Now you're just being silly - of course an HTC exec is going to insist that they're not infringing, an Apple exec or lawyer would insist that they aren't either. No firm will ever admit that it is or even might be infringing IP until after the ink is dry on the licensing agreement or the judgement has been handed down in the courts. It would be a monumental cock-up to admit it in public beforehand.
I agree with you... but, that wasn't the point of my statement.
You're obviously trolling, but I'll bite anyway...
Apple has had its hands in UNIX since the late 80's when they developed A/UX; a UNIX based operating system for their Macintosh computers. They also started the mkLinux project in the mid 90's in an attempt to port Linux to the PowerPC / Mach kernel. Then in 1996 Apple bought a company called NeXT, who's operating system, NextStep, was developed in the mid 80's and was a fork of BSD 4.2 or 4.3. Mac OS X is actually based off NeXT's operating system, but with major changes. Then around 2002 or 2003 Apple released the BSD (UNIX) layer of OS X called Darwin as an open source project. Anyone who knew UNIX could easily see that the system was vastly different from the "standard" BSD distributions at the time. (I know, I used it as web server and network router for a couple of years and finding documentation was extremely difficult.)
So yeah, they've even spent a lot of time and resources on UNIX.
However, from 1984 through 2001 Apple developed the Mac OS, which was not UNIX. Also, from the 80's until the late 90's they developed the Newton OS, which was also not UNIX. The patents HTC was found guilty of violating were from 1996, and the IP was used both in the Mac OS and Newton OS. Furthermore, they also developed DOS and ProDOS for their Apple II computers and they developed the Lisa OS, which was much more advanced than even the Mac OS when it was first released a year later.
So I'd say that Apple has invested a lot in operating system development for a very long time now, in fact, even longer than Microsoft.
Well said. Everyone wants to make this into a game of the chicken or the egg but there is absolutely no question here that Apple has been in the mobile device game for a lot longer than HTC, and we all know the iPhone was first of it's kind to market. When you follow in someone else's footsteps it is your responsibility to make sure you don't step on their heels. If you want to pass someone blazing a trail like Apple wait for them to slow down & then sprint.
Apple has fought it's way back from the dead & they did so by pushing the market, without them HTC & others would still be pushing crappy BBerry competitors & Win Mobile 7 may never have been born. Everyone sat around for like 10 years saying Apple was going to be a passing fad & then all of a sudden Apple is kicking their tail and so they are whining about it. Big bad Apple, shame on them for doing what others could not.
All the Apple haters need to recognize what the market was before Apple became a serious force to be reckoned with, the state of the smart phone and tablet was a pathetic joke.
A series of such royalty fees hitting Android makers could result in making the ostensibly free software more expensive in the long run than custom development. A variety of Android licensees, ranging from Samsung to Motorola, already have or are rumored to be developing their own software independently from Android to hedge such an outcome.
The problem is not how much it would cost to create a new OS but would developers support it. No apps and you are dead in the water. The market can support more than one OS but it cannot support every hardware company having it's own unique OS.
So for most hardware companies their best option is to use a common OS, which right now is either Android (which does have costs but can at least be customized to differentiate it from all the other phones out there) or Windows Phone which is not free and cannot be customized.
Even if Microsoft, Apple and Oracle all demand a cut, Android is probably still the best bet for other manufacturers.
Except it is Android that is the problem so could Apple let HTC have some agreement without letting Android of the hook? That's the bigger fish.
Yes, S3 is only going to save HTC (if even them) - but any of the other android firms could turn out to have their own ace in the hole. HTC was the best bet for a firm that had no defence at all because they're a very new entrant.
If Apple had killed them off then it would have poisoned Android for ZTE and others, at least for the US market. They'd have been sent back to the drawing board. As it is they're still probably pretty skittish.
All of their current Macs are shipping with either ATI or Intel HD Graphics, so Apple shipments aren't affected in any way right?
Funny that HTC purchased $300 million for nothing.
Intel has a cross-license with VIA and its S3 tech that HTC now acquired. Apple has AMD Graphics in it's models. AMD has no S3Texture issues. ATI no longer exists.
Apple is infringing as it's OS hasn't licensed tech that it's using for the OS to still work on older ATi cards.
I think apple will have to come to a deal with HTC and othe android device makers if they win their claims agains HTC.
HTC and Samsung are the of apples biggest competitors in the US at the moment, and so their might be some anti-competative pressure on apple to licence and not ban. And Symbiam was always nothing in the US and windows is loosing market share in most places despite Phone 7.
Of course I am no lawyer and not even American. Maybe some of the legally aware Americans can provide some comment.
Yeah right, cos put a very nice, (normal) user friendly GUI on top of Unix is really easy. Seeing as how every Linux desktop GUI I've used as quite nasty and overly complicated, there has been significant investment by Apple, on that front alone.
You did notice that this was a case in which Apple was the defendant right?
I betcha most people here don't care. Interesting that, in this thread, no one is calling out Apple for their infringement. No one is calling them thieves.
Yes I did notice that... Sorry, I thought it was obvious I was referring to HTC's statement, "HTC is disappointed at Apple's constant attempts at litigations instead of competing fairly in the market", apparently it wasn't that obvious!?
At this point it's safe to say that Apple can compete fairly, and not only that, demonstrate their ability to steer markets in new directions.
I'd also like to point out this statement from HTC, "HTC strongly denies all infringement claims by Apple in the past and present..."
Uh, HTC didn't develop Android, how could they possibly know if Android doesn't violate another company's IP. They, in fact, KNOW IT DOES. Why else are they paying Microsoft a royalty for every Android device they sell!?
These are PR statements. It's pointless to discern facts and intentions from them.
What for? The patent has nothing to do with AMD. The reference to Nvidia deals with a cross-licensing agreement that goes back to 2000.
Because every NVDIA using device is non-infringing of course. The patent has nothing to do with AMD, but by replacing discrete graphics with NVIDIA they can reduce the scope of infringement significantly.
I betcha most people here don't care. Interesting that, in this thread, no one is calling out Apple for their infringement. No one is calling them thieves.
Well that's to be expected, I'm more perplexed by the way that people seem to be misreading the result as being a win for Apple. The revenue of affected product is probably around the same as HTCs total revenue!
Well said. Everyone wants to make this into a game of the chicken or the egg but there is absolutely no question here that Apple has been in the mobile device game for a lot longer than HTC, and we all know the iPhone was first of it's kind to market. When you follow in someone else's footsteps it is your responsibility to make sure you don't step on their heels. If you want to pass someone blazing a trail like Apple wait for them to slow down & then sprint.
Apple has fought it's way back from the dead & they did so by pushing the market, without them HTC & others would still be pushing crappy BBerry competitors & Win Mobile 7 may never have been born. Everyone sat around for like 10 years saying Apple was going to be a passing fad & then all of a sudden Apple is kicking their tail and so they are whining about it. Big bad Apple, shame on them for doing what others could not.
All the Apple haters need to recognize what the market was before Apple became a serious force to be reckoned with, the state of the smart phone and tablet was a pathetic joke.
Absolutely. All smart phones and PDAs descend from the Newton. The term PDA did not even exist before the Newton, and was first used publicly by John Sculley. All of these people claiming prior art on all Apples patents simply do not understand the role Apple has played in the development of technology.
Comments
Now you're just being silly - of course an HTC exec is going to insist that they're not infringing, an Apple exec or lawyer would insist that they aren't either. No firm will ever admit that it is or even might be infringing IP until after the ink is dry on the licensing agreement or the judgement has been handed down in the courts. It would be a monumental cock-up to admit it in public beforehand.
I agree with you... but, that wasn't the point of my statement.
You're obviously trolling, but I'll bite anyway...
Apple has had its hands in UNIX since the late 80's when they developed A/UX; a UNIX based operating system for their Macintosh computers. They also started the mkLinux project in the mid 90's in an attempt to port Linux to the PowerPC / Mach kernel. Then in 1996 Apple bought a company called NeXT, who's operating system, NextStep, was developed in the mid 80's and was a fork of BSD 4.2 or 4.3. Mac OS X is actually based off NeXT's operating system, but with major changes. Then around 2002 or 2003 Apple released the BSD (UNIX) layer of OS X called Darwin as an open source project. Anyone who knew UNIX could easily see that the system was vastly different from the "standard" BSD distributions at the time. (I know, I used it as web server and network router for a couple of years and finding documentation was extremely difficult.)
So yeah, they've even spent a lot of time and resources on UNIX.
However, from 1984 through 2001 Apple developed the Mac OS, which was not UNIX. Also, from the 80's until the late 90's they developed the Newton OS, which was also not UNIX. The patents HTC was found guilty of violating were from 1996, and the IP was used both in the Mac OS and Newton OS. Furthermore, they also developed DOS and ProDOS for their Apple II computers and they developed the Lisa OS, which was much more advanced than even the Mac OS when it was first released a year later.
So I'd say that Apple has invested a lot in operating system development for a very long time now, in fact, even longer than Microsoft.
Well said. Everyone wants to make this into a game of the chicken or the egg but there is absolutely no question here that Apple has been in the mobile device game for a lot longer than HTC, and we all know the iPhone was first of it's kind to market. When you follow in someone else's footsteps it is your responsibility to make sure you don't step on their heels. If you want to pass someone blazing a trail like Apple wait for them to slow down & then sprint.
Apple has fought it's way back from the dead & they did so by pushing the market, without them HTC & others would still be pushing crappy BBerry competitors & Win Mobile 7 may never have been born. Everyone sat around for like 10 years saying Apple was going to be a passing fad & then all of a sudden Apple is kicking their tail and so they are whining about it. Big bad Apple, shame on them for doing what others could not.
All the Apple haters need to recognize what the market was before Apple became a serious force to be reckoned with, the state of the smart phone and tablet was a pathetic joke.
I guess HTC bought themselves a "get out of jail free card" with their S3 purchase. Now both Apple and HTC have each other by the berries.
Except it is Android that is the problem so could Apple let HTC have some agreement without letting Android of the hook? That's the bigger fish.
A series of such royalty fees hitting Android makers could result in making the ostensibly free software more expensive in the long run than custom development. A variety of Android licensees, ranging from Samsung to Motorola, already have or are rumored to be developing their own software independently from Android to hedge such an outcome.
The problem is not how much it would cost to create a new OS but would developers support it. No apps and you are dead in the water. The market can support more than one OS but it cannot support every hardware company having it's own unique OS.
So for most hardware companies their best option is to use a common OS, which right now is either Android (which does have costs but can at least be customized to differentiate it from all the other phones out there) or Windows Phone which is not free and cannot be customized.
Even if Microsoft, Apple and Oracle all demand a cut, Android is probably still the best bet for other manufacturers.
Does Apple look to HTC like it has any reason to fear competing fairly in the market?
Except it is Android that is the problem so could Apple let HTC have some agreement without letting Android of the hook? That's the bigger fish.
Yes, S3 is only going to save HTC (if even them) - but any of the other android firms could turn out to have their own ace in the hole. HTC was the best bet for a firm that had no defence at all because they're a very new entrant.
If Apple had killed them off then it would have poisoned Android for ZTE and others, at least for the US market. They'd have been sent back to the drawing board. As it is they're still probably pretty skittish.
Hmm, depends how quickly Apple can switch to using NVDIA chipasets
What for? The patent has nothing to do with AMD. The reference to Nvidia deals with a cross-licensing agreement that goes back to 2000.
All of their current Macs are shipping with either ATI or Intel HD Graphics, so Apple shipments aren't affected in any way right?
Funny that HTC purchased $300 million for nothing.
Intel has a cross-license with VIA and its S3 tech that HTC now acquired. Apple has AMD Graphics in it's models. AMD has no S3Texture issues. ATI no longer exists.
Apple is infringing as it's OS hasn't licensed tech that it's using for the OS to still work on older ATi cards.
Someone in HTC's management is going to get fired for this.
HTC and Samsung are the of apples biggest competitors in the US at the moment, and so their might be some anti-competative pressure on apple to licence and not ban. And Symbiam was always nothing in the US and windows is loosing market share in most places despite Phone 7.
Of course I am no lawyer and not even American. Maybe some of the legally aware Americans can provide some comment.
Hmm, depends how quickly Apple can switch to using NVDIA chipasets
They can't can they, at least not if they want to use Sandy Bridge?
You mean like UNIX?
Yeah right, cos put a very nice, (normal) user friendly GUI on top of Unix is really easy. Seeing as how every Linux desktop GUI I've used as quite nasty and overly complicated, there has been significant investment by Apple, on that front alone.
You did notice that this was a case in which Apple was the defendant right?
I betcha most people here don't care. Interesting that, in this thread, no one is calling out Apple for their infringement. No one is calling them thieves.
Yes I did notice that... Sorry, I thought it was obvious I was referring to HTC's statement, "HTC is disappointed at Apple's constant attempts at litigations instead of competing fairly in the market", apparently it wasn't that obvious!?
At this point it's safe to say that Apple can compete fairly, and not only that, demonstrate their ability to steer markets in new directions.
I'd also like to point out this statement from HTC, "HTC strongly denies all infringement claims by Apple in the past and present..."
Uh, HTC didn't develop Android, how could they possibly know if Android doesn't violate another company's IP. They, in fact, KNOW IT DOES. Why else are they paying Microsoft a royalty for every Android device they sell!?
These are PR statements. It's pointless to discern facts and intentions from them.
What for? The patent has nothing to do with AMD. The reference to Nvidia deals with a cross-licensing agreement that goes back to 2000.
Because every NVDIA using device is non-infringing of course. The patent has nothing to do with AMD, but by replacing discrete graphics with NVIDIA they can reduce the scope of infringement significantly.
They can't can they, at least not if they want to use Sandy Bridge?
Yeh, the intel integrated graphics machines are a tougher nut to crack.
All of their current Macs are shipping with either ATI or Intel HD Graphics, so Apple shipments aren't affected in any way right?
Funny that HTC purchased $300 million for nothing.
Other way around.
'further noted that Macs using Nvidia graphics chips have an implied license to use the patents'
Nvidia chipset OS-X devices are safe from the suit, others are not.
I betcha most people here don't care. Interesting that, in this thread, no one is calling out Apple for their infringement. No one is calling them thieves.
Well that's to be expected, I'm more perplexed by the way that people seem to be misreading the result as being a win for Apple. The revenue of affected product is probably around the same as HTCs total revenue!
Well said. Everyone wants to make this into a game of the chicken or the egg but there is absolutely no question here that Apple has been in the mobile device game for a lot longer than HTC, and we all know the iPhone was first of it's kind to market. When you follow in someone else's footsteps it is your responsibility to make sure you don't step on their heels. If you want to pass someone blazing a trail like Apple wait for them to slow down & then sprint.
Apple has fought it's way back from the dead & they did so by pushing the market, without them HTC & others would still be pushing crappy BBerry competitors & Win Mobile 7 may never have been born. Everyone sat around for like 10 years saying Apple was going to be a passing fad & then all of a sudden Apple is kicking their tail and so they are whining about it. Big bad Apple, shame on them for doing what others could not.
All the Apple haters need to recognize what the market was before Apple became a serious force to be reckoned with, the state of the smart phone and tablet was a pathetic joke.
Absolutely. All smart phones and PDAs descend from the Newton. The term PDA did not even exist before the Newton, and was first used publicly by John Sculley. All of these people claiming prior art on all Apples patents simply do not understand the role Apple has played in the development of technology.