Wrong. Stop watching FauxNoise. China only owns 10% of our debt. The rest is own by the US taxpayers in the form of T-Bills, etc... Hedge funds and the like purchase them.
Although I agree with you saying this other person is wrong, you made a mistake too. Besides China there are many other countries that own US debt. Japan is number two.
... You were talking about Genius Bar swaps and if, as noted, it says that they might use refurbs then it is your fault for not reading the policy.
but it as NADA to do with what happens during actual sales. So find some proof that they are selling refurbs had over fist as new items or can it please.
Look, I already said that the issue I'm talking about is slightly different from the issue being discussed in the article but it's closely related and relevant to the thread. A lot more relevant than most of the asides you generally see on threads at Apple Inisder. If you don't like what I'm saying then ignore me, but don't try to shut me down as if I'm going off on a tangent. It's not like I'm talking about something completely different here.
I'm *not* talking about "genius bar swaps" I'm talking about buying a brand new phone and being told that I have to accept a used one instead for the same price. If I had accepted the used one (I went through a two month complaint process before they gave in and replaced it with a new model), I would most certainly have been "buying a refurbished phone as if it was a new phone."
If I pay full price for a product and get a refurbished product instead, it's exactly the same as "buying refurbished as new." If Apple is the one selling that product to me, then they absolutely *are* "selling refurbished as new." There's no way around the facts here.
On the other hand, who cares. Maybe the Chinese Government should actually try to stop any of the ridiculous piracy of American products.
What's that got to do with the guy who bought the phone. He isn't the Chinese government. It'd be like me blaming you for all of the things the US has done in the past and expecting you to fix it.
When it happened to me. I had a brand new iPhone. You are right about my first sentence though. It kind of equates two situations which are in fact different. I didn't see that when I wrote it but I do now. Sorry about that.
Are you sure you didn't get a new phone in refurb packaging? Your phone may have been marked as DOA, which could be treated differently than a warranty replacement. After all, you could just return the phone, get 100% of your money back, and buy a new one immediately after that.
When it happened to me. I had a brand new iPhone. I paid the full 800 bucks for it, and when I took it out of the box it had two separate manufacturers defects. I reported it to Apple within a half hour of the delivery guy showing up at my door. I hadn't even synced it because I was prepared to keep using my old one and put this one back in the box to go back which is what I thought they would suggest.
It *isn't okay to replace a brand new product with a used one no matter how you swing it, and in many countries it is actually illegal (although I don't know how the US handles stuff like this).
Apple is also "selling refurbished as new" in that the same models I'm talking about are handed out at Apple stores for any customer that has a problem with their phone. Sure, in some cases it's someone that has used their phone for a month or something and it's not "new," and sure, there are also going to be a lot of shysters trying to get a new phone for some reason that isn't exactly above board, but there are also lots of regular people who just bought a brand new phone that had something wrong with it.
When you buy a product it's a contract. If you pay for a new phone, and get a defective phone, replacing it with a used one is not okay and is a violation of that contract. At the very least, they should refund the difference in price between new and refurbished. It's definitely an underhanded practice. The customer paid for new, but gets used. How is that not a problem?
Your situation is unusual, but is not the same thing as Apple selling refurb phones as new. Their policy is clear - if you buy a phone and then unpack it, it is now used. When a used phone is defective, they can replace it with a new or refurb phone at their choice. Like it or not, your phone was 'used' as soon as you broke the seal on the packaging. They didn't violate the policy. Furthermore, that situation is very rare. The number of DOAs is very small and many of those are discovered in the store.
Now, since yours was actually DOA, you could have asked for a manager and insisted on a new phone. That would not be required by Apple's policy, but many managers would have done so.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody
You are right about my first sentence though. It kind of equates two situations which are in fact different. I didn't see that when I wrote it but I do now. Sorry about that.
Thank you for admitting that. Apple is not selling refurb phones as new.
When I read the part about the lady claiming Apple tried to "trick her" by offering to extend the warranty I had flashbacks to ever person from Asia I ever sold a computer. I swear every single one of them were just ridiculous, accusatory, and confrontational -- they'd do crap like try to haggle the price, or get all kinds of things thrown in for free that were absurd. Then when they actually paid for it they want to open it up, go through the packaging, and try to find something wrong with it. They'd sit there and say things like "it's not working right" because it took the computer longer than three seconds to boot up ... The entire time saying "you're cheating me!" They also didn't believe they could bring it back if there was a problem and we'd replace it if necessary.
I'm fairly convinced it's a cultural thing because where they come from everyone IS trying to cheat you. They come here and expect everything works the same way ... And cannot except it doesn't.
Of COURSE it's a cultural thing. If you had any ability to see western culture from an outsider's point of view, you'd notice all sorts of ridiculousness in our culture as well. For a comical lighthearted view, read "I'm A Stranger Here Myself" by Bill Bryson. It's a book about the wackiness of living in the U.S. after living in England for years. And those are both western cultures.
It's easy for us to notice the peculiarities of others. Keep in mind that we're equally as odd.
If I pay full price for a product and get a refurbished product instead, it's exactly the same as "buying refurbished as new." If Apple is the one selling that product to me, then they absolutely *are* "selling refurbished as new." There's no way around the facts here.
So then buy an Android phone if you hate Apple so much. Problem solved.
Are you sure you didn't get a new phone in refurb packaging? Your phone may have been marked as DOA, which could be treated differently than a warranty replacement. After all, you could just return the phone, get 100% of your money back, and buy a new one immediately after that.
And what do we do about the trillions of dollars that Wall Street ripped off from US taxpayers? A much bigger problem, much bigger criminals.
Some one needs to grow some, and go after the douchebags and throw them all in prison. And unfortunately (even though I wish it was) that person isn't Obama.
Are these being sold in Apple owned Apple retail stores, or just at authorized dealers? Apple doesn't have control over what 3rd party dealers do. It could also be a case of some corrupt employees, or it could simply be a glitch where refurbished inventory got mixed up with new inventory. In any case, I'm sure this is not sanctioned by Apple and will be swiftly addressed.
The receipt detail shows it's an official Apple store location. You can search and find this store in Apple's website.
Issue like this rarely gets resolved swiftly as they do in US. There have been plenty of cases where manufacturers refuse to replace/repair/recall products that are in recall in other countries. Especially when the consumers don't make it a huge story.
Do you know that ConnicoPhillips is having an oil spill in China for over a month now and still hasn't done much to plug it? They don't care and even said it's a marketing opportunity because it gets their name out.
If you've ever done business in China, you'd know that there are a zillion ways this could have been manipulated. It really is a wild-west economy there. For all we know, they consumers could have bought the phones from the fake Apple stores.
Of COURSE it's a cultural thing. If you had any ability to see western culture from an outsider's point of view, you'd notice all sorts of ridiculousness in our culture as well. For a comical lighthearted view, read "I'm A Stranger Here Myself" by Bill Bryson. It's a book about the wackiness of living in the U.S. after living in England for years. And those are both western cultures.
It's easy for us to notice the peculiarities of others. Keep in mind that we're equally as odd.
Yes, I am rather intimately familiar with this concept having lived in four foreign countries (in addition to the United States) for a collective total of over 12 years ... from which I picked up the ability to speak six foreign languages.
Wrong. Stop watching FauxNoise. China only owns 10% of our debt. The rest is own by the US taxpayers in the form of T-Bills, etc... Hedge funds and the like purchase them.
You forgot that the Japanese, the British, Hong Kong, Singapore, Taiwan and the oil rich Middle East are also big holders of US debt.
Comments
Wrong. Stop watching FauxNoise. China only owns 10% of our debt. The rest is own by the US taxpayers in the form of T-Bills, etc... Hedge funds and the like purchase them.
Although I agree with you saying this other person is wrong, you made a mistake too. Besides China there are many other countries that own US debt. Japan is number two.
... You were talking about Genius Bar swaps and if, as noted, it says that they might use refurbs then it is your fault for not reading the policy.
but it as NADA to do with what happens during actual sales. So find some proof that they are selling refurbs had over fist as new items or can it please.
Look, I already said that the issue I'm talking about is slightly different from the issue being discussed in the article but it's closely related and relevant to the thread. A lot more relevant than most of the asides you generally see on threads at Apple Inisder. If you don't like what I'm saying then ignore me, but don't try to shut me down as if I'm going off on a tangent. It's not like I'm talking about something completely different here.
I'm *not* talking about "genius bar swaps" I'm talking about buying a brand new phone and being told that I have to accept a used one instead for the same price. If I had accepted the used one (I went through a two month complaint process before they gave in and replaced it with a new model), I would most certainly have been "buying a refurbished phone as if it was a new phone."
If I pay full price for a product and get a refurbished product instead, it's exactly the same as "buying refurbished as new." If Apple is the one selling that product to me, then they absolutely *are* "selling refurbished as new." There's no way around the facts here.
On the other hand, who cares. Maybe the Chinese Government should actually try to stop any of the ridiculous piracy of American products.
What's that got to do with the guy who bought the phone. He isn't the Chinese government. It'd be like me blaming you for all of the things the US has done in the past and expecting you to fix it.
LOL they're probably just unopened returns and someone forgot to strip their activated warranty before reselling them. :P
This is the likely problem here. Refurbs have 1 year warranties too, so it likely wasn't a refurb.
Nah, this isn't reasonable at all.
When it happened to me. I had a brand new iPhone. You are right about my first sentence though. It kind of equates two situations which are in fact different. I didn't see that when I wrote it but I do now. Sorry about that.
Are you sure you didn't get a new phone in refurb packaging? Your phone may have been marked as DOA, which could be treated differently than a warranty replacement. After all, you could just return the phone, get 100% of your money back, and buy a new one immediately after that.
a simple deal, for every 10$ of counterfeit that we find in China (and forgive) they have to forgive us 1$ in dept.
We would have them trillion in dept (probably, lol)
at the same time, this whole thing sounds kinda fishy, kinda like that finger that someone planted at Wendy's once....
And what do we do about the trillions of dollars that Wall Street ripped off from US taxpayers? A much bigger problem, much bigger criminals.
Nah, this isn't reasonable at all.
When it happened to me. I had a brand new iPhone. I paid the full 800 bucks for it, and when I took it out of the box it had two separate manufacturers defects. I reported it to Apple within a half hour of the delivery guy showing up at my door. I hadn't even synced it because I was prepared to keep using my old one and put this one back in the box to go back which is what I thought they would suggest.
It *isn't okay to replace a brand new product with a used one no matter how you swing it, and in many countries it is actually illegal (although I don't know how the US handles stuff like this).
Apple is also "selling refurbished as new" in that the same models I'm talking about are handed out at Apple stores for any customer that has a problem with their phone. Sure, in some cases it's someone that has used their phone for a month or something and it's not "new," and sure, there are also going to be a lot of shysters trying to get a new phone for some reason that isn't exactly above board, but there are also lots of regular people who just bought a brand new phone that had something wrong with it.
When you buy a product it's a contract. If you pay for a new phone, and get a defective phone, replacing it with a used one is not okay and is a violation of that contract. At the very least, they should refund the difference in price between new and refurbished. It's definitely an underhanded practice. The customer paid for new, but gets used. How is that not a problem?
Your situation is unusual, but is not the same thing as Apple selling refurb phones as new. Their policy is clear - if you buy a phone and then unpack it, it is now used. When a used phone is defective, they can replace it with a new or refurb phone at their choice. Like it or not, your phone was 'used' as soon as you broke the seal on the packaging. They didn't violate the policy. Furthermore, that situation is very rare. The number of DOAs is very small and many of those are discovered in the store.
Now, since yours was actually DOA, you could have asked for a manager and insisted on a new phone. That would not be required by Apple's policy, but many managers would have done so.
You are right about my first sentence though. It kind of equates two situations which are in fact different. I didn't see that when I wrote it but I do now. Sorry about that.
Thank you for admitting that. Apple is not selling refurb phones as new.
When I read the part about the lady claiming Apple tried to "trick her" by offering to extend the warranty I had flashbacks to ever person from Asia I ever sold a computer. I swear every single one of them were just ridiculous, accusatory, and confrontational -- they'd do crap like try to haggle the price, or get all kinds of things thrown in for free that were absurd. Then when they actually paid for it they want to open it up, go through the packaging, and try to find something wrong with it. They'd sit there and say things like "it's not working right" because it took the computer longer than three seconds to boot up ... The entire time saying "you're cheating me!" They also didn't believe they could bring it back if there was a problem and we'd replace it if necessary.
I'm fairly convinced it's a cultural thing because where they come from everyone IS trying to cheat you. They come here and expect everything works the same way ... And cannot except it doesn't.
Of COURSE it's a cultural thing. If you had any ability to see western culture from an outsider's point of view, you'd notice all sorts of ridiculousness in our culture as well. For a comical lighthearted view, read "I'm A Stranger Here Myself" by Bill Bryson. It's a book about the wackiness of living in the U.S. after living in England for years. And those are both western cultures.
It's easy for us to notice the peculiarities of others. Keep in mind that we're equally as odd.
If I pay full price for a product and get a refurbished product instead, it's exactly the same as "buying refurbished as new." If Apple is the one selling that product to me, then they absolutely *are* "selling refurbished as new." There's no way around the facts here.
So then buy an Android phone if you hate Apple so much. Problem solved.
You're playing that all wrong. No need to default. The correct response is "What US Treasury securities? I'm afraid you've gotten some counterfeits."
Nice!
Are you sure you didn't get a new phone in refurb packaging? Your phone may have been marked as DOA, which could be treated differently than a warranty replacement. After all, you could just return the phone, get 100% of your money back, and buy a new one immediately after that.
Yup. His story smells like 3 week old fish.
And what do we do about the trillions of dollars that Wall Street ripped off from US taxpayers? A much bigger problem, much bigger criminals.
Some one needs to grow some, and go after the douchebags and throw them all in prison. And unfortunately (even though I wish it was) that person isn't Obama.
Are you sure that it is not a genetic defect?
I see you certainly have a genetic defect.
Are these being sold in Apple owned Apple retail stores, or just at authorized dealers? Apple doesn't have control over what 3rd party dealers do. It could also be a case of some corrupt employees, or it could simply be a glitch where refurbished inventory got mixed up with new inventory. In any case, I'm sure this is not sanctioned by Apple and will be swiftly addressed.
The receipt detail shows it's an official Apple store location. You can search and find this store in Apple's website.
Issue like this rarely gets resolved swiftly as they do in US. There have been plenty of cases where manufacturers refuse to replace/repair/recall products that are in recall in other countries. Especially when the consumers don't make it a huge story.
Do you know that ConnicoPhillips is having an oil spill in China for over a month now and still hasn't done much to plug it? They don't care and even said it's a marketing opportunity because it gets their name out.
If you've ever done business in China, you'd know that there are a zillion ways this could have been manipulated. It really is a wild-west economy there. For all we know, they consumers could have bought the phones from the fake Apple stores.
thats exactly my point...
Of COURSE it's a cultural thing. If you had any ability to see western culture from an outsider's point of view, you'd notice all sorts of ridiculousness in our culture as well. For a comical lighthearted view, read "I'm A Stranger Here Myself" by Bill Bryson. It's a book about the wackiness of living in the U.S. after living in England for years. And those are both western cultures.
It's easy for us to notice the peculiarities of others. Keep in mind that we're equally as odd.
Yes, I am rather intimately familiar with this concept having lived in four foreign countries (in addition to the United States) for a collective total of over 12 years ... from which I picked up the ability to speak six foreign languages.
Wrong. Stop watching FauxNoise. China only owns 10% of our debt. The rest is own by the US taxpayers in the form of T-Bills, etc... Hedge funds and the like purchase them.
You forgot that the Japanese, the British, Hong Kong, Singapore, Taiwan and the oil rich Middle East are also big holders of US debt.
Even refurbished Apple products still have a full one year warranty from the date of purchase.
There's something else going on here.
Maybe fake products are being registered under the real serial numbers.
didn't think of that, you may be onto something