTML5 animation, but I might be wrong) and the experience is just not the same as on my iPhone/iPad. And Angry Bird is not super graphic-rich game.
To your first point, that's exactly what I was saying. Without something to set platforms apart, Apple would be hurting because they wouldn't have the App Store to lean on to encourage sales.
Your second point in an excellent one. The lack of gesture support (thus far) and accelerometer/gyroscope support was something I had not even thought of. That would prevent a large number of developers ditching native apps -- at least until those things are integrated into HTML5 (if that's even possible).
it has nothing to do with a conspiracy theory . it has to do with facebook controlling their destiny on ios.
Like I explained earlier why Facebook would want to go this path of using HTML5. But, just because FB is going one way (or bringing in 80 or so developer to same path as story mentioned), you are not going to find all the developers jumping on this FB wagon. Can't say enough - For Apple, this is a moot point!
Comments
30% of Free App (which is what Facebook charges for their current iPhone App) is still zero. So I don't think that would be Facebook's concern. I don't think any of the iOS Apple developers are going to jump the ship and go back to WebApps just because they would have o give 30% to Apple. When WebApps was the only way on iPhone, the developers complained and asked for a native support as they knew it would have lot richer capability.
BTW, Google is delivering WebApps based app for iPhone. The GUI is rich, but interaction and response is pretty sad. They just pop you into the browser - I rarely use it.
What you may not understand is that Facebook users spend tons of time playing games within Facebook. And while people are playing games, ads are displayed on the screen. But these games are all (?) written in Flash. So this little revenue stream is not available to Facebook on the iPlatfoms.
This HTML 5 idea is to allow this revenue stream to become available again to Facebook.
Agree.
And for those who are not paying attention, and I know all the fanboys will say "Microsoft who dat!?", but those guys in Redmond are investing a ton in pefecting HTML 5 rendering and HTML 5 authoring tools. That's good I think because we will soon be able to run any app, not just those Steve approves of, on our iDevices. Of course Steve may decide to not support HTML 5. Time will tell how this next battle plays out.
it's funny how you mentioned that Microsoft is pushing HTML5. I think Safari has been supporting HTML5 for a while and Firefox even longer. Hmmm! I wonder what MS has to say about video support of HTML5 - I guess they are pushing SilverLight still. Yes, IE9 has support for HTML5, but not completely. I wonder how much of HTML5 is supported on MS properties also.
Who uses the FaceBook spy network anyhow?!
"Here we have the world?s most comprehensive database about people, their relationships, their names, their addresses, their locations, their communications with each other, and their relatives, all sitting within the United States, all accessible to US Intelligence.?:
http://thenextweb.com/facebook/2011/...been-invented/
Who? Really? You don't realize how popular it is with just about everyone with a computer and internet access? I'll give you a hint: it's freaking HUGE.
If html5 apps get so good that they are as good as native apps thats still good for apple. They can slowly shut down the app store forget the 30 percent cut and sell loads of hardware.
This could hurt Apple if developers see it as a way to avoid giving Apple their 30% cut. They could either develop their own HTML5 webapps or they could join up with Facebook (a large and influential internet company). If enough developers do it, Apple could be hurting.
This could hurt Apple if developers see it as a way to avoid giving Apple their 30% cut. They could either develop their own HTML5 webapps or they could join up with Facebook (a large and influential internet company). If enough developers do it, Apple could be hurting.
It could, if the revenue generated by the App Store was significant to Apple. As it stands, the revenue is a drop in the bucket compared to hardware revenue, and according to Apple only serves to cover the cost of running the store.
The iTunes Music Store, the App Store... these are all just value-adding features that create a rich ecosystem that hook people on Apple's hardware. Having HTML5 webapps available on iOS devices doesn't remove any value; if anything, it adds it, as it reduces the "it doesn't have Flash" argument.
What you may not understand is that Facebook users spend tons of time playing games within Facebook. And while people are playing games, ads are displayed on the screen. But these games are all (?) written in Flash. So this little revenue stream is not available to Facebook on the iPlatfoms.
This HTML 5 idea is to allow this revenue stream to become available again to Facebook.
Yes, people do play games on Facebook and I don't think that is stream of revenue goes to Zynga and other game developers for Facebook. But, if you think they are moving to HTML 5 for lack of Flash on iOS devices, than they are showing that middle finger to Adobe and not Apple! They basically are validating what Apple has been saying all along. Again, what does that have to do with the real "conspiracy" story about non-native Apps.
Agree.
And for those who are not paying attention, and I know all the fanboys will say "Microsoft who dat!?", but those guys in Redmond are investing a ton in pefecting HTML 5 rendering and HTML 5 authoring tools. That's good I think because we will soon be able to run any app, not just those Steve approves of, on our iDevices. Of course Steve may decide to not support HTML 5. Time will tell how this next battle plays out.
You realize that Apple has been actively pushing the HTML5 standard for several years, releasing the WebKit engine and promoting Canvas and h.264 playback?
Apple WANTS to see HTML5 succeed. Before the App Store, Apple was promoting webapps; they just weren't fully baked yet, and developers and the consumer market have gravitated to local apps.
Not if people keep buying iOS devices. App store exists to sell hardware. If the number of apps decreases then the cost of maintaining these apps will decrease. Apples 90% of profit is from hardware sales. I fail to see how in any scenario how Apple will hurt.
If html5 apps get so good that they are as good as native apps thats still good for apple. They can slowly shut down the app store forget the 30 percent cut and sell loads of hardware.
One quick thing: What sets Apple's mobile products apart for many people is the vibrant and varied App Store. If those apps are all available as web apps instead of native apps and are available to Android/Windows/HP/Blackberry users, what's going to keep anyone besides diehards buying Apple products? Sure they make great stuff and have a great ecosystem, but if the apps are available everywhere, there's nothing really setting them apart, so hardware sales will suffer.
It could, if the revenue generated by the App Store was significant to Apple. As it stands, the revenue is a drop in the bucket compared to hardware revenue, and according to Apple only serves to cover the cost of running the store.
The iTunes Music Store, the App Store... these are all just value-adding features that create a rich ecosystem that hook people on Apple's hardware. Having HTML5 webapps available on iOS devices doesn't remove any value; if anything, it adds it, as it reduces the "it doesn't have Flash" argument.
As I stated to someone else, the problem is that if Facebook and other developers begin chasing after the web app dream and ditch native apps, these web apps will be available to all mobile users, which gives Apple nothing to differentiate itself, which will indeed hurt hardware sales.
You realize that Apple has been actively pushing the HTML5 standard for several years, releasing the WebKit engine and promoting Canvas and h.264 playback?
Apple WANTS to see HTML5 succeed. Before the App Store, Apple was promoting webapps; they just weren't fully baked yet, and developers and the consumer market have gravitated to local apps.
yes i do realize . that was then, this is now.
Yes, people do play games on Facebook and I don't think that is stream of revenue goes to Zynga and other game developers for Facebook. But, if you think they are moving to HTML 5 for lack of Flash on iOS devices, than they are showing that middle finger to Adobe and not Apple! They basically are validating what Apple has been saying all along. Again, what does that have to do with the real "conspiracy" story about non-native Apps.
it has nothing to do with a conspiracy theory . it has to do with facebook controlling their destiny on ios.
it's funny how you mentioned that Microsoft is pushing HTML5. I think Safari has been supporting HTML5 for a while and Firefox even longer. Hmmm! I wonder what MS has to say about video support of HTML5 - I guess they are pushing SilverLight still. Yes, IE9 has support for HTML5, but not completely. I wonder how much of HTML5 is supported on MS properties also.
this is not about who did what in the past re html 5. it is about how the landscape is changing right now.
As I stated to someone else, the problem is that if Facebook and other developers begin chasing after the web app dream and ditch native apps, these web apps will be available to all mobile users, which gives Apple nothing to differentiate itself, which will indeed hurt hardware sales.
First of all, HTML5 web apps were to replaced native apps, than all of the mobile platforms who shut down there app stores (Apple (iOS), Google (Android), Microsoft (WP7)) and there will be no differentiator. Secondly, from what I know HTML5 does not support gestures which can one of the key differentiators. HTML5 doe not support accelerometer. So, even if HTML5 can get some richness in application you are not going to get the bang without using the native Apps and there is no way in world the games are going to be rich using HTML5. Trust me, I played Angry Bird in Google Chrome browser (I assume they were using HTML5 animation, but I might be wrong) and the experience is just not the same as on my iPhone/iPad. And Angry Bird is not super graphic-rich game.
One quick thing: What sets Apple's mobile products apart for many people is the vibrant and varied App Store. If those apps are all available as web apps instead of native apps and are available to Android/Windows/HP/Blackberry users, what's going to keep anyone besides diehards buying Apple products? Sure they make great stuff and have a great ecosystem, but if the apps are available everywhere, there's nothing really setting them apart, so hardware sales will suffer.
what he said!
Pretty much everybody but you it seems.
Ha! Over 6.5 billion people on earth and well below 1 billion use it. So yeah, most don't.
First of all, HTML5 web apps were to replaced native apps, than all of the mobile platforms who shut down there app stores (Apple (iOS), Google (Android), Microsoft (WP7)) and there will be no differentiator. Secondly, from what I know HTML5 does not support gestures which can one of the key differentiators. HTML5 doe not support accelerometer. So, even if HTML5 can get some richness in application you are not going to get the bang without using the native Apps and there is no way in world the games are going to be rich using HTML5. Trust me, I played Angry Bird in Google Chrome browser (I assume they were using HTML5 animation, but I might be wrong) and the experience is just not the same as on my iPhone/iPad. And Angry Bird is not super graphic-rich game.
To your first point, that's exactly what I was saying. Without something to set platforms apart, Apple would be hurting because they wouldn't have the App Store to lean on to encourage sales.
Your second point in an excellent one. The lack of gesture support (thus far) and accelerometer/gyroscope support was something I had not even thought of. That would prevent a large number of developers ditching native apps -- at least until those things are integrated into HTML5 (if that's even possible).
Good post.
it has nothing to do with a conspiracy theory . it has to do with facebook controlling their destiny on ios.
Like I explained earlier why Facebook would want to go this path of using HTML5. But, just because FB is going one way (or bringing in 80 or so developer to same path as story mentioned), you are not going to find all the developers jumping on this FB wagon. Can't say enough - For Apple, this is a moot point!