First Windows Phone 7 'Mango' handsets rumored to challenge iPhone 5 in Sept.

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Comments

  • Reply 41 of 48
    sierrajeffsierrajeff Posts: 366member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by lilgto64 View Post


    I though MS / Bill Gates wrote MS-DOS - the Operating System of the first Intel based PCs - that is not the same as BIOS - sure they had to have BIOS and it was the reverse engineering of the BIOS that allowed the PC clone market to erupt all over the technology landscape wreaking the havoc that has reigned through the land since.



    Not quite sure about in the beginning - but nowadays I think American Megatrends and Phoenix Software Associates have an awful lot of THAT market tied up.



    Bill Gates didn't write MS-DOS. He took it from Patterson's QDOS, which itself was derived from Gary Kildell's CP/M. Gates was nothing more than in the right place at the right time, with a barely-tweaked product.
  • Reply 42 of 48
    sierrajeffsierrajeff Posts: 366member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Shrike View Post


    I think the UI design of Windows Phone 7 is a dead end.



    Talking from a visceral level, WP7 is visually asymmetric (and specifically along the vertical axis), and we do not like asymmetry. There's just something inherently ugly about how the phone UI is laid out. The information design of the WP7 is information scarce. The home screen has something like 8 tiles, with many of them of mono-color with basically a number indicating the number of new things for the service associated with the tile.



    I agree, I think it's an example of something that makes great intuitive sense to those who design it -- but which fails for most people. When I watched the video a few weeks ago I remember finding the whole thing fairly cumbersome -- a big disconnect between the home screen and the content behind, coupled with the arbitrary (i.e., devoid of inherent meaning) appearance of the home page.
  • Reply 43 of 48
    shrikeshrike Posts: 494member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by timgriff84 View Post


    Everyone different when it comes to WP7s UI, but when you say the tiles are all the same colour that really depends on what apps you have installed as the tiles are apps or shortcuts to part of apps. Mine currently has 10 different colours (unless you count the ones that are pictures and then its millions).



    The tiles are basically mono-color. Ie, each tile is essentially one color with white text. Yes, applications can use their branding inset into each tile, but by default, most are mono-color, typically involving the numbers of unread mail, text, etc. It'll look nicer setup with application tiles, but the branding campaign doesn't really employ them much. Also didn't mention that the color choices used do not translate well on TV screens, LCDs, paper. Looks a little better in real life, but the color choices for the tiles are clashing to my eyes.



    The colors, the asymmetry, the poor use of negative space, the low density of information - that is, the information is not beautiful - does not leave a good impression.



    If I had the druthers on the WP7 team, I'd suggest 3 columns of tiles in a bilateral symmetric fashion. The flat 2D look is a big part of the metro design, but it can be done better. There's too much "separator" space currently. I think the tiles need to be spaced together more closely. More iconography should be used within each tile. The large font for the notification number is too large compared to the font size for the name of the tile. Equalize that.



    Get rid of the "more screen" icon (right/left pointing arrow in a circle). It occupies something like 15% to 20% of the screen, essentially a whole column a centimeter wide to tell the user that they can move the screen left or right. There are plenty of other ways that this can be done: iOS popup scroll bar, a number or icon on the title bar. When moving the screen, for both horizontal and vertical, move it screen by screen. Not half-screen stuff.



    I won't get into sizing the font so that the last latter is half chopped off.



    On top of this, I think MS should mandate the use of AMOLED screens on WP7 handsets. The UI needs deep blacks to shine. A poor LCD would make it look bad imo.



    Suffice it to say, I think it is a hard sell. I do think it looks a little bit better than Android, but obviously, it doesn't have the same OEM or operator push.
  • Reply 44 of 48
    timgriff84timgriff84 Posts: 912member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Shrike View Post


    The tiles are basically mono-color. Ie, each tile is essentially one color with white text. Yes, applications can use their branding inset into each tile, but by default, most are mono-color, typically involving the numbers of unread mail, text, etc. It'll look nicer setup with application tiles, but the branding campaign doesn't really employ them much. Also didn't mention that the color choices used do not translate well on TV screens, LCDs, paper. Looks a little better in real life, but the color choices for the tiles are clashing to my eyes.



    The colors, the asymmetry, the poor use of negative space, the low density of information - that is, the information is not beautiful - does not leave a good impression.



    If I had the druthers on the WP7 team, I'd suggest 3 columns of tiles in a bilateral symmetric fashion. The flat 2D look is a big part of the metro design, but it can be done better. There's too much "separator" space currently. I think the tiles need to be spaced together more closely. More iconography should be used within each tile. The large font for the notification number is too large compared to the font size for the name of the tile. Equalize that.



    Get rid of the "more screen" icon (right/left pointing arrow in a circle). It occupies something like 15% to 20% of the screen, essentially a whole column a centimeter wide to tell the user that they can move the screen left or right. There are plenty of other ways that this can be done: iOS popup scroll bar, a number or icon on the title bar. When moving the screen, for both horizontal and vertical, move it screen by screen. Not half-screen stuff.



    I won't get into sizing the font so that the last latter is half chopped off.



    On top of this, I think MS should mandate the use of AMOLED screens on WP7 handsets. The UI needs deep blacks to shine. A poor LCD would make it look bad imo.



    Suffice it to say, I think it is a hard sell. I do think it looks a little bit better than Android, but obviously, it doesn't have the same OEM or operator push.



    Ultimately I think it is down to what you like. On some of the points you raised though with the default tiles their are 5 with a solid colour (phone, messaging, IE, calendar, marketplace) and 5 without (people, xbox live, office, music + videos, pictures).



    The size of the icons wouldn't work if they were much smaller for a 3 column layout. Remember some of these show actual pictures, while others like the calendar are showing actual information like your next appointments. Having these in a smaller space would make it to cramped.



    Things like the amount of seperater space and the cm gap on the right of the home screen I also really like. Remember if your using an iPhone the screen sizes on WP7 devices are generally 0.5 - 1 inches bigger so there is actually more room. The biggest thing I'd say I like about WP7 is the fact that on the whole nothing seems crammed in. Having a dedicated back button saves space from the screen in apps and side swiping is a very natural thing to do on a phone, rather than having tabs which then take up even more space.
  • Reply 45 of 48
    hardballhardball Posts: 26member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Damn_Its_Hot View Post


    I can't wait to see monkey boy do the mango dance.



    Mango, Mango,Mango,Mango,Mango,Mango,Mango,Mango,Mango.,M ango, Mango,Mango,Mango,Mango,Mango,Mango,Mango,Mango,Ma ngo, Mango,Mango,Mango,Mango,Mango,Mango,Mango,Mango?



    Take it away Ballmer!



    Edit: after my previous post I guess I sound just a wee bit hypocritical. But hey I didn't say I was perfect.



    You mean something like this?





    Baller Dance, Sweet!
  • Reply 46 of 48
    nvidia2008nvidia2008 Posts: 9,262member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by lilgto64 View Post


    I though MS / Bill Gates wrote MS-DOS - the Operating System of the first Intel based PCs - that is not the same as BIOS - sure they had to have BIOS and it was the reverse engineering of the BIOS that allowed the PC clone market to erupt all over the technology landscape wreaking the havoc that has reigned through the land since.



    Not quite sure about in the beginning - but nowadays I think American Megatrends and Phoenix Software Associates have an awful lot of THAT market tied up.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by dolphyjazz View Post


    Not for nothing, but MS didn't write the BIOS on your PC's motherboard.



    Fair enough, but the BIOS is the same old tech that has been going around for about 20 years. There's been ample time for MS to influence BIOS makers. It's 2011. BIOS is a f*king absolute joke. The interface itself is like a C program from the 80's. The only thing they've added is overclocking options. Android and iOS probably have or are getting close to having more sophisticated firmware. Especially given that the firmware also has to liase with 2G/3G/4G basebands etc.
  • Reply 47 of 48
    philboogiephilboogie Posts: 7,494member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post


    At least Microsoft is kinda starting anew.



    Just got the message on my PC during BIOS startup:

    No Keyboard Detected. Press F1 To Resume



    Windows Phone could have said:

    No Signal Detected. Call 1800-WP7 To Activate



    I remember in NT4 if you copied your profile it would start copying and a popup read: "Copy Profile Error: The command completed successfully."



    Edit: was gonna link to a pic; found out you can actually download all their fonky error messages over at:

    http://www.gregorybraun.com/MSWinErr.html



  • Reply 48 of 48
    shrikeshrike Posts: 494member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by timgriff84 View Post


    Ultimately I think it is down to what you like.



    Yes, this is true on a personal level. But for Microsoft, they have to get it right for as large a population as possible. They don't have to get the UI exactly right as there are more ways then one to get handsets into people's hands. Google did it the way MS did, does it: they got OEMs and carriers to do an industry wide push for Android. Unfortunately, Microsoft's mobile phone strategy hit the reset button in 2009 and 2010 and they didn't have anything to counter Android with and they essentially didn't compete for a year or two. They are still trying to level the playing field with Google's "free" Android licensing model, but who knows if that'll convince any of the OEMs and carriers to switch players.



    If MS can't get OEMs and carriers on board, and they have to live on convincing consumers, it's going to be a tough road to hoe. I don't think the UI is convincing enough.



    Quote:

    On some of the points you raised though with the default tiles their are 5 with a solid colour (phone, messaging, IE, calendar, marketplace) and 5 without (people, xbox live, office, music + videos, pictures).



    Yeah, but only 6 tiles + 90% of another 2 tiles are visible at a time. It only takes 3 or 4 to make it a field of some clashing mono-color tiles. Maybe I'm opposed to the look of white text on green, blue, orange, etc colors. White-on-black or black-on-white. Using the colors reduces our capability to read the text.



    Quote:

    The size of the icons wouldn't work if they were much smaller for a 3 column layout. Remember some of these show actual pictures, while others like the calendar are showing actual information like your next appointments. Having these in a smaller space would make it to cramped.



    Sure it will work. Like it does today, an application can use 1 row of tiles to display their information. So instead of 2 tiles, it can use 3 (one row) while spanning those tiles the entire width of the screen. Or can just use 2 tiles. Vertically, instead of 3.9 tiles, you can see 6 tiles (or 5.8 whatever if the separator widths are the same). If a picture app wants to randomly display images, they can take up 2 rows of tiles or 2x2 tiles.



    Quote:

    Things like the amount of seperater space and the cm gap on the right of the home screen I also really like. Remember if your using an iPhone the screen sizes on WP7 devices are generally 0.5 - 1 inches bigger so there is actually more room. The biggest thing I'd say I like about WP7 is the fact that on the whole nothing seems crammed in.



    We'll have to disagree on this. Also, since the iPhone uses a 3:2 display while Android/WP7 typically use a 16:9 or 16:9.4 display, the iPhone has a wider screen in portrait orientation than the diagonal size would suggest.
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