" Bush sees that he is "battling the Evil Axis" in the name of God . . . . "
Well you know leaders when they are starting to lose it often turn to more mystical or religious beliefs. Sort of grasping at straws.
Take Hitler for example.
I once watched an interview with Werner Von Braun about his days working for the german military. He said he met with Hitler twice. Once at the begining of the war where he seems like a logical and intelligent leader. Then once at the end of the war where he seemed to go off the deep end. According to Von Braun he would leap from one end of the table to the other holding on to the edge with a maniacle light in his eyes. Waiting to see him after Von Braun was Hitler's chief Astrologist.
i would call myself liberal and i take offense to fellowships characterization of liberals. i agree that there are many under this banner who would see to it not to hear other opinions but this is a commonality of segments of all opinionated groups. its easier to make yourself heard if you are the only ones speaking.
we will not be attacking iran. or any other islamic nation. note well that iraq is a secular state. note that very well. there is only one way to win the "war" for universal US acceptance and that involves taking the debate away from religion... religion is as always a touchy issue...
<strong>" Bush sees that he is "battling the Evil Axis" in the name of God . . . . "
Well you know leaders when they are starting to lose it often turn to more mystical or religious beliefs. Sort of grasping at straws.
Take Hitler for example.
I once watched an interview with Werner Von Braun about his days working for the german military. He said he met with Hitler twice. Once at the begining of the war where he seems like a logical and intelligent leader. Then once at the end of the war where he seemed to go off the deep end. According to Von Braun he would leap from one end of the table to the other holding on to the edge with a maniacle light in his eyes. Waiting to see him after Von Braun was Hitler's chief Astrologist.
oh BTW for the anti-thought left out there BUSH NEVER SAID HE AS ACTING THE THE NAME OF GOD. Little fact that that was not made clear at the top of this thread.
my only addition to this war talk thing is that without a pounding of the war drums the resolutions would be ineffective... but to go to war means that any future resolutions are meaningless because no nation would be able to safely believe that they are not going to be attacked anyway... its a fine line and the heavy handed tactics of the current US administration has failed to use their diplomacy well.
<strong>... but to go to war means that any future resolutions are meaningless because no nation would be able to safely believe that they are not going to be attacked anyway...</strong><hr></blockquote>
...if they are being as evasive as Saddam under conditions of unconditional disarmament. If you are all about unabashed compliance, prior precedence has shown that doing so will not result in an attack. I view the message that being evasive and dishonest with regard to compliance drawing truly "serious repercussions" as a good thing. Don't like the time, don't do the crime (and especially don't waffle and filibuster for 12 years saying you will "comply"). The days of an ineffectual and manipulatible UN are numbered...
<strong>Iran has a history of funding, training and supplying terrorists. Iran has no need for a nuclear reactor for energy. I read somewhere that the amount of oil they flare off annually would provide more energy than the nuke reactor they have going. So, if the purpose is military grade materials, is the world obliged to do something?
.</strong><hr></blockquote>Oh look . . .isn't it handy . . . you've already been provided with a nice little excuse . . . I mean argument, in favor
oh BTW for the anti-thought left out there BUSH NEVER SAID HE AS ACTING THE THE NAME OF GOD. Little fact that that was not made clear at the top of this thread.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Here are some quotes from an article called How a Crusade Became a War
[quote] "Events aren't moved by blind change and chance" he has said, but by "the hand of a just and faithful God." From the outset he has been convinced that his presidency is part of a divine plan, even telling a friend while he was governor of Texas, "I believe God wants me to run for president." <hr></blockquote>
I think this implies that not only does he think that God guides things but that God has chosen him for his mission . . . and therefore, since its God's choice, he can be without reflection and doubt . . . it must be "just"
Its all good, its God's work.
I know that (or at least I hope that) this is merely rhetoric on Bush's part, otherwise we have the possible inklings of a belief that his hands are guided by divine providence and can do no wrong . . . (what other recent well known figure thought the same thing....*ehem* =OBL)
[quote] In his State of the Union addresses and other public forums, he has presented himself as the leader of a global war against evil. As for a war in Iraq, "we do not claim to know all the ways of Providence, yet we can trust in them." God is at work in world affairs, he says, calling for the United States to lead a liberating crusade in the Middle East, and "this call of history has come to the right country." <hr></blockquote>It is not men who wield the war in Iraq, according to the quote from Bush, but God himself . . . ?!!?!?! <img src="graemlins/surprised.gif" border="0" alt="[surprised]" /> Providence is at work, don't doubt, trust!
History is working through us, God is working through us . . . that is exactly what he says that he believes
Its exacctly the same kind of rhetoric that justified the slaughter of the Indians as we expanded westward . . it even had the name of Manifest Destiny
Maybe you never thought critically about that term, but really what it is is a way of feeling better for wholesale slaughter and theft . . . God had nothing to do with our free decision to kill Indians and take the land
Just as it is not God marching us to war it is a fallible administration with possible megolomaniacal ideas about the divinity of his mission
Like I said, I hope its only rhetoric, used to sway the people into believing we are righteous in a world where "not one is Righteous" -(JC)
oh BTW for the anti-thought left out there BUSH NEVER SAID HE AS ACTING THE THE NAME OF GOD. Little fact that that was not made clear at the top of this thread.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Sorry if I got under your skin with my little story.
<strong>Oh look . . .isn't it handy . . . you've already been provided with a nice little excuse . . . I mean argument, in favor</strong><hr></blockquote>
um...yes you are right, I have provided Bush with an excuse for attacking Iran
So, if the UN/world does take actions against Iran (diplomatic, military, whatever),as my post actually said, you would be against it? I mean, just because there are credible reasons, doesn't mean anything should be done right? Play yer fiddle boy.
<strong>Man I can't wait until the next election! History will look on Bush as america's little mistake.</strong><hr></blockquote>Not if it is a "butterfly ballot"
I wish our next president was FDR again. I dunno about you but my FDR action figure is already in the mail...
PS: Some of you guys really need to loosen up. Learn to accept some things as comedy. If the world leaders were as jumpy as some of you on this board we would all be screwed...
Comments
Well you know leaders when they are starting to lose it often turn to more mystical or religious beliefs. Sort of grasping at straws.
Take Hitler for example.
I once watched an interview with Werner Von Braun about his days working for the german military. He said he met with Hitler twice. Once at the begining of the war where he seems like a logical and intelligent leader. Then once at the end of the war where he seemed to go off the deep end. According to Von Braun he would leap from one end of the table to the other holding on to the edge with a maniacle light in his eyes. Waiting to see him after Von Braun was Hitler's chief Astrologist.
[ 03-11-2003: Message edited by: jimmac ]</p>
we will not be attacking iran. or any other islamic nation. note well that iraq is a secular state. note that very well. there is only one way to win the "war" for universal US acceptance and that involves taking the debate away from religion... religion is as always a touchy issue...
<strong>" Bush sees that he is "battling the Evil Axis" in the name of God . . . . "
Well you know leaders when they are starting to lose it often turn to more mystical or religious beliefs. Sort of grasping at straws.
Take Hitler for example.
I once watched an interview with Werner Von Braun about his days working for the german military. He said he met with Hitler twice. Once at the begining of the war where he seems like a logical and intelligent leader. Then once at the end of the war where he seemed to go off the deep end. According to Von Braun he would leap from one end of the table to the other holding on to the edge with a maniacle light in his eyes. Waiting to see him after Von Braun was Hitler's chief Astrologist.
[ 03-11-2003: Message edited by: jimmac ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
Yea that's relevant
oh BTW for the anti-thought left out there BUSH NEVER SAID HE AS ACTING THE THE NAME OF GOD. Little fact that that was not made clear at the top of this thread.
<strong>... but to go to war means that any future resolutions are meaningless because no nation would be able to safely believe that they are not going to be attacked anyway...</strong><hr></blockquote>
...if they are being as evasive as Saddam under conditions of unconditional disarmament. If you are all about unabashed compliance, prior precedence has shown that doing so will not result in an attack. I view the message that being evasive and dishonest with regard to compliance drawing truly "serious repercussions" as a good thing. Don't like the time, don't do the crime (and especially don't waffle and filibuster for 12 years saying you will "comply"). The days of an ineffectual and manipulatible UN are numbered...
[ 03-11-2003: Message edited by: Randycat99 ]</p>
<strong>Iran has a history of funding, training and supplying terrorists. Iran has no need for a nuclear reactor for energy. I read somewhere that the amount of oil they flare off annually would provide more energy than the nuke reactor they have going. So, if the purpose is military grade materials, is the world obliged to do something?
.</strong><hr></blockquote>Oh look . . .isn't it handy . . . you've already been provided with a nice little excuse . . . I mean argument, in favor
<strong>
Yea that's relevant
oh BTW for the anti-thought left out there BUSH NEVER SAID HE AS ACTING THE THE NAME OF GOD. Little fact that that was not made clear at the top of this thread.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Here are some quotes from an article called How a Crusade Became a War
[quote] "Events aren't moved by blind change and chance" he has said, but by "the hand of a just and faithful God." From the outset he has been convinced that his presidency is part of a divine plan, even telling a friend while he was governor of Texas, "I believe God wants me to run for president." <hr></blockquote>
I think this implies that not only does he think that God guides things but that God has chosen him for his mission . . . and therefore, since its God's choice, he can be without reflection and doubt . . . it must be "just"
Its all good, its God's work.
I know that (or at least I hope that) this is merely rhetoric on Bush's part, otherwise we have the possible inklings of a belief that his hands are guided by divine providence and can do no wrong . . . (what other recent well known figure thought the same thing....*ehem* =OBL)
[quote] In his State of the Union addresses and other public forums, he has presented himself as the leader of a global war against evil. As for a war in Iraq, "we do not claim to know all the ways of Providence, yet we can trust in them." God is at work in world affairs, he says, calling for the United States to lead a liberating crusade in the Middle East, and "this call of history has come to the right country." <hr></blockquote>It is not men who wield the war in Iraq, according to the quote from Bush, but God himself . . . ?!!?!?! <img src="graemlins/surprised.gif" border="0" alt="[surprised]" /> Providence is at work, don't doubt, trust!
History is working through us, God is working through us . . . that is exactly what he says that he believes
Its exacctly the same kind of rhetoric that justified the slaughter of the Indians as we expanded westward . . it even had the name of Manifest Destiny
Maybe you never thought critically about that term, but really what it is is a way of feeling better for wholesale slaughter and theft . . . God had nothing to do with our free decision to kill Indians and take the land
Just as it is not God marching us to war it is a fallible administration with possible megolomaniacal ideas about the divinity of his mission
Like I said, I hope its only rhetoric, used to sway the people into believing we are righteous in a world where "not one is Righteous" -(JC)
[ 03-11-2003: Message edited by: pfflam ]</p>
...um...i have a friend named holly.
she's cute as a button. everyone loves her. she's a real hottie.
i would be really upset if anyone tries to go to war against her.
THAT would be wrong.
no holly war !
<strong>
Yea that's relevant
oh BTW for the anti-thought left out there BUSH NEVER SAID HE AS ACTING THE THE NAME OF GOD. Little fact that that was not made clear at the top of this thread.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Sorry if I got under your skin with my little story.
<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />
<strong>Oh look . . .isn't it handy . . . you've already been provided with a nice little excuse . . . I mean argument, in favor</strong><hr></blockquote>
um...yes you are right, I have provided Bush with an excuse for attacking Iran
<img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[oyvey]" />
So, if the UN/world does take actions against Iran (diplomatic, military, whatever),as my post actually said, you would be against it? I mean, just because there are credible reasons, doesn't mean anything should be done right? Play yer fiddle boy.
<strong>
I have yet to hear one person on the Left to ask HUSSEIN to disarm to avoid war. </strong><hr></blockquote>
Holly shit have you ever heard of the fscking U.N.?
[ 03-12-2003: Message edited by: jimmac ]</p>
<strong>Man I can't wait until the next election! History will look on Bush as america's little mistake.</strong><hr></blockquote>Not if it is a "butterfly ballot"
- T.I.
i'm sorry for u.s. citizens... you're government is going insane. i hope your next president will be more open minded and at least a bit intelligent.
[ 03-12-2003: Message edited by: zero ]</p>
PS: Some of you guys really need to loosen up. Learn to accept some things as comedy. If the world leaders were as jumpy as some of you on this board we would all be screwed...
[ 03-12-2003: Message edited by: Mount_my_floppy ]</p>
<strong>Who is Holly?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Is there any other?