Broad multitouch patent granted to Apple seen as 'huge blow' to rivals

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  • Reply 21 of 115
    cloudgazercloudgazer Posts: 2,161member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by delreyjones View Post


    The old saying goes something like: "Those who don't learn the lessons of history are doomed to repeat them." In this case, I believe Steve Jobs fully learned the lessons and we're not going to see a Mac/Windows repeat!



    It's not actually that old - Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it - Jorge Santayana (1905).
  • Reply 22 of 115
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by cloudgazer View Post


    It's not actually that old - Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it - Jorge Santayana (1905).



    He's condemned to repeat it....
  • Reply 23 of 115
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by cloudgazer View Post


    It's not actually that old - Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it - Jorge Santayana (1905).



    To be fair, that was 106 years ago, I think its safe to call it an "old saying".
  • Reply 24 of 115
    macrulezmacrulez Posts: 2,455member
    deleted
  • Reply 25 of 115
    sockrolidsockrolid Posts: 2,788member
    The patent, AFAIK, only covers one-finger web page scrolling. With two-finger scrolling on items within that web page. Not terribly broad, but it cuts right to the heart of the "internet experience" on a mobile device. How else could you conceivably scroll a web page? With 3 fingers? Four fingers?



    Also, this judgement is likely just the tip of the Apple multi-touch patent iceberg. Apple filed a 290-page patent called "the iPhone patent" and I'm sure every little detail of the iPhone GUI (and that of other existing and future Apple devices) is covered in that document.
  • Reply 26 of 115
    sipadansipadan Posts: 107member
    This is gold, Jerry, GOLD!!!!!!
  • Reply 27 of 115
    mrmj2umrmj2u Posts: 34member
    After reading the first few lines in the patent, it looks like it applies to switching pages on a multi-touch device. It is narrow in that it specifically states that the idea being patented is the switch from one screen to another using either a vertical or horizontal swipe. It is unique in that during that swipe, you can see elements of both screen in real time as they are changed, depending on the speed at which the swipe is delivered.



    Swipe slow and you will be able to see content from both screens, swipe fast and you will watch the contents of each screen wiz by...



    All Android smartphones seem to do this on the home screen and on the applications screen... WebOS uses this kind of UI for multitasking and so does the PlayBook... So it will be very interesting to see how this turns out.
  • Reply 28 of 115
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,803member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post


    Really AI should be ashamed of itself! This is not a broad patent at all and in fact is rather narrow. I do hope this post ends up first simply to make sure everybody realizes this article is completely bogus.



    So I urge everyone to actually read the claims in the patent before responding to this article. The patent is good for Apple but it is by no means broad.



    Wrong! This is a very broad patent, as stated by experts that PC Magazine consulted, and by others as well.
  • Reply 29 of 115
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 12,860member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Joseph L View Post


    Ya know, when you produce one of the most popular blog sites for all things Apple, then maybe we'll take your word for it. As of now, I trust AI's reporting until proven wrong (and I don't remember that ever happening).



    The claims in the patent are in actuality very narrow. I urge you to read the publicly available information.



    As for AI they have been wrong so many times it is now a running joke. The quality of the articles hosted here have gone down considerably over the last few months. Especially in regards to accuracy and technical knowledge.
  • Reply 30 of 115
    phalanxphalanx Posts: 109member
    Wasn't it just a few years ago the Apple faithful said, when Apple was being sued over patents, that shouldn't a company just work on being innovative to stay ahead of the competition? Litigation is a losers way of fighting back, or something along those lines. And there was just a thread yesterday that said that Android devices are not impacting Apple at all. Apple is making as many devices as they possibly can. So i guess it just depends whos side your on. I guess if Apple is suing it is all for the betterment of humanity. Long live the Apple Reich!!!
  • Reply 31 of 115
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post


    The claims in the patent are in actuality very narrow. I urge you to read the publicly available information.



    As for AI they have been wrong so many times it is now a running joke. The quality of the articles hosted here have gone down considerably over the last few months. Especially in regards to accuracy and technical knowledge.



    Considering the patents they have just bought affect EVERY competing device on the market, I think thats a very broad range indeed. I also beleive they mean 'broad' as in the number of applications this patent can relate to - given that swiping to change views is pretty much one of the basic principals of touch screen technology - well, you can figure it out from there.
  • Reply 32 of 115
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,803member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MacVicta View Post


    I'm withholding judgement until I can see another report from someone other than PCMag. All of these stories on Apple sites and blogs point back to that one article and I'm not sure I can trust the info inside it.



    I trust it, as they asked well known patent attorneys their opinion. From the bit I've seen of it, it covers not just a capacitive screen, but the way we interact with it.



    One finger and multiple fingers gestures to move and activate icons and functions on touch devices is what the patent covers. It also covers this in a more specific way, which saves it from covering touch entirely. But the way this is done in the patent does cover pretty much the way everyone is doing it now.



    As is, it seems to cover every interpretation of a touch device.



    So what we have here is a patent that may be considered to be "essential". Essential in the way of patents that they and Apple were posturing around until recently. If so, then Apple could be forced to license it According to FOSS, the way Nokia is required to for their essential patents.



    While this wouldn't change Apples profitability too much, it could add a billion a year to it, depending on what they would get per phone, and how many touch phones were to sell each year, and, of course, whether other companies figure out a way around it.
  • Reply 33 of 115
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,399member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Sipadan View Post


    This is gold, Jerry, GOLD!!!!!!







    "These lawsuits are making me thirsty..."
  • Reply 34 of 115
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,803member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by cloudgazer View Post


    There are lots of different kinds of IP and this sort of software patent is only one of the arrows in Apple's quiver. iPhone's UI is also protected by registered TMs on the icons, by design patents on the enclosures and by trade dress. The multi-touch patents are potentially the most lucrative because they would apply to practically any smartphone made from here on, but the case against Samsung doesn't rest on them.



    So middle ground is entirely possible.



    Yes, it is. It would depend on just how Apple would use this. They could themselves interpret it narrowly, and go to companies for a narrow license. They could also interpret it broadly, and attempt to go that way.



    I would think that as long as Apple doesn't attempt to use this to strangle the industry, they will get away with it.



    Interestingly enough, if the patent system moved much more quickly, and Apple had received this patent by the end of 2007, before others attempted to compete, they would have been allowed to prevent direct competition, as it hadn't yet developed. But once an industry does develop, companies aren't allowed to kill it with patents.
  • Reply 35 of 115
    joseph ljoseph l Posts: 197member
    Nobody plays the patent game better than Steve!



    Buh Bye, Android!
  • Reply 36 of 115
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by phalanx View Post


    Wasn't it just a few years ago the Apple faithful said, when Apple was being sued over patents, that shouldn't a company just work on being innovative to stay ahead of the competition? Litigation is a losers way of fighting back, or something along those lines. And there was just a thread yesterday that said that Android devices are not impacting Apple at all. Apple is making as many devices as they possibly can. So i guess it just depends whos side your on. I guess if Apple is suing it is all for the betterment of humanity. Long live the Apple Reich!!!



    No one has sued anybody. This is simply about Apple being awarded a patent. We'll have to see if Apple brings any litigation from this.



    And Apple suing a company for patent violations against a device or devices they have actually brought to market is far different from patent trolls like Paul Allen who never did a damn thing with their vague patents except sit back and wait for someone to actually create something and make revenue with it before deciding to swoop in and demand a cut of the pie.



    If Apple violated someone else's legitimate patent, I'm all for them having to pay a penalty or license the product. Apple actually does license lots of patents held by others. (See the recent Nokia decision.)
  • Reply 37 of 115
    macologistmacologist Posts: 264member
    It always amazes me how Inscestual Relationships in that tech industry happen:
    • Apple's iPhone gets copied by Android, yet Apple uses Google Maps, GV etc.

    • Apple's iPhone gets copied by Samsung, yet Apple uses Samsung RAM, Flash and more..

    All those suits are there to adjust the $$ Math of who pays whom and how much, etc!!!



    Lawyers get paid, while their fees are used to offset the Taxes those Corporations pay on their Profits!



    In the end, I wonder if there is any advantage for doing business honestly from the beginning, and use the those Litigation Costs for R&D, thus reinvesting in themselves, and maybe making products more affordable earlier? It'd be great to see your thoughts on that!



    Another Opportunity Cost of that madness is that none of us will live forever, and that includes everyone in all those tech companies! Thus, it's sad to see all that ? distraction ?, taking away the focus from the creative process of making great products to make our lives more fun!!!



    End of Idealism Attack, back to LIFE!!! Happy Summer 2011 to all!!!
  • Reply 38 of 115
    scotty321scotty321 Posts: 313member
    This is NOT a huge blow to Apple's competitors.



    Patent lawsuits can take 10 or 20 years to settle, at which point this technology will be outdated anyways.



    Plus, the settlements are just cash payouts anyways, so the infringing companies still get to steal and use the technology anyways.
  • Reply 39 of 115
    bigpicsbigpics Posts: 1,376member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post


    Really AI should be ashamed of itself! This is not a broad patent at all and in fact is rather narrow. I do hope this post ends up first simply to make sure everybody realizes this article is completely bogus.



    So I urge everyone to actually read the claims in the patent before responding to this article. The patent is good for Apple but it is by no means broad.



    Y'know, I can answer in even bigger type whenever I want.



    But if I have something worth saying, it's the saying and saying it well that matters. The size of your point is not the point. And doesn't make a point.
  • Reply 40 of 115
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 12,860member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    Wrong! This is a very broad patent, as stated by experts that PC Magazine consulted, and by others as well.



    I really don't care what PC Magazine says nor do I really care about their experts. The only thing that count is the claims in the patent which you can see below.

    Quote:

    What is claimed is:



    1. A method, comprising: at a portable multifunction device with one or more processors, memory, and a touch screen display; displaying a portion of web page content in a stationary application window on the touch screen display, wherein the portion of web page content includes: a frame displaying a portion of frame content, and other content of the web page, comprising content of the web page other than the frame content; detecting a translation gesture by a single finger on or near the touch screen display; in response to detecting the translation gesture by the single finger, translating the web page content to display a new portion of web page content in the stationary application window on the touch screen display, wherein translating the web page content includes simultaneously translating the displayed portion of the frame content and the other content of the web page; detecting a translation gesture by two fingers on or near the touch screen display; and in response to detecting the translation gesture by the two fingers, translating the frame content to display a new portion of frame content in the stationary application window on the touch screen display, without translating the other content of the web page.



    2. A method, comprising: at a portable multifunction device with one or more processors, memory, and a touch screen display: displaying a portion of page content in a stationary application window on the touch screen display, wherein the portion of page content includes: a frame displaying a portion of frame content, and other content of the page; detecting an N-finger translation gesture on or near the touch screen display; in response to detecting the N-finger translation gesture, translating the page content to display a new portion of page content in the stationary application window, on the touch screen display, wherein translating the page content includes simultaneously translating the displayed portion of the frame content and the other content of the page; detecting an M-finger translation gesture on or near the touch screen display, where M is a different number than N; and in response to detecting the M-finger translation gesture, translating the frame content in the stationary application window, to display a new portion of frame content on the touch screen display without translating the other content of the page.



    3. The method of claim 2, where N is equal to 1 and M is equal to 2.



    4. The method of claim 2, wherein the page content is web page content.



    5. The method of claim 2, wherein the page content is a word processing, spreadsheet, email or presentation document.



    6. The method of claim 2, wherein the frame content comprises a map.



    7. The method of claim 2, wherein the frame content comprises a scrollable list of items.



    8. A graphical user interface on a portable multifunction device with one or more processors, memory, and a touch screen display, comprising: a portion of page content in a stationary application window on the touch screen display, which includes: a frame displaying a portion of frame content, and other content of the page; wherein: in response to detecting an N-finger translation gesture on or near the touch screen display, the page content is translated to display a new portion of page content in the stationary application window on the touch screen display, wherein translating the page content includes simultaneously translating the displayed portion of the frame content and the other content of the page; and in response to detecting an M-finger translation gesture on or near the touch screen display, where M is a different number than N, the frame content is translated to display a new portion of frame content in the stationary application window on the touch screen display, without translating the other content of the page.



    9. A portable multifunction device, comprising: a touch screen display; one or more processors; memory; and one or more programs, wherein the one or more programs are stored in the memory and configured to be executed by the one or more processors, the one or more programs including: instructions for displaying a portion of page content in a stationary application window on the touch screen display, wherein the portion of page content includes: a frame displaying a portion of frame content, and other content of the page; instructions for detecting an N-finger translation gesture on or near the touch screen display; instructions for translating the page content, in response to detecting the N-finger translation gesture, to display a new portion of page content in the stationary application window on the touch screen display, wherein the instructions for translating the page content include instructions for simultaneously translating the displayed portion of the frame content and the other content of the page; instructions for detecting an M-finger translation gesture on or near the touch screen display, where M is a different number than N; and instructions for translating the frame content, in response to detecting the M-finger translation gesture, to display a new portion of frame content in the stationary application window on the touch screen display, without translating the other content of the page.



    10. The portable multifunction device of claim 9, where N is equal to 1 and M is equal to 2.



    11. The portable multifunction device of claim 9, wherein the page content is web page content.



    12. The portable multifunction device of claim 9, wherein the page content is a word processing, spreadsheet, email or presentation document.



    13. The portable multifunction device of claim 9, wherein the frame content comprises a map.



    14. The portable multifunction device of claim 9, wherein the frame content comprises a scrollable list of items.



    15. A non-transitory computer readable storage medium storing one or more programs, the one or more programs comprising instructions, which when executed by an electronic device with a display, cause the electronic device to: display a portion of page content display in a stationary application window on the touch screen display, wherein the portion of page content includes: a frame displaying a portion of frame content, and other content of the page; detect an N-finger translation gesture on or near the touch screen display; translate the page content, in response to detecting the N-finger translation to display a new portion of page content in the stationary application window on the touch screen, wherein translating the page content includes simultaneously translating the displayed portion of the frame content and the other content of the page; detect an M-finger translation gesture on or near the touch screen display, where M is a different number than N; and translate the frame content, in response to detecting the M-finger translation gesture, to display a new portion of frame content in the stationary application window on the touch screen display, without translating the other content of the page.



    16. The computer readable storage medium of claim 15, where N is equal to 1 and M is equal to 2.



    17. The computer readable storage medium of claim 15, wherein the page content is web page content.



    18. The computer readable storage medium of claim 15, wherein the page content is a word processing, spreadsheet, email or presentation document.



    19. The computer readable storage medium of claim 15, wherein the frame content comprises a map.



    20. The computer readable storage medium of claim 15, wherein the frame content comprises a scrollable list of items.



    The claims, the important part of a patent, are very narrow if you read the above. To call the claims board is just inflammatory.



    in a nut shell the patent covers using more than one finger in a content window, contained within another, to scroll that content without impacting the larger containing window. It is an extremely specific patent and does not materially effect the competition as there are many methods available to address scrolling within a sub window. A common approach will likely be tapping a content window to select it then scrolling with one finger.



    If you don't like my cut and past job you can go here: http://patft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-...S=PN/7,966,578 (I hope I got the entire link there)



    In any event I can see how this patent can be called broad at all. It covers specific use of two finger scrolling. Something that is unique and innovative from Apple. Because of the tight focus of the patent it does not materially effect the ability of other to compete.



    Frankly this patent is only a problem if alternative systems have been copying Apple directly. To bad for them if they have been to lazy to come up with their own solutions.
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