Apple's legal win over HTC pushes some Chinese vendors toward Windows Phone 7

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  • Reply 21 of 45
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Antinous View Post


    From what I've read in the comments sections of related stories on Engadget and PCWorld, people are buying Android devices because they hate Apple. I mean EVERYTHING about Apple. I like Apple but I can kind of understand the other side's point-of-view. I can't stand being inside an Apple store. It just feels creepy to me.



    I neither understand the people that hate any company or why you think Apple Stores are creepy. Care to explain the latter?
  • Reply 22 of 45
    prof. peabodyprof. peabody Posts: 2,860member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by fecklesstechguy View Post


    ... If Redmond is smart they will use the Apple challenges to step in behind and say "hey guys listen, if you reduce or drop Android production, we'll give you an even better deal on WP7". ...



    Not that this has ever stopped Microsoft (or most companies), but this would technically be illegal (in most countries), if they did.
  • Reply 23 of 45
    island hermitisland hermit Posts: 6,217member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post


    Not that this has ever stopped Microsoft (or most companies), but this would technically be illegal (in most countries), if they did.



    Usually a company will just offer a much better deal... they usually don't have to ask to reduce or to kill the other guy's product... otherwise, as you say, that could cause a legal firestorm.
  • Reply 24 of 45
    prof. peabodyprof. peabody Posts: 2,860member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by island hermit View Post


    Do you really think the majority of Android phones are sold because of the OS? Really!? Not a chance. People are buying what is cheap and what is pushed at them in the store....



    This is a rarely mentioned and very under-appreciated fact.



    Anyone who knows anything about sales or even basic sociology knows that people will buy anything you shove at them for the most part, especially if you can convince them that "everyone else is buying it." Most consumers go to the local phone store and talk to exactly one person (the salesperson) before making a purchase decision.



    The consumers that pick on features, and make educated decisions based on their needs and the personal research they have done are really rare birds when you can find them at all. Even though we all *believe* we make informed reasoned decisions, and even though there are probably more people reading this forum who do this than average, most of us do not.



    Android sells because when you go to the phone store there are fifty Android phones and that's what the sales person is pushing. In my country, most phone places have a tiny iPhone display off to one side and the rest of the store is Blackberry and Android. They are being paid to promote Android and that's what they do.
  • Reply 25 of 45
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post


    This is a rarely mentioned and very under-appreciated fact.



    Anyone who knows anything about sales or even basic sociology knows that people will buy anything you shove at them for the most part, especially if you can convince them that "everyone else is buying it." Most consumers go to the local phone store and talk to exactly one person (the salesperson) before making a purchase decision.



    The consumers that pick on features, and make educated decisions based on their needs and the personal research they have done are really rare birds when you can find them at all. Even though we all *believe* we make informed reasoned decisions, and even though there are probably more people reading this forum who do this than average, most of us do not.



    Android sells because when you go to the phone store there are fifty Android phones and that's what the sales person is pushing. In my country, most phone places have a tiny iPhone display off to one side and the rest of the store is Blackberry and Android. They are being paid to promote Android and that's what they do.



    "It's just as good ? in fact better! ? you just aren't paying for the marketing like you are with Apple."
  • Reply 26 of 45
    antinousantinous Posts: 25member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    I neither understand the people that hate any company or why you think Apple Stores are creepy. Care to explain the latter?



    I think it's the fastidiousness of all of theinterior design that goes into the stores. In the stores everything is so self-consciously minimalistic. One other reader suggested that I look deep inside myself to try to ascertain why I feel this way. Another reader suggested that the stores' popularity were a near-perfect defense against any criticism. I just find the ambiance cold and sterile. It reminds me of Bang and Olufsen. It all gets just a little too "precious", in my opinion.



    It was just a throwaway observation. But I do shop at MacMall and CDW instead of the Apple store 3 miles from my house.
  • Reply 27 of 45
    island hermitisland hermit Posts: 6,217member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    "It's just as good — in fact better! — you just aren't paying for the marketing like you are with Apple."



    "iPhones have very bad reception problems."



    "I want an iPhone 4"
  • Reply 28 of 45
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Antinous View Post


    I think it's the fastidiousness of all of theinterior design that goes into the stores. In the stores everything is so self-consciously minimalistic. One other reader suggested that I look deep inside myself to try to ascertain why I feel this way. Another reader suggested that the stores' popularity were a near-perfect defense against any criticism. I just find the ambiance cold and sterile. It reminds me of Bang and Olufsen. It all gets just a little too "precious", in my opinion.



    It was just a throwaway observation. But I do shop at MacMall and CDW instead of the Apple store 3 miles from my house.



    I think the decor represents their HW, OS, apps and philosophy to a T. The was dying because it lost its focus, and was reborn and made its way to the top because of the fastidiousness that you despise.



    Despite the minimalism they take in more revenue per square foot than any retail outlet. They are effectively an anchor store in Malls yet have a fraction of the space. I bet they can command low rent from their leasers of this. The leasers can then charge higher rent to those that wish to be next to an Apple Store.



    They also have more than 1 billion visitors since they've opened and had their store design and layout samsungated by Microsoft, if not others.



    Personally, I like the stores. I don't like the setup of other electronic stores.
  • Reply 29 of 45
    z3r0z3r0 Posts: 230member
    If Android goes its highly likely that WebOS will take its place if not M$. RIM will be bought out.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Blastdoor View Post


    Apple needs to be careful here. Apple's goal should be to slow Android down, but not to kill it. If MS ever were to pull its head out of its a$$, it could be a much stronger competitor than Google.



  • Reply 30 of 45
    muncywebmuncyweb Posts: 157member
    Go Apple. People so easily forget history -- when the iPhone came out, how few touch-screen devices were there? Apple sets trends. These other companies just copy and rip off all their ideas. Sure, Apple should take it as a compliment that they are being copied. But honestly -- I had to laugh the other day when I saw the Droid's solution for the slider at the bottom of the screen. It's like a high-school student re-arranging sentences in a book report to avoid plagiarism. Hilarious! You know you've got the best idea when the other companies struggle to come up with anything better. Granted, I've seen a few good ideas in these other phones. But when you copy 80%, your R&D department has NO excuse not to improve on at least a couple of things, right?



    Here's an idea for you -- make a version of a smart phone that is extra thick. Call it the 'Extended Life Version'. Advertise it as the only smartphone that can run for a full week at maximum usage without a charge. Make it tough, easy to hold, and market it to the workaholics and blue-collar folks out there.
  • Reply 31 of 45
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    I think the decor represents their HW, OS, apps and philosophy to a T. The was dying because it lost its focus, and was reborn and made its way to the top because of the fastidiousness that you despise.



    Despite the minimalism they take in more revenue per square foot than any retail outlet. They are effectively an anchor store in Malls yet have a fraction of the space. I bet they can command low rent from their leasers of this. The leasers can then charge higher rent to those that wish to be next to an Apple Store.



    They also have more than 1 billion visitors since they've opened and had their store design and layout samsungated by Microsoft, if not others.



    Personally, I like the stores. I don't like the setup of other electronic stores.



    I don't "despise" Apple's fastidiousness. I don't despise their stores. I've always been treated very politely there. I think the "design" of the stores is affected, over-refined and pretentious. I think it is palpable and it is this quality that makes me feel uneasy. Whether a billion other people visit them doesn't alter that. I think Malls are creepy, too, if you want to explore that.
  • Reply 32 of 45
    negafoxnegafox Posts: 480member
    Really? Chinese white box vendors fear violating a patent? Isn't their purpose is to create cheap knock-offs in the first place?
  • Reply 33 of 45
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Antinous View Post


    I don't "despise" Apple's fastidiousness. I don't despise their stores. I've always been treated very politely there. I think the "design" of the stores is affected, over-refined and pretentious. I think it is palpable and it is this quality that makes me feel uneasy. Whether a billion other people visit them doesn't alter that. I think Malls are creepy, too, if you want to explore that.



    I think dollar stores are creepy, so I guess we each have our thing.



    edit: Maybe you've hit on something that is the core reason why some people seem to innately hate Apple without ever owning their products. Maybe the clean, refined and well thought-out design that defines Apple makes some feel uneasy.
  • Reply 34 of 45
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Antinous View Post


    I think Malls are creepy, too, if you want to explore that.



    I also think malls are creepy... but as an extension of that I also think cities are creepy.
  • Reply 35 of 45
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    edit: Maybe you've hit on something that is the core reason why some people seem to innately hate Apple without ever owning their products. Maybe the clean, refined and well thought-out design that defines Apple makes some feel uneasy.



    One look at my desk and anyone would realize that you can be creatively messy (or in my case... a slob) and still own Apple products...
  • Reply 36 of 45
    quinneyquinney Posts: 2,525member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by cloudgazer View Post


    I don't think that's Apple's gameplan here, but then I have a kinda crazy theory about this.



    <crazy theory>

    Apple wants to have the upper end of the smartphone market and key to that is maintaining a design differentiation between iPhone and competitors such as Android. The problem is that it lacks a legal tool that will let it do that, even design patents and trade dress take too long, by the time it's won the current Samsung case it will be time for the new model anyway.



    Suppose instead Apple forces competitors to license key patents, but grants them only a partial license that requires each model covered to be approved. Apple would then be in the position of being able to dictate to HTC or Samsung what their models of Android phone could and couldn't look like, and if the OEM disagreed Apple already has the ITC result in its pocket to get a fast exclusion order on importation.



    As far as I know this has not been done by a major tech patent holder, but from my limited research there's no reason why it couldn't be done. There's no statutary restriction on what a patent license agreement can or can't entail beyond those that would apply to any contract.

    </crazy theory>



    This type of arrangement would allow Apple and Samsung to reach some kind of detente where Samsung still supplies a lot of components to Apple and also produces handsets which don't disturb Apple. I have to say it is hard to imagine Samsung agreeing to this though. It would be like they were living in a hobo camp outside the walls of the utopian walled garden, occasionally requesting an audience with the garden keeper to deliver their flawless produce and ask permission to hawk their bruised and malformed stuff outside the gates.
  • Reply 37 of 45
    quinneyquinney Posts: 2,525member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by island hermit View Post


    I also think malls are creepy... but as an extension of that I also think cities are creepy.



    As Dr. Heiter says in "The Human Centipede (First Sequence)", "I don't like humans".
  • Reply 38 of 45
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    I think dollar stores are creepy, so I guess we each have our thing.



    edit: Maybe you've hit on something that is the core reason why some people seem to innately hate Apple without ever owning their products. Maybe the clean, refined and well thought-out design that defines Apple makes some feel uneasy.



    I've been using Apple products since 1987. The year you were born? I think my point was that the Apple stores' pretentious ambiance makes me feel uncomfortable. I never criticized their products here.
  • Reply 39 of 45
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Antinous View Post


    I've been using Apple products since 1987. The year you were born? I think my point was that the Apple stores' pretentious ambiance makes me feel uncomfortable. I never criticized their products here.



    1) "The year you were born?"? Really?!



    2) I didn't say nor imply you innately hated Apple. I drew a correlation between your feelings of creepiness for minimalistic and clean design with "some people" who do hate Apple without ever using their products. For my statement to include you, you would have to not be a customer of Apple.
  • Reply 40 of 45
    Apple = Monsanto
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