Afghanistan. Opium. The drug war.
While Karzai <a href="http://www.hindustantimes.com/news/181_198205,0005.htm"; target="_blank">asks</a> President Bush to not allow Afghanistan to get lost in the Iraq shuffle the UN tells us that the former residence of Osama bin Assface has retained the crown as <a href="http://www.voanews.com/article.cfm?objectID=B451C710-137F-4042-8C13D7EA69DB9EBD"; target="_blank">world's leading opium producer</a>.
I can't help but grin as the current administration shoots the aging War on Drugs right in the foot with yet another War on Badstuff. No one likes hard drugs more than us 'mericans.
There are <a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/2801829.stm"; target="_blank">questions</a> about how well Afghanistan is coming along and I wonder if anyone is surprised that once we ousted a brutal and oppressive religious regime that production of everyone's favorite hard drug base rose.
Or even important... does anyone care?
I can't say I do. Hell from all accounts Afghanistan is a massive dirt farm. The poor bastards don't even have oil to let fat Western white men come in and pump out and give them handfulls of greasy cash for.
Michael Moore"cheeseburgers" told us in the opening of Stupid White Men that the motive behind going in was to build a pipeline of some sort. How's that coming along, Mister Moore"friesplease"? He should go give a lecture about how evil the Bush administration is so their starving can feed off the food that falls out of his unshaven face.
Anyway here's hoping we stick around in Afghanistan. All indications are that we are committed to the place. Luckily for us Iraq has the bubblin' crude that could probably pay for whatever rebuilding needs to be done there.
I say we take an old cue from the British and see if the Chinese want to try opium again. Maybe Japan need some dirt to throw under that sinking airport they have.
That place ain't ever going to be Utopia, but hopefully when all is said and done and the Great Moderator in the Sky decides we have overstayed our welcome the people of Afghanistan will have gotten some good out of all of this.
Dog bless the USA!
[ 02-27-2003: Message edited by: groverat ]</p>
I can't help but grin as the current administration shoots the aging War on Drugs right in the foot with yet another War on Badstuff. No one likes hard drugs more than us 'mericans.
There are <a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/2801829.stm"; target="_blank">questions</a> about how well Afghanistan is coming along and I wonder if anyone is surprised that once we ousted a brutal and oppressive religious regime that production of everyone's favorite hard drug base rose.
Or even important... does anyone care?
I can't say I do. Hell from all accounts Afghanistan is a massive dirt farm. The poor bastards don't even have oil to let fat Western white men come in and pump out and give them handfulls of greasy cash for.
Michael Moore"cheeseburgers" told us in the opening of Stupid White Men that the motive behind going in was to build a pipeline of some sort. How's that coming along, Mister Moore"friesplease"? He should go give a lecture about how evil the Bush administration is so their starving can feed off the food that falls out of his unshaven face.
Anyway here's hoping we stick around in Afghanistan. All indications are that we are committed to the place. Luckily for us Iraq has the bubblin' crude that could probably pay for whatever rebuilding needs to be done there.
I say we take an old cue from the British and see if the Chinese want to try opium again. Maybe Japan need some dirt to throw under that sinking airport they have.
That place ain't ever going to be Utopia, but hopefully when all is said and done and the Great Moderator in the Sky decides we have overstayed our welcome the people of Afghanistan will have gotten some good out of all of this.
Dog bless the USA!
[ 02-27-2003: Message edited by: groverat ]</p>
Comments
So much for this message, eh? (Actually, I've just been waiting for the chance to post this.
Face it. In reality it will take years to convince them to alternative agriculture. It's in their culture to grow opium. Try and convince the tobacco growers to start finding alternatives for that in the United States adn see how far you'll go.
The Afgan people are getting food and tennis balls with "USA #1" written on them...give them time...they'll come our way...
<strong>It's in their culture to grow opium. </strong><hr></blockquote>
Actually, I think it has more to do with several years of drought. Most accounts I've read are from farmers who have tried but failed to grow crops for food. Ultimately they grow opium because it can handle the environment.
Assassinations and assassination attempts on officials are regular occurrences and US troops are also dying out there.
<a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/afghanistan/comment/story/0,11447,862649,00.html"; target="_blank">http://www.guardian.co.uk/afghanistan/comment/story/0,11447,862649,00.html</a>;
<a href="http://www.lewrockwell.com/elkins/elkins75.html"; target="_blank">http://www.lewrockwell.com/elkins/elkins75.html</a>;
How long will it take before the inevitable blowback comes back to haunt us...yet again? Anyone remember bin laden? or has the culture of the short attention span obliterated that memory too?
It is very easy to point fingers at Bush and say "you were short sighted and caused the opium trade to explode again", but that seems like a pretty lazy arguement.
Demonizing them for feeding the habits of our fat nation is ridiculous.
What other way do those who look down on them for opium production think they should maintain their existence. From all accounts they have no oil underneat their soil.
I find it funny that people dismiss the advances there when tons and tons of people are now in school. Education is arguably the most important part of an advanced society. This cannot be understimated.
They are drawing up their own constitution. They will be holding their own elections. Of course it's a bloody and bumpy road, anyone surprised by this is a fool, a blithering imbecile.
It's an unpopular stance to take but I think my beloved nation will have a positive influence on the people of Afghanistan. I feel that if we stick to them like we should we will have a very strong ally that is self-reliant, powerful and peaceful.
We have a chance here to correct many past wrongs, let's hope (and those of you who are into it, pray) that all goes well for those people.
I wish the same for the Iraqis.
From what I've gathered Afghanistan has never been a really first-rate industrialized nation (one reason education is very very important). An agricultural economy won't bring in money, it will feed your people (and I don't think there's a big starvation issue there) but it won't build your nation. Opium brings in lots of money.
I find myself worried that the administration will try to put pressure on that industry. It looks like the only viable economy they have so I'm not too eager about paying taxes to have them not grow opium.
<strong>I don't think it's that big of a deal that they grow an assload of opium. Someone's gotta get our boys their smack, after all, and those people have to eat.
Demonizing them for feeding the habits of our fat nation is ridiculous.
What other way do those who look down on them for opium production think they should maintain their existence. From all accounts they have no oil underneat their soil.
I find it funny that people dismiss the advances there when tons and tons of people are now in school. Education is arguably the most important part of an advanced society. This cannot be understimated.
They are drawing up their own constitution. They will be holding their own elections. Of course it's a bloody and bumpy road, anyone surprised by this is a fool, a blithering imbecile.
It's an unpopular stance to take but I think my beloved nation will have a positive influence on the people of Afghanistan. I feel that if we stick to them like we should we will have a very strong ally that is self-reliant, powerful and peaceful.
We have a chance here to correct many past wrongs, let's hope (and those of you who are into it, pray) that all goes well for those people.
I wish the same for the Iraqis.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I second you Groverat. I am not ashamed at how we have helped to transform this area of the world. As I said in another reply to another thread:
I listened to Hamid Karzai (Afghan President) give testimony to the United States Senate Foreign Relations Committee on the changes in Afghanistan. The Afghan people have a new currency that is stable now, 3,000,000 children are in school now including girls. There is a vast (((FREE)) media in Afghanistan now with over 100 newspapers in Kabul alone. Women now participate in the workplace and in university. A new constitution is being drafted and if ratified will be in place by October 2003. This will establish the new democracy and provide the roadmap for free elections set for 2004. There are still issues of extreme islam groups to be addressed within Afghanistan and when President Bush meets with President Karzai today (02/27/03) He will pledge continuing support to the country. The united states has already allocated three billion $US to Afghanistan and Bush will follow through with US support in the wake of an Iraq mission. Why do I bring up President Hamid Karzai? other than the good news he informed the the committee on he was asked a very specific question.... What was his view of the US stance in Iraq. He said that Iraq is a country of great faithful Muslims and that Afghanistan is a muslim country. However he said that he wishes for the Iraqi people what has happened to his country. He said Saddam has controlled his people and it time for them to be set free. The Taliban and Saddam haved much in common and the people of Iraq need to be set free from such control. Speaking of the Taliban read this story:
<a href="http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1035778281312&call_pag eid=968332188492&col=968705899037" target="_blank">Link 01</a>
The war on terrorism is ongoing and likewise with Iraq. The world must act on these evil people who lead terror movements because if they had WOMD they would not think twice to use them on us. This reality is true no matter who is in the White House. These people of hate could care less Democrat, Republican, etc. they hate America for what America is. They want to blow things up to get attention. The world can not afford this freak show the radical islamic terrorists want. We MUST act.
Fellowship
<strong>Why is a short-sighted, quasi-Fascist, red meat devouring, oil guzzling, no culture having, profanity using, flag waving, overweight McDonald's eatin, war-mongering, no historical context appreciating, 10 gallon hat wearing, French dissing, ultra conservative, deforestation loving American like yourself reading a European publication?</strong><hr></blockquote>
I resemble that remark.
Saying "opium is in their culture" is like saying that "marijuana is in Kentucky's culture." Neither is acceptable. Peoples move away from that kind of stuff if demand doesn't exist. China has been pretty effective at dealing with the demand issue.
Groverat, thanks for bringing up Michael Moore, that putz. The other thing I want to ask about was all the cries before Afghanistan about how it would take years to fight the Taliban (not rebuild the country) and we could have tens of thousands of losses. I wonder where all that talk went, and why no one is being held accountable for that kind of crap after the fact.
[ 03-01-2003: Message edited by: finboy ]</p>
That sort of movement, like the current anti-war movement, will be forgotten as quickly as it sprang up.
These are nothing more than social happenings, rallies for like-minded people to get together and pat each other on the back at.
It's like when you get too drunk and end up at some ugly chick's dorm room. You forget as soon as you can.
I also remember "Bush is putting us in another Vietnam!" posters and screams. I remember the talk about a "pipeline" that has yet to materialize in even the planning stages. Those that participated won't want to talk about it but I remember, and I'm glad you do, too.
<strong>
The other thing I want to ask about was all the cries before Afghanistan about how it would take years to fight the Taliban (not rebuild the country) and we could have tens of thousands of losses. I wonder where all that talk went, and why no one is being held accountable for that kind of crap after the fact. </strong><hr></blockquote>
1) We're still fighting the Taliban.
2) Although we didn't suffer 'tens of thousands of losses' (I don't know of anyone who actually thought that), we avoid military casualties at the expense of civilian lives. That is, we attack with bombs that kill indiscriminately. So although the phantoms were claiming we'd lose 'tens of thousands', their concerns were just misplaced. It would have been better to say 'we'll lose tens of thousands or we'll kill lots of civilians because we're too chicken-shit to actually put troops on the ground.
<strong>It would have been better to say 'we'll lose tens of thousands or we'll kill lots of civilians because we're too chicken-shit to actually put troops on the ground.</strong><hr></blockquote>
But we have troops on the ground in Afghanistan now?
<strong>
I resemble that remark.
Saying "opium is in their culture" is like saying that "marijuana is in Kentucky's culture." Neither is acceptable. Peoples move away from that kind of stuff if demand doesn't exist. China has been pretty effective at dealing with the demand issue.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Why is neither acceptable? Why are those drugs unacceptable and alcohol and tobacco perfectly OK?
<strong>
Why is neither acceptable? Why are those drugs unacceptable and alcohol and tobacco perfectly OK?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Because we say so.
<strong>
But we have troops on the ground in Afghanistan now?</strong><hr></blockquote>
It was a figure of speech.