The most important question: Will the China Mobile logo make it to production models? I can't see Apple saying no to 611 million phones if CM demands it.
I could see Apple saying no to that. They have been in negotiations for years. Clearly, Apple is sticking to their guns and not just caving to the huge subscriber potential. Owning their brand is one of the most important things to Apple today.
And, by the way, that's not the most important question.
Some people are just bigoted and frankly racist nationalists. Given the current rate of innovation in China, they are/will be the predominate world superpower. Unfortunately, there are way too many Americans who live in a false sense of national greatness without even opening their eyes to what is happening abroad. America is still great, don't get me wrong, but we can't just rest on a false sense of pride. We need to continue to lead in the areas of technology and governance.
Hard to lead when the US government's placing (some defensible but many bizarre) shackles on our leading companies and debasing our our currency while taking on future social promises that can't possibly be met even at exorbitant tax rates (which will further depress the economy).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody
The stupid racially based remarks about China bother me also, but some of what you say here about innovation is nonsense.
... "(the) current rate of innovation in China" ? ... this is as close to zero as it can be at the moment.
Innovation is not about the production of goods, it's about original design and invention. China has almost none of that at the moment.
Interesting then that China wins so many of the contracts to build Apple's leading products....
Quote:
Innovation also is far from the whole ball of wax. Japan has astounding levels of innovation and creative, new ideas and yet they are struggling economically.
China's economy is different from the US and Europe in two main areas at the moment:
1) They are struggling to even *have* a middle class to consume the goods they create.
2) They lack originality and innovation in the design and manufacturing of these goods.
BTW, I'm also bothered by the racist, stereotypical (they're only "copycats") and xenophobic remarks about China and Asian societies in general, but it is worth pointing out that China and Japan are both notably racist and closed societies themselves in terms of dealing with other ethnicities....
To be fair a lot of that was accomplished by negotiating technology transfer. The Chinese are certainly developing at amazing speed though, and the central government is throwing resources at huge engineering projects. Even if some of them, such as Three Gorges Dam, are subsequently a mixed blessing.
World's fastest train is the Shinkansen in Japan (which is not in China.)
Where did China get their very fast trains? in deals with companies that that have innovated fast trains?companies in Japan, Germany, Spain, Italy, and France.
R&D expenditure does not equal "innovation" any more than manufacturing volume does. The important thing with R&D is the results it produces not the time, effort, or money spent.
Apple's leading products are not "produced" by China. Some of Apple's products are assembled by Chinese workers in factories that are mostly owned and run by Taiwanese companies using components sourced mostly from Korea, Taiwan, Japan, or the US. The design, engineering, and production planning is done in the US.
Although China is progressing in technology in general, it has a very long way to go in the (industrial) design area. I've met some very talented Chinese designers (all trained in the US) but they tend to stay here rather than return to China.
China is coming along, but like Russia, it will have difficulty reaching it's potential in the absence of personal freedom and rule of law.
World's fastest train is the Shinkansen in Japan (which is not in China.)
It depends. If you mean the test maglev track then perhaps they have the fastest, but that's not the entire network, it's just one little bit of track. It doesn't even currently run tourist trips, never mind a regular scheduled service.
The record for highest average speed on a regular scheduled train was held by France's TGV until 2009 when it was indeed taken by the Chinese who have a maglev train that's actually providing a service.
It depends. If you mean the test maglev track then perhaps they have the fastest, but that's not the entire network, it's just one little bit of track. It doesn't even currently run tourist trips, never mind a regular scheduled service.
The record for highest average speed on a regular scheduled train was held by France's TGV until 2009 when it was indeed taken by the Chinese who have a maglev train that's actually providing a service.
You are correct, the Chinese do run their maglev, built by Siemens (a German company, ) in commercial operation at record high top speeds. Call me sour grapes, but the Shanghai line is only 20 miles long with no stops. It's a government subsidized show piece more than anything. Despite the blistering top speed, the average speed end to end is about 260 km/hr.
I wasn't referring to maglevs (I was limiting trains to things with tracks and wheels.) I thinking of the Tōhoku Shinkansen. To me scheduled speed between stops in regular commercial service is the most meaningful measure. In any case it looks like you are right the Chinese have been running their trains at higher speeds. I would point out though, that all the so called, "home built Chinese trains" use major component sets from Hitachi, Bombadier, Siemens, and other western companies. And although they have run faster in commercial operation in the past, all trains in China (except the maglev) are now limited to 300 km/hr, which is the same limit the Tōhoku Shinkansen has been running for years.
In any case, no matter what I or anyone else says about it, the Chinese high speed rail system is definitely remarkable, especially for me. Twenty-five years ago it took me two incredibly long, hot, dirty days to ride hard seat from Urumqi to Beijing. Earlier that year, the train I took from (was it Dali?) to Kunming used a coal fired steam engine (nice soft sleeper though.) So high speed rail in China is nothing short of amazing for me.
To be fair a lot of that was accomplished by negotiating technology transfer. The Chinese are certainly developing at amazing speed though, and the central government is throwing resources at huge engineering projects. Even if some of them, such as Three Gorges Dam, are subsequently a mixed blessing.
No disagreement with anything you've said here.
My point was that many of the dismissive comments fail to realize the historically significant changes that are roiling through the Middle Kingdom. And to say that innovation is not in the Chinese character and mindset is incredibly short-sighted.
Japan also, for the record, began its post-WWII rise by adopting other technologies and then adapting them better than the original sources - and only later became a major force for innovation themselves.
Also, analogically, while we marvel at Apple here, Apple engineers the use of virtually all their components via some form of "technology transfer" as well - and no one - well there are some on these very forums would disagree, but in the main few claim Apple is not a force of innovation in the world, though they actually build very little and are barely in the component or manufacturing business themselves these days, outsourcing virtually their entire parts list and assembly work....
Comments
The most important question: Will the China Mobile logo make it to production models? I can't see Apple saying no to 611 million phones if CM demands it.
I could see Apple saying no to that. They have been in negotiations for years. Clearly, Apple is sticking to their guns and not just caving to the huge subscriber potential. Owning their brand is one of the most important things to Apple today.
And, by the way, that's not the most important question.
Thompson
I personally don't think this is a Chinese clone device, but I'm not sold that it's an iPhone 5 prototype either, but we shall see what happens...
I can't imagine they'd have bothered to try copying the OS that closely, especially when they can just use a freeby Android.
Some people are just bigoted and frankly racist nationalists. Given the current rate of innovation in China, they are/will be the predominate world superpower. Unfortunately, there are way too many Americans who live in a false sense of national greatness without even opening their eyes to what is happening abroad. America is still great, don't get me wrong, but we can't just rest on a false sense of pride. We need to continue to lead in the areas of technology and governance.
Hard to lead when the US government's placing (some defensible but many bizarre) shackles on our leading companies and debasing our our currency while taking on future social promises that can't possibly be met even at exorbitant tax rates (which will further depress the economy).
The stupid racially based remarks about China bother me also, but some of what you say here about innovation is nonsense.
... "(the) current rate of innovation in China" ? ... this is as close to zero as it can be at the moment.
You're simply factually totally wrong on this. China is already 2nd in the world in terms of R&D efforts. And they're not alone in mounting serious bids to be world leaders in tech, industry and design.
Innovation is not about the production of goods, it's about original design and invention. China has almost none of that at the moment.
Interesting then that China wins so many of the contracts to build Apple's leading products....
Innovation also is far from the whole ball of wax. Japan has astounding levels of innovation and creative, new ideas and yet they are struggling economically.
China's economy is different from the US and Europe in two main areas at the moment:
1) They are struggling to even *have* a middle class to consume the goods they create.
2) They lack originality and innovation in the design and manufacturing of these goods.
So where did they get the fastest trains in the world? Including the new designs that won't even have to stop at stations to pick up and discharge passengers? How did they manage the world's largest dam and river project? How are they becoming a leading force in green energy?
BTW, I'm also bothered by the racist, stereotypical (they're only "copycats") and xenophobic remarks about China and Asian societies in general, but it is worth pointing out that China and Japan are both notably racist and closed societies themselves in terms of dealing with other ethnicities....
So where did they get the fastest trains in the world? Including the new designs that won't even have to stop at stations to pick up and discharge passengers? How did they manage the world's largest dam and river project? How are they becoming a leading force in green energy?
To be fair a lot of that was accomplished by negotiating technology transfer. The Chinese are certainly developing at amazing speed though, and the central government is throwing resources at huge engineering projects. Even if some of them, such as Three Gorges Dam, are subsequently a mixed blessing.
Where did China get their very fast trains? in deals with companies that that have innovated fast trains?companies in Japan, Germany, Spain, Italy, and France.
R&D expenditure does not equal "innovation" any more than manufacturing volume does. The important thing with R&D is the results it produces not the time, effort, or money spent.
Apple's leading products are not "produced" by China. Some of Apple's products are assembled by Chinese workers in factories that are mostly owned and run by Taiwanese companies using components sourced mostly from Korea, Taiwan, Japan, or the US. The design, engineering, and production planning is done in the US.
Although China is progressing in technology in general, it has a very long way to go in the (industrial) design area. I've met some very talented Chinese designers (all trained in the US) but they tend to stay here rather than return to China.
China is coming along, but like Russia, it will have difficulty reaching it's potential in the absence of personal freedom and rule of law.
World's fastest train is the Shinkansen in Japan (which is not in China.)
It depends. If you mean the test maglev track then perhaps they have the fastest, but that's not the entire network, it's just one little bit of track. It doesn't even currently run tourist trips, never mind a regular scheduled service.
The record for highest average speed on a regular scheduled train was held by France's TGV until 2009 when it was indeed taken by the Chinese who have a maglev train that's actually providing a service.
It depends. If you mean the test maglev track then perhaps they have the fastest, but that's not the entire network, it's just one little bit of track. It doesn't even currently run tourist trips, never mind a regular scheduled service.
The record for highest average speed on a regular scheduled train was held by France's TGV until 2009 when it was indeed taken by the Chinese who have a maglev train that's actually providing a service.
You are correct, the Chinese do run their maglev, built by Siemens (a German company,
I wasn't referring to maglevs (I was limiting trains to things with tracks and wheels
In any case, no matter what I or anyone else says about it, the Chinese high speed rail system is definitely remarkable, especially for me. Twenty-five years ago it took me two incredibly long, hot, dirty days to ride hard seat from Urumqi to Beijing. Earlier that year, the train I took from (was it Dali?) to Kunming used a coal fired steam engine (nice soft sleeper though.) So high speed rail in China is nothing short of amazing for me.
To be fair a lot of that was accomplished by negotiating technology transfer. The Chinese are certainly developing at amazing speed though, and the central government is throwing resources at huge engineering projects. Even if some of them, such as Three Gorges Dam, are subsequently a mixed blessing.
No disagreement with anything you've said here.
My point was that many of the dismissive comments fail to realize the historically significant changes that are roiling through the Middle Kingdom. And to say that innovation is not in the Chinese character and mindset is incredibly short-sighted.
Japan also, for the record, began its post-WWII rise by adopting other technologies and then adapting them better than the original sources - and only later became a major force for innovation themselves.
Also, analogically, while we marvel at Apple here, Apple engineers the use of virtually all their components via some form of "technology transfer" as well - and no one - well there are some on these very forums would disagree, but in the main few claim Apple is not a force of innovation in the world, though they actually build very little and are barely in the component or manufacturing business themselves these days, outsourcing virtually their entire parts list and assembly work....