[quote]Yet another casualty in our ludicrous war on drugs.<hr></blockquote>
i completely agree with that statement.
time to give up the ghost already, drugs aren't that bad.
i wonder if you were to balance out kids who died from drug OD's, etc, vs. kids who were killed due to turf wars, accidents (like this) etc, which would come out ahead.....
the additional problem here with "law enforcement" is the presumption of "presumption of innocence."
if one is presumed innocent *until* convicted by a jury of ones peers, then the taking of a life when one is not in direct life endangerment, throws out the supposition of innocence. That one "expected" a "suspected" or "known" drug dealer to have exited the house does not pre-empt the supposition of innocence. The fact that the agents claimed to have known that the girl was in fact a girl and not the supposedly "dangerous" drug dealer should have been enough to change whatever tactics to ensure that the innocent person was not harmed. One cannot be "guilty by association" until the the person one is associated with has been found guitly. There is no way that having blocked in a vehicle that the agents thought that their lives were in danger. They might think they would get hurt, but hurt and mortal danger are two different things all together.
The agents had choices such as calling in for airt support and following the vehicle to wherever it was going in order to apprehend the actual suspect and leave the innocent girl for the traffic violation she committed.
They could have scraped the entire evening. In NYS Governor Pataki, after a rash of State Trooper look alikes were raping women on the NYS throughway, made it illegal for State Troopers to stop people while in unmarked cars. He did this because he feared that his daughter(s) would get raped. This is easy evidence that a decent lawyer could use to explain why a 14 year old could panic at being boxed in by unmarked Caprice Classics or Crown Victorias. And it also serves as an example as to why such surveliance missions should be more mindfull of protecting the rights of the presumed innocent.
<strong>the additional problem here with "law enforcement" is the presumption of "presumption of innocence."
if one is presumed innocent *until* convicted by a jury of ones peers, then the taking of a life when one is not in direct life endangerment, throws out the supposition of innocence. That one "expected" a "suspected" or "known" drug dealer to have exited the house does not pre-empt the supposition of innocence. The fact that the agents claimed to have known that the girl was in fact a girl and not the supposedly "dangerous" drug dealer should have been enough to change whatever tactics to ensure that the innocent person was not harmed. One cannot be "guilty by association" until the the person one is associated with has been found guitly. There is no way that having blocked in a vehicle that the agents thought that their lives were in danger. They might think they would get hurt, but hurt and mortal danger are two different things all together.
The agents had choices such as calling in for airt support and following the vehicle to wherever it was going in order to apprehend the actual suspect and leave the innocent girl for the traffic violation she committed.
They could have scraped the entire evening. In NYS Governor Pataki, after a rash of State Trooper look alikes were raping women on the NYS throughway, made it illegal for State Troopers to stop people while in unmarked cars. He did this because he feared that his daughter(s) would get raped. This is easy evidence that a decent lawyer could use to explain why a 14 year old could panic at being boxed in by unmarked Caprice Classics or Crown Victorias. And it also serves as an example as to why such surveliance missions should be more mindfull of protecting the rights of the presumed innocent.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I just have to give a compliment here and say thanks for such a well reasoned post. Critizing in very specific manners, offering alternatives and citing relevant examples where the police were able to adapt, still do their jobs, and still keep us all safe. Just a fantastic bit of writing!
Comments
i completely agree with that statement.
time to give up the ghost already, drugs aren't that bad.
i wonder if you were to balance out kids who died from drug OD's, etc, vs. kids who were killed due to turf wars, accidents (like this) etc, which would come out ahead.....
if one is presumed innocent *until* convicted by a jury of ones peers, then the taking of a life when one is not in direct life endangerment, throws out the supposition of innocence. That one "expected" a "suspected" or "known" drug dealer to have exited the house does not pre-empt the supposition of innocence. The fact that the agents claimed to have known that the girl was in fact a girl and not the supposedly "dangerous" drug dealer should have been enough to change whatever tactics to ensure that the innocent person was not harmed. One cannot be "guilty by association" until the the person one is associated with has been found guitly. There is no way that having blocked in a vehicle that the agents thought that their lives were in danger. They might think they would get hurt, but hurt and mortal danger are two different things all together.
The agents had choices such as calling in for airt support and following the vehicle to wherever it was going in order to apprehend the actual suspect and leave the innocent girl for the traffic violation she committed.
They could have scraped the entire evening. In NYS Governor Pataki, after a rash of State Trooper look alikes were raping women on the NYS throughway, made it illegal for State Troopers to stop people while in unmarked cars. He did this because he feared that his daughter(s) would get raped. This is easy evidence that a decent lawyer could use to explain why a 14 year old could panic at being boxed in by unmarked Caprice Classics or Crown Victorias. And it also serves as an example as to why such surveliance missions should be more mindfull of protecting the rights of the presumed innocent.
<strong>the additional problem here with "law enforcement" is the presumption of "presumption of innocence."
if one is presumed innocent *until* convicted by a jury of ones peers, then the taking of a life when one is not in direct life endangerment, throws out the supposition of innocence. That one "expected" a "suspected" or "known" drug dealer to have exited the house does not pre-empt the supposition of innocence. The fact that the agents claimed to have known that the girl was in fact a girl and not the supposedly "dangerous" drug dealer should have been enough to change whatever tactics to ensure that the innocent person was not harmed. One cannot be "guilty by association" until the the person one is associated with has been found guitly. There is no way that having blocked in a vehicle that the agents thought that their lives were in danger. They might think they would get hurt, but hurt and mortal danger are two different things all together.
The agents had choices such as calling in for airt support and following the vehicle to wherever it was going in order to apprehend the actual suspect and leave the innocent girl for the traffic violation she committed.
They could have scraped the entire evening. In NYS Governor Pataki, after a rash of State Trooper look alikes were raping women on the NYS throughway, made it illegal for State Troopers to stop people while in unmarked cars. He did this because he feared that his daughter(s) would get raped. This is easy evidence that a decent lawyer could use to explain why a 14 year old could panic at being boxed in by unmarked Caprice Classics or Crown Victorias. And it also serves as an example as to why such surveliance missions should be more mindfull of protecting the rights of the presumed innocent.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I just have to give a compliment here and say thanks for such a well reasoned post. Critizing in very specific manners, offering alternatives and citing relevant examples where the police were able to adapt, still do their jobs, and still keep us all safe. Just a fantastic bit of writing!
Sorry, it is the school teacher in me.
Nick