New Mac Pro

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  • Reply 281 of 331
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hmm View Post


    Well that's an engineering and manufacturing problem. If they're making something with that kind of rock solid stability, it will be expensive as hell, limiting who will be willing to buy it, driving the price up further. It may look like a simple feat but to support the weight of a tablet display with someone pressing on it without any play, takes a well engineered design due to the need for some freedom in positioning. I'm sure there are other ways to go about solving the issue of ergonomics there.



    Yes, that is the issue in a nutshell. One idea did occur to me, and that was that it might be more effective if it were attached to a chair rather than a desk- a sort of modified armrest. in other words, with the user sitting back in the chair rather than leaning forward, not so much weight would be placed on the support. I've noticed that we tend to hold tablets close to our bodies, so why not follow that natural inclination? Just a thought.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hmm View Post


    With a device like the ipad I imagine we'll see an increase in wireless options there both for display and networking. The tablet market could go in any number of directions currently. It's just a matter of time. I could definitely see them greatly displacing laptop sales in the near future. They're not quite there today. Soon they probably will be.



    Yes, I think soon they will be. What I would also like to see is some camera manufacturers integrating high-speed wireless transfer: combine that with a speed increase, and I'll make the transition.



    You know, I wonder if something similar wouldn't apply to video and laptops?
  • Reply 282 of 331
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    Micron at: http://www.micron.com/products/hybrid_memory_cube.html has some interesting tech coming. It would be nice to see this tech in a Mac Pro. It looks like something that could get play in an AIR too. Mainly due to low power and shrunken physical size.



    It might be a bit early to expect such tech in a Mac Pro but the space and power advantages will allow workstations in ever smaller boxes. This 3d technology will enable things that have only been dreamt about up until now. 😃
  • Reply 283 of 331
    hmmhmm Posts: 3,405member
    It seems the new launch date for sandy bridge xeons is Q1 2012 with 6 core processors shipping even later. This is getting ridiculous especially seeing as the lower models shipped months ago. I'm wondering what this means for the release schedule of Ivy Bridge and on for those models.
  • Reply 284 of 331
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hmm View Post


    It seems the new launch date for sandy bridge xeons is Q1 2012 with 6 core processors shipping even later. This is getting ridiculous especially seeing as the lower models shipped months ago. I'm wondering what this means for the release schedule of Ivy Bridge and on for those models.



    Ugh, not the news I want to hear! But then, how certain are we that sandy bridge et al are the next step for the Mac Pro?
  • Reply 285 of 331
    hmmhmm Posts: 3,405member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Joe Blue View Post


    Ugh, not the news I want to hear! But then, how certain are we that sandy bridge et al are the next step for the Mac Pro?



    Well what's weird is that ivy bridge chipsets are supposed to start appearing by Q2 2012. With Apple and the mac pro who knows? The thing is if it was still a big sales item for them, you might see mid cycle spec bumps to make use of pricing shifts in available processors, gpu bumps, etc. It's quite a niche item though. Toward the lower end it's practically the same machine we had in 2009. What I hope we don't see is a refresh that leaves out a lot of newer features. seeing as we have an abysmally long refresh cycle. I'm guessing the other oems are annoyed with intel at the moment as well.
  • Reply 286 of 331
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hmm View Post


    The thing is if it was still a big sales item for them, you might see mid cycle spec bumps to make use of pricing shifts in available processors, gpu bumps, etc. It's quite a niche item though. Toward the lower end it's practically the same machine we had in 2009. What I hope we don't see is a refresh that leaves out a lot of newer features. seeing as we have an abysmally long refresh cycle.



    Yes, this is what I was thinking as well- and the 2010 models already seem to be a refresh of the 2009 models. A few years ago (okay, maybe a decade ago- but I'm old, so that doesn't seem very long), we would have expected such a bump, but you're right: if the next Pros merely update the existing machine, it will be a great disappointment.
  • Reply 287 of 331
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Joe Blue View Post


    Ugh, not the news I want to hear! But then, how certain are we that sandy bridge et al are the next step for the Mac Pro?



    It really comes down to Apples use of and the desire for work station class Xeons. If they continue to use such hardware then they are at the mercy of Intel. That is there is no way to build a New Mac Pro without the Xeon hardware to do it.



    I'm not so sure how reliable the rumors are of a delay to these Xeons. If the rumors are true they must be more of a delta than in the past. In other words maybe a Sandy Bridge ++. Or we could be completely off and the issue could be in the support chips. Whatever, in the end the delay has to be bothersome for Apple.



    Actually I'm hoping this causes Apple to start to feel a great deal of frustration. If so maybe they will grasp why so many of us want an XMac. That is a mainstream machine built out of run of the mill hardware.
  • Reply 288 of 331
    Well, it looks like Ivy Bridge has started shipping:



    http://www.electronista.com/articles...hips.en.masse/



    So, do we get bumped Sandy Bridge Mac Pros this fall, or will Apple wait until they can deliver an Ivy Bridge machine?
  • Reply 289 of 331
    hmmhmm Posts: 3,405member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Joe Blue View Post


    Well, it looks like Ivy Bridge has started shipping:



    http://www.electronista.com/articles...hips.en.masse/



    So, do we get bumped Sandy Bridge Mac Pros this fall, or will Apple wait until they can deliver an Ivy Bridge machine?



    Those Ivy Bridge chips probably do not include any appropriate to a mac pro like machine. There's a high likelihood I'll be looking into an ivy bridge imac even though I hate all in one configurations. Even processor aside the mini is an awkward option for me due to ram constraints. Having to use 8GB sticks kills its cost effectiveness. Maybe that'll change if they keep dropping in price but then I'd be tempted to go with 32 . I know it sounds funny but quite a lot of what I use will make use of massive amounts of ram. The impact of SSD drives in testing is often really skewed due to lack of ram. Once applications are loaded a system with 32GB of ram will see far less of a gain from an SSD than one with 2-8 because it cuts down on pagefile usage.
  • Reply 290 of 331
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    Safari crashed on my iPad. 😱😱😱😡😡😡👿👿👿



    So you get the short version. I wouldn't commit to an iMac before seeing what Apple does to the Mac line up. The product line is ripe for an update.



    As to the Mini imagine the Mini stuffed with cube memory. That is the 3D tech Intel is working on. If they (Intel & Apple) can move such tech to the desktop relatively soon we would have the potential for a very high memory capacity.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hmm View Post


    Those Ivy Bridge chips probably do not include any appropriate to a mac pro like machine. There's a high likelihood I'll be looking into an ivy bridge imac even though I hate all in one configurations. Even processor aside the mini is an awkward option for me due to ram constraints. Having to use 8GB sticks kills its cost effectiveness. Maybe that'll change if they keep dropping in price but then I'd be tempted to go with 32 . I know it sounds funny but quite a lot of what I use will make use of massive amounts of ram. The impact of SSD drives in testing is often really skewed due to lack of ram. Once applications are loaded a system with 32GB of ram will see far less of a gain from an SSD than one with 2-8 because it cuts down on pagefile usage.



  • Reply 291 of 331
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    If they are selling chips it would seem that product would not be far behind. Yet in the article they say no shipping product until spring. Doesn't make any sense to me.



    Last I heard Ivy Bridge will max out at 77 watts. That doesn't seem to be very workstation class. On the other hand I'm not sure what sort of performance they are talking about at 77 watts. Stepping back a bit one of those chips in the 55 to 65 watt range would make for one excellent XMac.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Joe Blue View Post


    Well, it looks like Ivy Bridge has started shipping:



    http://www.electronista.com/articles...hips.en.masse/



    So, do we get bumped Sandy Bridge Mac Pros this fall, or will Apple wait until they can deliver an Ivy Bridge machine?



    I don't know. The whole Ivy Bridge things is an enigma. This article actually somes up some of that conflict by saying the stuff is being shipped by Intel yet we have a six month wait (spring). Marketing speak at its best. Many what they mean is that Engineering samples are shipping. Considering all the other bits of info floating about I still think a bump will come in November.
  • Reply 292 of 331
    hmmhmm Posts: 3,405member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post


    If they are selling chips it would seem that product would not be far behind. Yet in the article they say no shipping product until spring. Doesn't make any sense to me.



    Last I heard Ivy Bridge will max out at 77 watts. That doesn't seem to be very workstation class. On the other hand I'm not sure what sort of performance they are talking about at 77 watts. Stepping back a bit one of those chips in the 55 to 65 watt range would make for one excellent XMac.




    These are for desktop class chips. Xeons aren't included here. Given the extremely late Sandy Bridge E I imagine we'll see a really weak Ivy Bridge release there. What the article means is that the i3s would go from 35W and 65W to 35W and 55W. The i5s and i7s would then go from 65W and 95W to 65W and 77W. This is assuming the article in that link is supplying accurate information. I'm just comparing to what is currently available in the Sandy Bridge generation.



    Sandy Bridge-E is using a 130W tdp on both 4 and 6 core models. It remains to be seen what they decide to do. Your options in quad chips would be 65W and 77W. This year they were 65W and 95W. Unless the rest of the system goes on a power diet too I don't think this will change much at all.



    I checked a few sites. On the mobile end different sites are reporting 35W or 45W for the majority of the quad core chips.
  • Reply 293 of 331
    mactacmactac Posts: 315member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post


    As to the Mini imagine the Mini stuffed with cube memory.



    Never happen. Cube is a four letter word at Apple.
  • Reply 294 of 331
    Some more information to add to the mix:



    http://www.electronista.com/articles...k.one.quarter/



    Now, these are specifically described as "mid-range" chips, but according to Intel's "roadmap," the "extreme" and "premium" end of the performance spectrum will use Sandy Bridge E (replacing the i7), while Ivy Bridge is slated to serve as both the "mainstream" (replacing the i5) and lower-end of "premium" performance. So where does that put us?



    No mention of whether these will use Ivy Bridge's 22nm process, so who knows what it means for the Mini.
  • Reply 295 of 331
    hmmhmm Posts: 3,405member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Joe Blue View Post


    Some more information to add to the mix:





    Now, these are specifically described as "mid-range" chips, but according to Intel's "roadmap," the "extreme" and "premium" end of the performance spectrum will use Sandy Bridge E (replacing the i7), while Ivy Bridge is slated to serve as both the "mainstream" (replacing the i5) and lower-end of "premium" performance. So where does that put us?



    It doesn't change anything I've already stated at all. The Ivy Bridge ones you noted don't use the same socket. These chips were supposed to be out a long time ago. Ivy Bridge probably won't be a massive performance boost. If it is I still don't care because I doubt they're going to release many Ivy Bridge chips in this set right on top of the Sandy Bridge E's. I've read rumors as late as March or so on Sandy Bridge E at this point. I guess it'll happen when it happens. It doesn't change what I've already stated, which is that the mac pro is in need of an update and the current pricing of a hexacore machine is ridiculous.
  • Reply 296 of 331
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MacTac View Post


    Never happen. Cube is a four letter word at Apple.



    I didn't see that coming. However it is very funny.



    So how does Apple avoid the four letter word? Simple call it the Mini 3D.
  • Reply 297 of 331
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    Ivy Bridge seems to be focused on the die shrink and a improvement to the Video hardware. Even indications about real GPU improvements is highly mixed. In the end it looks like much lower power will be Ivy Bridges big selling point. Possibly this could mean more cores at a given power point. Even here it looks like Intel might go for clock rate instead.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hmm View Post


    It doesn't change anything I've already stated at all. The Ivy Bridge ones you noted don't use the same socket. These chips were supposed to be out a long time ago. Ivy Bridge probably won't be a massive performance boost. If it is I still don't care because I doubt they're going to release many Ivy Bridge chips in this set right on top of the Sandy Bridge E's. I've read rumors as late as March or so on Sandy Bridge E at this point.



    Intel never did learn to play the market like Apple does.

    Quote:

    I guess it'll happen when it happens. It doesn't change what I've already stated, which is that the mac pro is in need of an update and the current pricing of a hexacore machine is ridiculous.



    This is the single biggest issue with Apple and it's Mac Pro. It is way to expensive if you simply want a powerful desktop. I have some hope that Ivy Bridge might make for a Mini that is appealing for a primary machine but I've been disappointed too many times there. The only solution is to wait it out and see if the line up changes significantly.
  • Reply 298 of 331
    hmmhmm Posts: 3,405member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post


    Ivy Bridge seems to be focused on the die shrink and a improvement to the Video hardware. Even indications about real GPU improvements is highly mixed. In the end it looks like much lower power will be Ivy Bridges big selling point. Possibly this could mean more cores at a given power point. Even here it looks like Intel might go for clock rate instead.





    Intel never did learn to play the market like Apple does.





    This is the single biggest issue with Apple and it's Mac Pro. It is way to expensive if you simply want a powerful desktop. I have some hope that Ivy Bridge might make for a Mini that is appealing for a primary machine but I've been disappointed too many times there. The only solution is to wait it out and see if the line up changes significantly.



    Ehhh according to the latest rumors/articles don't get your hopes up. From what I've read it may shave off 10W. While that's something, I don't think we're going to see anything too insane here. Even getting close details on what we'll see from it are still quite spotty. You know my opinion on the current form of the mac pro. It started off as a high cost of entry but you were buying a top notch machine. Now the price has drifted upward while what you get for it has trended the other direction. The machine has received very few design or spec upgrades in its time. Back to Ivy Bridge, I haven't found anything related to an Ivy Bridge version of Sandy Bridge - E.
  • Reply 299 of 331
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hmm View Post


    Ehhh according to the latest rumors/articles don't get your hopes up. From what I've read it may shave off 10W. While that's something, I don't think we're going to see anything too insane here.



    In an AIR ten watts of power savings will be huge. Especially if they can deliver enhanced performance. Even if that enhanced performance only comes to the GPU it is still exactly what the AIR needs.



    On the other machines likely to get this processor I would tend to agree there will be little power savings as that is likely to go to more performance. I know that if I go the MBP route I'd want performance to be much stronger than it currently is. If I go the Mini route the machine would only be acceptable if they paid attention to performance.

    Quote:

    Even getting close details on what we'll see from it are still quite spotty. You know my opinion on the current form of the mac pro. It started off as a high cost of entry but you were buying a top notch machine. Now the price has drifted upward while what you get for it has trended the other direction. The machine has received very few design or spec upgrades in its time. Back to Ivy Bridge, I haven't found anything related to an Ivy Bridge version of Sandy Bridge - E.



    I'm beginning to wonder if the Ivy Bridge process is causing Intel more grief than expected. The rest of the industry is having issues with sub 30 nm technology so maybe Intel is too. As to Sandy Bridge - E who knows what is up there. You wouldn't think it would be that difficult.
  • Reply 300 of 331
    hmmhmm Posts: 3,405member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post


    In an AIR ten watts of power savings will be huge. Especially if they can deliver enhanced performance. Even if that enhanced performance only comes to the GPU it is still exactly what the AIR needs.




    You know I can't find the mobile specs today for some reason, but in everything listed it was the max tdp that came down. What I mean is that the lower wattage dual and quad core chips didn't really see a reduction. Nothing I've found suggests much improvement in power efficiency on the macbook air end or the potential for a quad processor to make it into one. Overall this may change as we see more information start to surface.
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