Apple rumored to eventually introduce ultra-thin 15-inch notebook

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  • Reply 81 of 159
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,388member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by fashionbug View Post


    Well, at least, optical drive should be offered as an option at purchase of a MBP. After all this is supposed to be a hi-end laptop, not a low end.



    And what makes you think having the slowest computer component on the market today makes something "high-end"? And who are you to define alone what "high-end" is?



    I would consider the next set of MacBook Pros to be bleeding edge only if they DIDN'T have an ODD. Otherwise it's dinosaur tech.
  • Reply 82 of 159
    Aren't MacBook pro considered by Apple the high end of their computer product line ?

    Considering the prices of MBP, I would think so.



    Like I said above, they should give their consumers the choice by offering an optical drive option (be it DVD drive, or bluray drive, which I doubt). The high prices of the MBP (I am talking about the 15" and the 17" screen models here) should warrant such a choice.



    However, the recent news from Apple tend to veer in the direction of dumbing down computer use as mere content consumption. Pity ! I am not interested in having a blown up "iPad" as a new computer. Looks like Apple is ubiquitously giving up on the professional in favor of the mass market consumer. I understand that they must appeal to the Joe Blogg consumer, but they should not forsake the professional user who cherishes a machine on which hardware is not scaled down.

    next thing we know, they will scaled down the Mac pro.



    The external optical drive might be A logical alternative for the mac mini, but I do not think it is for a laptop such as the MBP. the "pro" addition at the end iof Macbook is supposed to mean something, isn't it ?
  • Reply 83 of 159
    gyorpbgyorpb Posts: 93member
    Optical discs are dead as a writable medium. For the few still using them, external drives will do fine. There's no need for the vast majority of users, the optical drive is a waste of space and a dead weight.



    The thickness of the next line of MacBook Pro's will be dictated by the RJ45 connector, unless Apple manage to push through a smaller Ethernet connection standard before such time as they ship them.



    .tsooJ
  • Reply 84 of 159
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,388member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by gyorpb View Post


    The thickness of the next line of MacBook Pro's will be dictated by the RJ45 connector, unless Apple manage to push through a smaller Ethernet connection standard before such time as they ship them.



    Why do you need a real Ethernet port when Thunderbolt carries Ethernet? Just have five Thunderbolt ports, ship with a Thunderbolt-Ethernet dongle, and make available Thunderbolt to FireWire 800 and Thunderbolt to USB.
  • Reply 85 of 159
    mcarlingmcarling Posts: 1,106member
    Personally, I will never buy another laptop with an internal optical brick. I got so tired of lugging around my ultra-heavy 15" MacBook Pro that I just bought a 13" MacBook Air despite that I much prefer the 15" screen. What I really want is a 15" MacBook Air.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by fashionbug View Post


    Well, at least, optical drive should be offered as an option at purchase of a MBP. After all this is supposed to be a hi-end laptop, not a low end.



    If that logic were valid, all high-end laptops should offer an optional internal floppy drive.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by fashionbug View Post


    This would avoid the uproar.



    No, most of the uproar I'm seeing is over the idiocity represented by the inclusion of internal optical bricks in the MacBook Pro.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by fashionbug View Post


    I learned by experience that external devices are not as reliable as internal ones.



    Unless your data set includes more than 100 internal drive failures and more than 100 external drive failures, your data set has no statistical significance.
  • Reply 86 of 159
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


    Why do you need a real Ethernet port when Thunderbolt carries Ethernet? Just have five Thunderbolt ports, ship with a Thunderbolt-Ethernet dongle, and make available Thunderbolt to FireWire 800 and Thunderbolt to USB.



    It's a possibility, although dongles suck.



    .tsooJ
  • Reply 87 of 159
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    I would be extremely tempted by a 15" AIR, or maybe I should say an AIR like machine. A 15" machine does not need to be AIR thin and light, it really just needs to improve on the current unit.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mcarling View Post


    Personally, I will never buy another laptop with an internal optical brick. I got so tired of lugging around my ultra-heavy 15" MacBook Pro that I just bought a 13" MacBook Air despite that I much prefer the 15" screen. What I really want is a 15" MacBook Air.



    For me the larger screen is almost a requirement however that is not what really keeps me from buying an AIR. The lack of storage space is an immediate problem and the lack of a strong GPU coming in a close second. Given that though screen size is not as big of an issue.

    Quote:



    If that logic were valid, all high-end laptops should offer an optional internal floppy drive.





    No, most of the uproar I'm seeing is over the idiocity represented by the inclusion of internal optical bricks in the MacBook Pro.



    Yep. For the vast majority Of users the space could be better put to use in otherways. I only occasionally use the optical whereas many items end up installed in USB ports that could be better used internally.

    Quote:



    Unless your data set includes more than 100 internal drive failures and more than 100 external drive failures, your data set has no statistical significance.



    Actually this is the part of your post I call BS on. External drives live in a more harsh environment. That right there tips the scales against externals. On the otherhand an external optical is easy to fix simply by plugging in another.
  • Reply 88 of 159
    mcarlingmcarling Posts: 1,106member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post


    Actually this is the part of your post I call BS on. External drives live in a more harsh environment. That right there tips the scales against externals. On the otherhand an external optical is easy to fix simply by plugging in another.



    Your theory of why external drives may have higher failure rates does not specify how the environment is harsher. It seems to me that laptops and external drives for laptops survive or fail in the same environment. If anything, an external drive may sometimes be left at home or work while the laptop is getting banged around on a trip.



    Regardless of whether or not the data support or refute your theory, my observation that small data sets are not statistically significant is not BS.
  • Reply 89 of 159
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mcarling View Post


    Your theory of why external drives may have higher failure rates does not specify how the environment is harsher. It seems to me that laptops and external drives for laptops survive or fail in the same environment. If anything, an external drive may sometimes be left at home or work while the laptop is getting banged around on a trip.



    Regardless of whether or not the data support or refute your theory, my observation that small data sets are not statistically significant is not BS.



    Frankly your desire here to fall back on statistics is BS. As far as I know no one here runs a testing lab of any sort, all they have is personal experience to guide them.
  • Reply 90 of 159
    mcarlingmcarling Posts: 1,106member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post


    Frankly your desire here to fall back on statistics is BS. As far as I know no one here runs a testing lab of any sort, all they have is personal experience to guide them.



    The BS is making sweeping generalizations about reliability based only on limited personal experience.
  • Reply 91 of 159
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mcarling View Post


    The BS is making sweeping generalizations about reliability based only on limited personal experience.



    If you have a neighbor that buys a Chysler and tells you about all the issues he has had with it do you dismiss him completely? Your view point is worthless if you can't except that people have valid experiences.
  • Reply 92 of 159
    mcarlingmcarling Posts: 1,106member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post


    Reflecting on personal experience is not making sweeping generalizations.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by fashionbug View Post


    I learned by experience that external devices are not as reliable as internal ones.



    That is a sweeping generalization. The premise does not suffice to reach the conclusion. That does not mean that the premise is wrong, invalid, or useless. It just means that more data are needed to reach the conclusion.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post


    If you have a neighbor that buys a Chysler and tells you about all the issues he has had with it do you dismiss him completely? Your view point is worthless if you can't except that people have valid experiences.



    I never wrote that fashionbug or anyone else didn't have a valid experience. All I did is point out that very small data sets are not statistically significant. You've been trying to put words in my mouth in each of your last three posts to this thread and I don't appreciate it. I generally agree with most of what you post to this forum. You generally respond to what people have written, rather than making wild guesses about what you thought they may have meant to write. I don't understand why you've made an exception this time.
  • Reply 93 of 159
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mcarling View Post


    That is a sweeping generalization. The premise does not suffice to reach the conclusion. That does not mean that the premise is wrong, invalid, or useless. It just means that more data are needed to reach the conclusion.



    Let's just say that more data is required for you to make a conclusion. If I had a choice I'd opt for internal storage over external when I could. That is for user storage, backup and archiving are obviously different issues.

    Quote:



    I never wrote that fashionbug or anyone else didn't have a valid experience. All I did is point out that very small data sets are not statistically significant. You've been trying to put words in my mouth in each of your last three posts to this thread and I don't appreciate it.



    Maybe it is my misinterpretation of what you have said and implied. In any event it does very much look like you are trying to invalidate is point of view.

    Quote:

    I generally agree with most of what you post to this forum. You generally respond to what people have written, rather than making wild guesses about what you thought they may have meant to write. I don't understand why you've made an exception this time.



    I don't feel that I'm making an axception here at all. Just remove the concept of statistics from this discussion for a minute. Back in the day I had a friend that refused to buy AMD hardware after having a bad experience with one motherboard. Does that make sense? It certainly didn't to me as I was running one fine at the time. Had he had serial problems with multiple boards I might have understood.



    Now for a different perspective, I've owned two Chysler products over my life time, both have been absolute crap after experiencing them for a few years. After the last one I've made a decision never again buy another. Using your rational you would say that is far to few data points. I'd disagree because through ownership you gather insight into the mentality of the company, it's design practices and quality systems. More so you have readily available benchmarks in other vehicles to judge the unit you own against. In the end you don't need a lot of data points to judge the quality of a vehicle, all you really need to understand is where the state of the art is with the industry and how that vehicle you own fails in comparison.



    For those wondering the two Chrysler vehicles I owned where great concepts but so poorly executed as to make me question my purchases in the first place. One was the original Cherokee model when they went to the Unibody construction. The other was a 2001 Dodge Dakota. As you can see quite a few years passed between the two. In concept each was an excellent "idea" but poorly executed. The Cherokee had a very poor excuse for an engine and the Dakota broke right and left.
  • Reply 94 of 159
    mcarlingmcarling Posts: 1,106member
    It is perfectly valid, normal, and reasonable for people to avoid products after one or two bad experiences. People are biologically programmed to be risk averse and, more significantly, to avoid things for which they can be blamed. I (and, according to researchers, most people) feel extremely stupid when we make the same mistake two or three times. We can let ourselves off the psychological hook if we buy a different product and have a similar bad experience. ("I didn't know.")



    However, all of this is within the realm of Product X might be bad and therefore I'm going to avoid it. It doesn't even rise to Product X might be bad and therefore everyone else should also avoid it. It is far, far from Product X is bad. To get to Product X might be bad, one or two data points suffice. To get to Product X is probably bad requires hundreds of data points. To get to Product X is bad generally requires at least thousands of data points.





    Quote:
    Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post


    Maybe it is my misinterpretation of what you have said and implied.



    I don't imply anything on this forum. I always try to be as explicit as possible. I write what I mean and I mean what I write. Anything else is the occasional typo.
  • Reply 95 of 159
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mcarling View Post


    It is perfectly valid, normal, and reasonable for people to avoid products after one or two bad experiences. People are biologically programmed to be risk averse and, more significantly, to avoid things for which they can be blamed. I (and, according to researchers, most people) feel extremely stupid when we make the same mistake two or three times. We can let ourselves off the psychological hook if we buy a different product and have a similar bad experience. ("I didn't know.")



    However, all of this is within the realm of Product X might be bad and therefore I'm going to avoid it. It doesn't even rise to Product X might be bad and therefore everyone else should also avoid it. It is far, far from Product X is bad. To get to Product X might be bad, one or two data points suffice. To get to Product X is probably bad requires hundreds of data points. To get to Product X is bad generally requires at least thousands of data points.







    I don't imply anything on this forum. I always try to be as explicit as possible. I write what I mean and I mean what I write. Anything else is the occasional typo.



    my external drives have constantly failed me over the years, with them all being kept in drop-proof packaging (although i have never dropped any of them). external drives also have less stable connections due to the power supply through USB2.0, and often the cables that come with the hard drives and optical drives are of medium quality. Drives that I purchase are from big name companies like Sony, Samsung, Seagate, and WD. screw statistics, 80% of statistics aren't trustworthy.
  • Reply 96 of 159
    I don't now about anyone else, but the removal of discdrives and mov3e to flash storage fills me with dread. I work in regular offices where many things are stored on DVD, where I may need to burn audio from a CD, store very large moviefiles etc. Let's not even start on home use and storing movies, pictures and music, let alone watching bluray!



    Those things are just everyday, they aren't relics of the past but factual uses of the present. Ripping everything out for the sake of form and instant access is just annoying for me. Yes, you can get an external DVD burner, HDD and even bluray, but it's pretty far off the idea of an 'i' computer that serves all your needs, and just adds to the weight and inconvenience of carting it all around.



    Having said all that, I'll be buying a new MacBook Pro on release regardless. My office may be in the present, but I'll do my bit for the progression of mankind, even if it all does feel like a half-way house right now.
  • Reply 97 of 159
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by womblingfree View Post


    I don't now about anyone else, but the removal of discdrives and mov3e to flash storage fills me with dread.



    It's the slowest part of your computer.



    Quote:

    I work in regular offices where many things are stored on DVD, where I may need to burn audio from a CD, store very large moviefiles etc.



    Even USB drives are faster than that for large files, not to mention we'll eventually have Thunderbolt drives.



    Quote:

    Let's not even start on home use and storing movies, pictures and music,



    And NAND flash storage (USB/Thunderbolt drives) are tons faster.



    Quote:

    let alone watching bluray!



    Dude, a 1080p movie rip is 4GB. You can grab a 4GB flash drive for nothing and a three terabyte hard drive to store a ton of them for even less per GB.



    No loading times. But you'd rather have to wait three minutes to watch the movie from a disc? Okay?



    Quote:

    Those things are just everyday, they aren't relics of the past but factual uses of the present.



    No, they're relics of the past. Optical drives slow as frick and need to die.



    Quote:

    Ripping everything out for the sake of form and instant access is just annoying for me.



    Removing unnecessary clutter to make your machine faster is "annoying"?
  • Reply 98 of 159
    Point is Tallest, I don't want to be carrying external drives and external DVD/Bluray drives round with me. This stuff may be legacy one-day and we'll all have Terabytes of data on Flash, Thunderbolt pen-drives and Cloud storage and all movies will be downloaded to multiple devices very cheaply to keep forever, but it sure isn't the case anywhere I've ever worked or lived, which means carting around all the external stuff.



    I'd like an all in one computer that can deal the stuff I'm presented with today. My old Macs could do all this, just like an electronic Swiss Army knife. Like I said, feels like a bit of a half-way house for the next year or two until flash storage becomes significantly cheaper. Like when I was editing Digital Video but only had a Zip drive to save everything to. Don't worry, CD burners are much better! They were, still had two years of those flipping Zip discs though.
  • Reply 99 of 159
    Apple aren't going to build computers with everything and the kitchen sink built in for you and the (very) few users that want them, if the majority of buyers don't want them.



    And stop storing your precious photo's on DVD's. They'll be lost forever, soon.



    .tsooJ
  • Reply 100 of 159
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by gyorpb View Post


    stop storing your precious photo's on DVD's. They'll be lost forever, soon.



    .tsooJ



    I've not stored anything on DVD for years! But the idea that people using discs are 'the few' is nonsense. It's currently 'the few' who have no need for them and know what a Thunderbolt is. It's the fact that everywhere I go I'm likely to deal with them that's the problem, so have to lug around external hdd's and drives. As I said, far from the all in one solutions and portability I used to associate with Apple. Ideally I'd like iMac specs in something the size of a wafer, rather than the beefy iPhone specs of the Airs. I'm getting one of the new round of MBPs whatever, life's too short to be waiting!
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