Google CEO: 'Anticompetitive' Apple, Microsoft forced Motorola deal

1246789

Comments

  • Reply 61 of 171
    cloudgazercloudgazer Posts: 2,161member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post


    I personally expect an eventual announcement that all patent litigation between Apple and Moto has been settled in a mutual agreement.



    I suspect that both Google and Apple know too many details about where the bodies are buried.



    I dunno, I think this could all get a bit Shakespearian. Before this merger was announced we were looking at a situation where Apple stood to win big if it could get the first injunction on Moto. If it managed it then Moto would be forced to the table on essentially Apple's terms, but now Moto would likely just accept the loss of market-share rather than accept a poor cross-licensing deal.



    Ironically this merger increases the chance of an injunction actually affecting supply.
  • Reply 62 of 171
    So when do the counter lawsuits from Google start?
  • Reply 63 of 171
    What's to prevent Microsoft from making a higher bid for MotoMobil?
  • Reply 64 of 171
    cloudgazercloudgazer Posts: 2,161member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AppleGreen View Post


    What's to prevent Microsoft from making a higher bid for MotoMobil?



    The fact that they are partnered with Nokia mostly. They can't buy both, so if they bought Moto they'd lock themselves out of Nokia.
  • Reply 65 of 171
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by cloudgazer View Post


    No, trading isn't suspended, why would it be? Instead the price will tend to rise to around the value of the bid. The fact that it's up to nearly the bid amount indicates an expectation that the bid will succeed and pass regulatory approval. If it went above the bid amount that would indicate investors expected a counter bid from another player. If it was significantly below the bid then it would indicate investors expected the bid to fail.



    A suspension may sometimes precede a big announcement like this to avoid insider trading, but there's no need for it to follow.









    The rumours are that the IBM patents were bought for use against Oracle.







    I'm sure Apple is taking this seriously. Before this Moto was a very weak player with a relatively strong IP portfolio. Now that IP is going to be owned by Google, and will at least partially be defending stronger players such as HTC and Samsung (though presumably it won't defend Sense or T-Wiz). From a business perspective Steve Jobs may be having a laugh this morning, but I'm sure from a legal perspective he's at least a little concerned.



    Collaborations between Motorola and Apple have a long history in mobile space, as far back as December 2004 when they developed ROKR together, so I presume that Apple actually have licenced bunch of relevant Motolola´s patents around that time.
  • Reply 66 of 171
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mbarriault View Post


    So they buy up a competitor (anticompetitive), which gives them now first-class priority amongst Android licensees (anticompetitive), and they do it just for the patents (anticompetitive), and they say Apple and Microsoft are being anticompetitive?



    A basic prerequisite for being evil is the ability to twist the truth to suit your purposes. Google's new slogan: Be Evil?.
  • Reply 67 of 171
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by cloudgazer View Post


    The fact that they are partnered with Nokia mostly. They can't buy both, so if they bought Moto they'd lock themselves out of Nokia.



    Disagree. They have not bought Nokia. It is only a partnership. They could buy MotoMobil, keep the patents, and switch it over to Windows Mobile. And, thwart Google in the process.



    DOJ may have a problem with all of this, however.
  • Reply 68 of 171
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,284member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by cloudgazer View Post


    . . . The rumours are that the IBM patents were bought for use against Oracle.



    Yes, in fact if you look over the patents that Google rec'd from IBM, it looks even clearer that Google is looking for a swap shop deal with Oracle. And there's been a few other under-the-radar patent acquisitions by Google recently that would appear to be more useful to Oracle than the Goog.



    http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Application...atents-431023/
  • Reply 69 of 171
    cloudgazercloudgazer Posts: 2,161member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AppleGreen View Post


    Disagree. They have not bought Nokia. It is only a partnership. They could buy MotoMobil, keep the patents, and switch it over to Windows Mobile. And, thwart Google in the process.



    DOJ may have a problem with all of this, however.



    They haven't bought Nokia but it's fairly clearly where they are trending. Buying Moto would make it impossible, after stripping Moto's patents and forcing it to be WP7 they would be unable to sell the business because it would be literally worthless.
  • Reply 70 of 171
    cloudgazercloudgazer Posts: 2,161member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by dragan0405 View Post


    Collaborations between Motorola and Apple have a long history in mobile space, as far back as December 2004 when they developed ROKR together, so I presume that Apple actually have licenced bunch of relevant Motolola´s patents around that time.



    That would be an entirely unwarranted assumption, since the ROKR was built by Moto using IP from Apple. Far more likely Apple simply licensed their Fairplay system for use by Moto in that one handset and licensed the use of the iTunes trademark again for that limited use.



    Given the significant litigation between the two there is no evidence that either has wide ranging IP rights licensed from the other.
  • Reply 71 of 171
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post


    The cable box business is reported to be a piece of Motorola Mobility, so I'd guess it's included.



    Your point really is interesting! Why? Microsoft software runs AT&T's U-verse system which of course sucks in my opinion. AT&T uses Motorola hardware for U-verse.



    Many ramifications of the purchase.
  • Reply 72 of 171
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by cloudgazer View Post


    That would be an entirely unwarranted assumption, since the ROKR was built by Moto using IP from Apple. Far more likely Apple simply licensed their Fairplay system for use by Moto in that one handset and licensed the use of the iTunes trademark again for that limited use.



    Given the significant litigation between the two there is no evidence that either has wide ranging IP rights licensed from the other.



    Well. Apple didn´t develop iPhone out of nothing. I am pretty sure that they had some deals and some protection from other vendors, at least when it came to core tehnology. Since all their relationship with Motorola over decades, one can only presume that the Motorola was source of patents for basic mobile tehnologies.

    http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/20...le-patents.ars
  • Reply 73 of 171
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by cloudgazer View Post


    They haven't bought Nokia but it's fairly clearly where they are trending. Buying Moto would make it impossible, after stripping Moto's patents and forcing it to be WP7 they would be unable to sell the business because it would be literally worthless.



    You are missing some large strategic issues.



    1) It is in Microsoft's interest to thwart Google's Android ambitions. So far, it has used it's patent portfolio to extract $5/unit licensing fee from HTC (and maybe others). Letting Google get hold of Moto's patents weakens Microsoft's position.



    2) Microsoft has paid Nokia good money to make it go WP7. It does not need to acquire Nokia. And, it is definitely NOT "fairly clearly where they are trending." The payment most likely came with the condition that Nokia has to remain WP7.



    3) By making a bid for Moto, Microsoft kills 2 birds with one stone - get Moto's patents and get another vendor of WP7 phones.
  • Reply 74 of 171
    xsuxsu Posts: 401member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post


    You honestly think this is a move to get into hardware? If it isn't, and is only meant to strengthen the Android patent portfolio, how would those partners feel betrayed? They are going to be more comfortable with google owning those patents than Apple or MS or even another Android vendor.



    Unless Google is prepared to write down the majority of that 12 billion purchase price soon after the deal closes by closing the hardware business, or sell off the asset, the other partners will feel betrayed and at least threatened.
  • Reply 75 of 171
    cloudgazercloudgazer Posts: 2,161member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by dragan0405 View Post


    Well. Apple didn´t develop iPhone out of nothing. I am pretty sure that they had some deals and some protection from other vendors, at least when it came to core tehnology. Since all their relationship with Motorola over decades, one can only presume that the Motorola was source of patents for basic mobile tehnologies.

    http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/20...le-patents.ars



    Apple didn't need to develop the iPhone out of nothing. GSM chipsets were available from players such as Qualcomm and Broadcomm who were fully licensed. If Apple had licenses from Moto then Moto wouldn't be suing Apple for failing to license their GSM patents, UMTS patents, antenna patents and so forth.



    I'm sorry but you are 'pretty sure' of something for which we have factual evidence to the contrary.
  • Reply 76 of 171
    jragostajragosta Posts: 10,473member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post


    RIM is dead. In light of Samsung being sued, Nokia latching on to Microsoft's teat and now Google swooping in to buy Moto, it's pretty much game over for RIM.



    I was at my local craptastic telco, a few years ago when the latest BlackBerries launched it was exclusive to one of the three major telcos and there was much fanfare. Now BlackBerries are sold by every telco and they're mostly a third or quarter of what iPhone still sells for.



    Game over RIM.



    Not necessarily. If Google is smart, they will sell the Motorola hardware business and keep the IP. Blackberry OS is struggling, so RIM might have a desire to branch out. RIM still has a sizable cash reserve. Google knows that owning the hardware business puts them in a bad light with other licensees. Google gains a massive PR advantage if RIM starts licensing Android. None of the other Android licensees have the business presence that RIM has.



    Selling Moto's hardware business to RIM might be a huge win for everyone. However, see below.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Conscript View Post


    I thought google said they will keep Android open still despite now owning Motorola Mobile.



    I can see a scenario where they have Android for all to please other handset makers, while they tightly integrate/optimize their hardware to produce an Apple-like synergy between Motorolas handsets and Android.



    This is, IMHO, a more likely scenario. Google seems to think that they're above the law and above everyone else out there and the rest of the world (including their licensees) should simply take whatever Google dishes out. I could easily see them going this route - even though the above idea makes more sense in the long run.
  • Reply 77 of 171
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hill60 View Post


    So I take it Google will now withdraw the suits Motorola attacked Apple with.



    F**king hypocrites.



    NAH! Sounds more like Google is buying Motorola in a mutually beneficial deal alright, but one that also protects Google from Motorola's patent portfolio. "What a tangled web we weave?"
  • Reply 78 of 171
    Pot... meet kettle...
  • Reply 79 of 171
    cloudgazercloudgazer Posts: 2,161member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


    Not necessarily. If Google is smart, they will sell the Motorola hardware business and keep the IP. Blackberry OS is struggling, so RIM might have a desire to branch out. RIM still has a sizable cash reserve. Google knows that owning the hardware business puts them in a bad light with other licensees. Google gains a massive PR advantage if RIM starts licensing Android. None of the other Android licensees have the business presence that RIM has.



    Selling Moto's hardware business to RIM might be a huge win for everyone. However, see below.



    RIM can't afford Moto, they only have a few billion in cash and they really need to hang onto that as a hedge against the coming dark times for their platform. They would have to make an all stock purchase of Moto. Say that they valued Moto without IP at 6BN, that would leave Google with around 30% of the combined entity, so essentially wouldn't help matters.



    Besides what does Moto offer RIM? If RIM wanted to license android they already could. Conceivably a player like Dell might be interested since they've demonstrated an interest in handsets and an inability to design them - but not RIM.
  • Reply 80 of 171
    pokepoke Posts: 506member
    I think this move might really be about Oracle. Here's my theory:



    1. Google knows it wilfully infringed Oracle's IP, that there's evidence it wilfully infringed Oracle's IP and that it can't win the case. They can't reach a licensing agreement with Oracle either.



    2. Google knows it has to move to a non-infringing, incompatible platform. Essentially they have to dump Android as it currently exists and do a complete rewrite.



    3. Google has been to its Android partners and explained the situation. They're not impressed.



    4. Google knows its partners are reluctant to follow it onto the new, non-infringing platform and it fears there won't be anyone on the new platform. But Motorola makes them an offer: "Buy us for $12 billion and we'll stick with you forever!"



    5. Google has to do all this before Oracle gets an injunction against all infringing Android phones. So it's moving now.
Sign In or Register to comment.