Judge denies Samsung's request to see Apple's iPhone 5, iPad 3

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 41
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by shigzeo View Post


    Samsung are many many times the size of Apple .....



    Ummm..... Samsung's market cap as of today is 122 trilion Korean won. At an exchange rate of $0.0009/Won, that is ~USD110 billion.



    Apple's market cap is about 3x that.



    Sorry, no contest.
  • Reply 22 of 41
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post


    Hyperbole much?



    http://www.revenews.com/revenews/new...wn-with-apple/



    Not quite. See above. Apple will probably have $80B - $85B in cash by the end of this year, so, with a little additional borrowing, it could quite easily, if it wanted to.
  • Reply 23 of 41
    leonardleonard Posts: 528member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post


    Hyperbole much?



    http://www.revenews.com/revenews/new...wn-with-apple/



    So they couldn't buy them with cash. But they could buy them. Apple's Market Value is twice Samsung's.
  • Reply 24 of 41
    swiftswift Posts: 436member
    Sarcasm doesn't play too well in the legal system. Judges have no /s tag.
  • Reply 25 of 41
    swiftswift Posts: 436member
    Apple doesn't want to buy a manufacturer like Samsung. They want to rent their production lines and volume buy their essential products: semiconductors.



    My question is, when will the United States regain some part of the semiconductor market that was once ours? Can we? If not, I think we're doomed. The beginning of the end was when the big US TV industry preferred to let the set makers go offshore.



    Not that I'm an economic isolationist. But we really need some of the economic benefits that manufacturing brings. Read Alexander Hamilton.
  • Reply 26 of 41
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 23,320member
    Another $40-50 Billion might do it. And how long did it take Apple to get that first $50 billion in the bank? That's a lot of money even for Apple. Now add Apple trying to spend it, and getting nailed for a few billion in taxes owed to the US Government once they bring their cash home (since much of it is stashed overseas to avoid those taxes).



    Granted, Apple has a lot of money saved for a rainy day. But not THAT much.
  • Reply 27 of 41
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 23,320member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Swift View Post


    Sarcasm doesn't play too well in the legal system. Judges have no /s tag.



    Agreed. The judge didn't find any humor in Apple's suggestion that the court would not be a good arbiter of Apple's company secrets.
  • Reply 28 of 41
    robin huberrobin huber Posts: 3,531member
    When Samsung filed this motion it seemed childish and stupid on the face of it. I still have no clue as to whether Samsung's legal department is indeed petty and foolish, or if there was some sound legal strategy involved in this that escapes me.
  • Reply 29 of 41
    anantksundaramanantksundaram Posts: 20,276member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Swift View Post


    Apple doesn't want to buy a manufacturer like Samsung.



    No one said that.
  • Reply 30 of 41
    realisticrealistic Posts: 1,154member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by shigzeo View Post


    Samsung are many many times the size of Apple and live and breathe on suing people, defending against lawsuits, and shoving suitcases of money at reporters; they can outspend Apple in legal any time they want. Hell, it wouldn't take much to buy Apple if such things were easy to arrange by merely shifting branches around.



    Samsung are the largest conglomerate on earth, the largest this earth has ever seen. They only get bigger.



    Remember, too, that Samsung are the prize of Korea (and one of the backbones of its government and economy. There is no way this will hurt Samsung at all other than tarnish its name abroad. But considering how peachy people in the States think of Samsung, I rather think the good people of the USA who hate 'tyranny' will rally behind the 'good' Samsung for the simple reason that they know nothing about the megacorp.



    Whatever the case, this is big. Why? Korean companies get away copying so many things meanwhile thrasing Chinese companies as knock-offs.



    Of course, this tarnishes Apple's name abroad, where people seriously think they are the biggest this or that.



    Bottom line: until the US government is funded largely by Apple so that Apple can do whatever it wants, it is just another tech company. Another tech company cannot fight a mega corp that has pretty much proved via a few major scandals that Korean government is 100% behind Samsung no matter what they do. We are not even talking about legality here. Samsung don't really operate on that plane, at least as it is conceived of in the West.



    So, Apple need to think this way: the three people who bought Galaxy tabs and S's in the USA are what they are fighting. No matter what happens in the USA and the west, Samsung will still copy and re-brand (this is very glossy hyperbole) at home. Korean law and US law (though intertwined because the US pretty much made Korea after the war) may be similar in certain aspects, but in Korea, laws are something totally other, something at the behest of money and nothing else. And when it comes to Money, Samsung are gods.



    Check your facts. Apple is more valuable than Samsung. Apple could buy Samsung with its' cash holdings alone but Samsung would have a hard time raising the cash from banks to buy Apple.
  • Reply 31 of 41
    cloudgazercloudgazer Posts: 2,161member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post


    Not quite. See above. Apple will probably have $80B - $85B in cash by the end of this year, so, with a little additional borrowing, it could quite easily, if it wanted to.



    You're right of course, it's only Samsung's Mobile&Tablet division that Apple could buy for cash - it would need to throw some stock down for the whole enchilada.
  • Reply 32 of 41
    cloudgazercloudgazer Posts: 2,161member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Realistic View Post


    Check your facts. Apple is more valuable than Samsung. Apple could buy Samsung with its' cash holdings alone but Samsung would have a hard time raising the cash from banks to buy Apple.



    It depends on how you measure the firm, as I already pointed out in my response to him. Samsung is certainly bigger by employees or revenues. To be fair to him market cap is a very American way to weigh firms - Chaebol are so closely held and controlled by minority shareholders that their market cap will always suffer - which is why their P/E is so low.
  • Reply 33 of 41
    cameronjcameronj Posts: 2,357member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by cloudgazer View Post


    Smells like tactics to me. Samsung's legal team files an unreasonable request which they don't really intend to put much effort into, hoping that Apple's super secrecy will compel them to put significant resources into opposing it.



    Yeah they probably had to pull iPad designers and software engineers off their production lines to help out.
  • Reply 34 of 41
    cameronjcameronj Posts: 2,357member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


    Will Apple let them? This is theft of intellectual property at the most basic level.



    "Settling" needs to be 'Fundamentally change the look of all of your hardware and software or stop selling your devices in the United States."



    Then Apple can move on to other markets where they have similar patents and other companies in the U.S.



    Samsung is such a valuable partner/supplier, my guess is that Apple's best case outcome (in Apple's eyes) is (much) lower licensing fees for IP that Samsung owns and (much) more assured supply of critical components.
  • Reply 35 of 41
    cameronjcameronj Posts: 2,357member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by shigzeo View Post


    Samsung are many many times the size of Apple and live and breathe on suing people, defending against lawsuits, and shoving suitcases of money at reporters; they can outspend Apple in legal any time they want. Hell, it wouldn't take much to buy Apple if such things were easy to arrange by merely shifting branches around.



    Samsung are the largest conglomerate on earth, the largest this earth has ever seen. They only get bigger.



    It's great that you have civic pride, but unfortunately, you're wrong on the financial part of things. Samsung is not bigger than Apple in any way that matters in this sphere.
  • Reply 36 of 41
    cameronjcameronj Posts: 2,357member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Swift View Post


    Apple doesn't want to buy a manufacturer like Samsung. They want to rent their production lines and volume buy their essential products: semiconductors.



    My question is, when will the United States regain some part of the semiconductor market that was once ours? Can we? If not, I think we're doomed. The beginning of the end was when the big US TV industry preferred to let the set makers go offshore.



    Not that I'm an economic isolationist. But we really need some of the economic benefits that manufacturing brings. Read Alexander Hamilton.



    Of course. And that's WHY Apple could buy Samsung nearly with the cash on hand. Because you let people who are content to make very tiny profits doing very dirty, easy work, do that. And you yourself then make the other 90% of the profit that is earned on your products while your suppliers make 10% of the profits. Taking 98 cents and turning it into a dollar isn't something many businesspeople would be proud of.
  • Reply 37 of 41
    cloudgazercloudgazer Posts: 2,161member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by cameronj View Post


    Yeah they probably had to pull iPad designers and software engineers off their production lines to help out.



    I was thinking more along the lines of a senior lawyer :0
  • Reply 38 of 41
    cameronjcameronj Posts: 2,357member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by cloudgazer View Post


    I was thinking more along the lines of a senior lawyer :0



    Do you think senior lawyers are so busy that they can't find time to do their job? Or that Apple only has one or two? Or can't hire outside guns with 80 billion in cash?



    There's no way that Samsung could help themselves by "swamping Apple's lawyers" with two much work.
  • Reply 39 of 41
    iq78iq78 Posts: 256member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by shigzeo View Post


    Hell, it wouldn't take much to buy Apple if such things were easy to arrange by merely shifting branches around.



    Ah, I don't think you have a clue how much cash Apple has vs. Samsung. Samsung might have more employees and more sub-companies, but the combination of profit and stock investment has generated WAY more cash for Apple. Because of this, Apple's "worth" eclipses Samsung.



    Financially, Apple could buy Samsung with their cash holdings and still have more cash available than Samsung currently holds.



    Samsung is huge (much like GE) but that doesn't mean they have enough money to buy Apple. They would have to raise the money, on the other hand, Apple could buy Samsung outright.... believe it or not. Seems crazy, but it is true.
  • Reply 40 of 41
    I have one word to SS, that is "瞎", that means SS's request is totally unreasonable like a blind person try to find a way out without any clue.
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