HP to spin off PC business to focus on enterprise software

178101213

Comments

  • Reply 181 of 253
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by GQB View Post


    And they would keep WebOS without hardware to put it on... because?



    Because they will still have a huge hardware business. Or they could license it to other hardware manufacturers. Or do something else.
  • Reply 182 of 253
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,907member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post


    I am thinking out loud here.



    With recent events it appears that the iPad may not get any meaningful competition for another 6-12 months (or longer).



    Apple's CFO, at the last earnings call forecast lower gross margins for this quarter because of a product transition,



    It doesn't look like that will be an iPad 3 with a Retina Display and/or an A6 CPU.



    It doesn't appear that the iPhone 5 will be out in time to have any major downward effect on GPM.



    iPods, Macs, AppleTV?



    Nah!





    What if Apple does this:



    1) Bumps the RAM and SSD size on the iPad (especially the largest model)

    2) Adds Thunderbolt and USB/FW access

    3) replaces the various cell radio chips with a 3G/LTE world radio chip

    4) FFF -- Furnishes a Fine Finder-like App

    5) Robustifies iPad Pages, Numbers and Keynote bring them into line with iWork and Office

    6) keeps the prices level the same except a new high-end model.



    This would definite have a downward effect on GPM but would eliminate a lot of SKUs -- 2 WiFi only and WiFi + Cell in each Model.



    It would, likely, push the date for meaningful competition to 18 months.



    Nothing I've seen or read about comes close to iOS 5 on an iPad 2 (or even an iPad 1).



    That could be game, set and match!



    I don't think we'll see anything this year on the iPad. I doubt very much if we'll see a separate USB port with iOS going over the air with iCloud. That moment has passed. Thunderbolt? I would love to see that, but I doubt it. Maybe in another year, when more devices are out for less money, say 2013. But it's just a hope.



    When the new one comes out, next year, 3, 5 and 6 are likely.
  • Reply 183 of 253
    alfiejralfiejr Posts: 1,524member
    i dunno about buying Autonomy, but HP is smart to spin off its PC business and pull the plug on WebOS hardware. yesterday i thought the DeadPad price would drop to $299, now it looks more like $199 - or less - to unload them all. hey, they'll be collector's items!



    (and didja see Best Buy is now giving away Galaxy tabs if you buy a $1500 TV? folks, this is what is known as a market collapse. the non-iPad tablet market that is.)



    HP is admitting they can't keep up with Apple and make much profit in the high end PC business anymore, and the alternative is the profitless race to the bottom commodity PC market. so just like IBM did wisely and successfully, they are getting out. maybe Asus or some other China up-and-comer will buy their PC business like Lenovo did from IBM.



    HP says they still intend to develop and license WebOS, including providing support for more than just Qualcomm chips. and thanks to Google's panic shopping for Motorola their timing may be perfect, with every other OEM in the world except Nokia now looking very seriously for a good alternative to Android. so WebOS may yet live long and prosper.
  • Reply 184 of 253
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,907member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AppleLover2 View Post


    To call this crap misleading is being kind. I'll put it more plainly: It is just simply wrong. It has no support in fact. It is bullshit.



    As such, it is irresponsible journalism.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AppleLover2 View Post


    Because they will still have a huge hardware business. Or they could license it to other hardware manufacturers. Or do something else.



    No way. It's dead at HP. Whether they use it in printers or other devices where the UI is stripped out and most of the multitasking is discarded doesn't matter. That won't be WebOS.



    Remember Darwin? That's OS X without the UI. It's not OS X, and it's used as an embedded OS for some applications. That's what Web OS would become.



    You have to answer why other companies would want to license it for what it was intended; phones and tablets. This OS has proven itself to be a dud. What makes you think that another manufacturer could license this, and a year later come out with a product that anyone would care about, because it would take at least a year from when they sign the agreement.



    There would be no software, and that's a major problem now. It would be a bigger problem in the beginning of 2013 when a new product came out.



    Just saying that HP would license it out isn't enough for an argument. You have to give at least one good reason why that would work.
  • Reply 185 of 253
    jonamacjonamac Posts: 384member
    I'm shocked by this. I really thought HP was doing the right thing developing WebOS.
  • Reply 186 of 253
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    This is really very interesting because this new tablet segment is still so very new. The iPad hasn't been out for more than 18 months! 18 months!!!



    Yet, after just three months, we were seeing business software appearing. Tim Cook expressed his own surprise that the tablet was taking off so well in business because of how conservative business normally is. Jobs said that iPad sales were being driven by sales to business. I agree.



    When I was on line to buy my iPad2, all the people around me were buying it for their businesses! I was amazed by that. I'm more amazed that GE has written a sophisticated app for this and said that, nope, no current plans for anything else. I'm seeing that often.



    http://www.informationweek.com/news/...less/231300594



    The Eu has standardized on the iPad for their legislators, and so has the Canadian Parliment.



    Even the Pope is using it.





    Interesting that your link included this pic:









    With a stylus, no less... and the real problem was that it wouldn't fit in the pocket of a lab coat -- answer... bigger pocket!





    To your list add:



    Apple, Microsoft May Bid for 15 Million Turkish Tablets, AA Says



    The weird thing is that you and I both watched the WinTel hegemony establish itself over a decade.



    This is happening much faster -- call it tipping point, critical mass, or power curve, whatever.



    I am getting the feeling if you're not established in the tablet game, today (especially this day/week/month) -- you never will be. The field is already littered with the bodies of also-rans, never-rans, scratches... the race may already be over!



    And, there is no reason that Tim Cook and/or his manufacturing agents couldn't go tap-dancing across the globe introducing iPads and Manufacturing Jobs in many other countries (while removing their import tariffs).





    Edit: 18 months is amazing! It took me 15 minutes to realize the power of the Apple ][ ('course Woz's younger brother, Mark, taught me the ropes -- he could type Integer BASIC faster than I can think). The Mac -- I was impressed, but it took much longer for me to see its future -- had trouble with that damn mouse and that click and point [sic[ thingie.. The iPad... Like someone said, Steve had me at [large screen] scrolling
  • Reply 187 of 253
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    No way. It's dead at HP. Whether they use it in printers or other devices where the UI is stripped out and most of the multitasking is discarded doesn't matter. That won't be WebOS.



    Remember Darwin? That's OS X without the UI. It's not OS X, and it's used as an embedded OS for some applications. That's what Web OS would become.



    You have to answer why other companies would want to license it for what it was intended; phones and tablets. This OS has proven itself to be a dud. What makes you think that another manufacturer could license this, and a year later come out with a product that anyone would care about, because it would take at least a year from when they sign the agreement.



    There would be no software, and that's a major problem now. It would be a bigger problem in the beginning of 2013 when a new product came out.



    Just saying that HP would license it out isn't enough for an argument. You have to give at least one good reason why that would work.





    In the meeting, webOS GBU VP Stephen DeWitt made it clear that HP intends to continue to work on webOS and likely intends to license it. DeWitt was adamant, saying several times “We are not walking away from webOS.”



    http://thisismynext.com/2011/08/18/h...usive-details/







    And BTW, I never said " that HP would license it out". I was listing possibilities.
  • Reply 188 of 253
    quinneyquinney Posts: 2,526member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post




    And, there is no reason that Tim Cook and/or his manufacturing agents couldn't go tap-dancing across the globe introducing iPads and Manufacturing Jobs in many other countries (while removing their import tariffs).



    Are you suggesting that Apple would own the manufacturing capacity in those many other countries?



    That would represent a huge change. Even if they could get Foxconn or some other contract manufacturer to expand to other countries, it would be a slow and difficult process and Apple would not give up their desire to have a high quality standard. I think Turkey might have to settle for manufacturing accessories if they want iPads for their kiddies.
  • Reply 189 of 253
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,907member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post


    Interesting that your link included this pic:









    With a stylus, no less... and the real problem was that it wouldn't fit in the pocket of a lab coat -- answer... bigger pocket!





    To your list add:



    Apple, Microsoft May Bid for 15 Million Turkish Tablets, AA Says



    The weird thing is that you and I both watched the WinTel hegemony establish itself over a decade.



    This is happening much faster -- call it tipping point, critical mass, or power curve, whatever.



    I am getting the feeling if you're not established in the tablet game, today (especially this day/week/month) -- you never will be. The field is already littered with the bodies of also-rans, never-rans, scratches... the race may already be over!



    And, there is no reason that Tim Cook and/or his manufacturing agents couldn't go tap-dancing across the globe introducing iPads and Manufacturing Jobs in many other countries (while removing their import tariffs).





    Edit: 18 months is amazing! It took me 15 minutes to realize the power of the Apple ][ ('course Woz's younger brother, Mark, taught me the ropes -- he could type Integer BASIC faster than I can think). The Mac -- I was impressed, but it took much longer for me to see its future -- had trouble with that damn mouse and that click and point [sic[ thingie.. The iPad... Like someone said, Steve had me at [large screen] scrolling



    The 18 month thing is the most amazing. From something that few writers thought anyone would have a use for, much less a need for, it's already sold over 35 million units, assuming it sells as well this quarter as last. How long did it take to sell that many phones?
  • Reply 190 of 253
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,907member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AppleLover2 View Post


    In the meeting, webOS GBU VP Stephen DeWitt made it clear that HP intends to continue to work on webOS and likely intends to license it. DeWitt was adamant, saying several times ?We are not walking away from webOS.?



    http://thisismynext.com/2011/08/18/h...usive-details/







    And BTW, I never said " that HP would license it out". I was listing possibilities.



    It doesn't matter that they say they want to license it. Of course they would say that. What matters is whether anyone would want to license it. If you have a product, you want to sell it, but people also have to want to buy it. People didn't want to buy WebOS products.



    I know you were listing possibilities. I was just responding as to why it wouldn't work, and whether you could give a reason why it would, as you gave that as a possibility.
  • Reply 191 of 253
    tt92618tt92618 Posts: 444member
    Wow, now this is a real bummer.



    I apparently was THE guy in the whole country that bought one of these, and i've only had it about a week. I bought it during HP's recent 'sale'.



    I'd like to say that i'm pretty unhappy with HP at the moment, and I have to wonder about the business logic of this move. They didn't sell enormous volumes, but they sold enough of these things that there are a couple hundred thousand people out there who are not going to be very happy right now. If they are much like me, they are currently putting this device back into its box in preparation to send it back to HP, and they are likely making plans to never purchase another HP product as long as they live.



    I mean really... put these things on sale, announce the price cut is permanent because consumers showed pleasing amounts of interest, and then kill the whole product line 1 week later, and barely more than a month after introduction? Absolutely horrendous.



    HP has created some ill will with this that isn't going away overnight.



    Regarding the device itself, I just have to say that WebOS truly is very nice. It suffers at the hands of its software, and it is pretty clear that HP rushed it to market. But it is sad that HP is so short sighted in this. A second round of better hardware would have gone a long way toward erasing the negative commentary.



    I've got an Amazon RMA and this thing is headed back to Amazon ASAP.



    What a sad, short life for something so promising; the buffoons at HP ought to be slapped.
  • Reply 192 of 253
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by quinney View Post


    Are you suggesting that Apple would own the manufacturing capacity in those many other countries?



    That would represent a huge change. Even if they could get Foxconn or some other contract manufacturer to expand to other countries, it would be a slow and difficult process and Apple would not give up their desire to have a high quality standard. I think Turkey might have to settle for manufacturing accessories if they want iPads for their kiddies.



    No, Apple would not own the manufacturing. I was suggesting something like what Foxconn is setting up for Brazil -- I am sure with Apple's approval.



    It won't work in all countries or regions. But, if Apple/Foxconn can package the assembly process so that it can be done, profitably, anywhere, increases market penetration, creates jobs (and fanout of support jobs), reduces tariffs, reduces prices to consumers -- all of which increase sales.



    Maybe, Governor Moonbeam can convince Foxconn to set up some assembly in California -- oh, there's that NIMBY thing.
  • Reply 193 of 253
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    The 18 month thing is the most amazing. From something that few writers thought anyone would have a use for, much less a use for, it's already sold over 35 million units, assuming it sells as well this quarter as last. How long did it take to sell that many phones?



    Yeah, and a phone is a necessity, but an iPad is only a luxcessity.
  • Reply 194 of 253
    tt92618tt92618 Posts: 444member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    No way. It's dead at HP. Whether they use it in printers or other devices where the UI is stripped out and most of the multitasking is discarded doesn't matter. That won't be WebOS.



    Remember Darwin? That's OS X without the UI. It's not OS X, and it's used as an embedded OS for some applications. That's what Web OS would become.



    You have to answer why other companies would want to license it for what it was intended; phones and tablets. This OS has proven itself to be a dud. What makes you think that another manufacturer could license this, and a year later come out with a product that anyone would care about, because it would take at least a year from when they sign the agreement.



    There would be no software, and that's a major problem now. It would be a bigger problem in the beginning of 2013 when a new product came out.



    Just saying that HP would license it out isn't enough for an argument. You have to give at least one good reason why that would work.



    I agree - it is dead.



    I happen to be one of the unfortunate people who have one of these devices (and an iPad), and I just have one quibble with what you've said: the OS is really quite nice, and in some ways more enjoyable to use than iOS. It has some features, like Synergy, which are really awesome, and it had a delightful notification system well before Apple bundled something similar into the as yet unreleased iOS 5.



    WebOS, in my opinion, is a victim of corporate stupidity, not of its own failings. Bluntly, HP killed WebOS... by pairing it with a hardware offering that was terribly lack luster and by rushing it into the market before they had ironed out most of the bugs in version 3. They also didn't put as much effort into an ecosystem as they should have (although the HP App Catalog is much nicer than the Android store, and is almost as nice IMHO as the App Store) - I still con't quite understand who so many iOS competitors can't see how important this is. So, HP simply screwed up terrifically, and now they aren't willing to pair their mistake with an honest effort to correct - instead they are screwing over the consumers who bought these devices, their channel partners, etc. Brilliant business decision making - NOT.



    I'm not sure I remember a single product released and then cancelled quite so quickly. I'll say this: it also has cancelled any future purchases of HP products from myself. I've already RMA'd this thing for its return flight to Amazon.



    Very sad.
  • Reply 195 of 253
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,907member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tt92618 View Post


    Wow, now this is a real bummer.



    I apparently was THE guy in the whole country that bought one of these, and i've only had it about a week. I bought it during HP's recent 'sale'.



    I'd like to say that i'm pretty unhappy with HP at the moment, and I have to wonder about the business logic of this move. They didn't sell enormous volumes, but they sold enough of these things that there are a couple hundred thousand people out there who are not going to be very happy right now. If they are much like me, they are currently putting this device back into its box in preparation to send it back to HP, and they are likely making plans to never purchase another HP product as long as they live.



    I mean really... put these things on sale, announce the price cut is permanent because consumers showed pleasing amounts of interest, and then kill the whole product line 1 week later, and barely more than a month after introduction? Absolutely horrendous.



    HP has created some ill will with this that isn't going away overnight.



    Regarding the device itself, I just have to say that WebOS truly is very nice. It suffers at the hands of its software, and it is pretty clear that HP rushed it to market. But it is sad that HP is so short sighted in this. A second round of better hardware would have gone a long way toward erasing the negative commentary.



    I've got an Amazon RMA and this thing is headed back to Amazon ASAP.



    What a sad, short life for something so promising; the buffoons at HP ought to be slapped.



    Apparently, they sold about 50,000 of these things while shipping as may as 500,000. That's a big loss. When taking R&D, manufacturing, sales and support costs into consideration, along with the fact that the new phones were just introduced to the UK with a big thud, as no one phone carrier is selling it, and even CarPhone Warehouse, the largest independent phone seller isn't carrying it, this must have cost them a very large amount of money.



    When you Add the $1.2 billion Palm cost them to buy, I shudder at the amount of money thrown at this disaster. They had to get out. I'm sorry you got caught up in it.



    But seriously, even for people who don't want to buy an Apple product, it's a very big risk right now to buy anything other than an iPad. It's better to wait and see how things shake out. I wouldn't be surprised if RIM announced the end of the Playbook line.



    Maybe you can get your money back. If they have a return policy for some period of time like 7 to 14 days. Now that it's been discontinued, they may be more liberal about it if you hurry.
  • Reply 196 of 253
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AppleLover2 View Post


    Because they will still have a huge hardware business. Or they could license it to other hardware manufacturers. Or do something else.



    My guess is that Samsung buys it and dumps Android.
  • Reply 197 of 253
    quinneyquinney Posts: 2,526member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post


    No, Apple would not own the manufacturing. I was suggesting something like what Foxconn is setting up for Brazil -- I am sure with Apple's approval.



    It won't work in all countries or regions. But, if Apple/Foxconn can package the assembly process so that it can be done, profitably, anywhere, increases market penetration, creates jobs (and fanout of support jobs), reduces tariffs, reduces prices to consumers -- all of which increase sales.



    Maybe, Governor Moonbeam can convince Foxconn to set up some assembly in California -- oh, there's that NIMBY thing.



    All he has to do is offer to suspend minimum wage, occupational health and safety, and environmental laws and allow them to pay zero tax and they might consider it.



    Edit: I think Foxconn just bought Cisco's set-top box plant in Juarez, so if they wanted to assemble iPads there, NAFTA would allow them to be imported into the US without tariff and worker and environmental protections are much weaker also. Maybe Jerry can try to get Foxconn execs a date with Linda Ronstadt or something.
  • Reply 198 of 253
    mactelmactel Posts: 1,275member
    I'm completely shocked to be honest. I thought the WebOS had legs and HP would find itself competing head on with Microsoft and Apple. This seems like a desparate measure at least on the WebOS front. I understand dropping the PC business though their system were pretty nice. Well, good luck with your new direction HP.



    WebOS was supposed to be used in their printers too. What will they do with their printer division?
  • Reply 199 of 253
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,907member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post


    No, Apple would not own the manufacturing. I was suggesting something like what Foxconn is setting up for Brazil -- I am sure with Apple's approval.



    It won't work in all countries or regions. But, if Apple/Foxconn can package the assembly process so that it can be done, profitably, anywhere, increases market penetration, creates jobs (and fanout of support jobs), reduces tariffs, reduces prices to consumers -- all of which increase sales.



    Maybe, Governor Moonbeam can convince Foxconn to set up some assembly in California -- oh, there's that NIMBY thing.



    The CEO of Hon Hai said that he would consider manufacturing Apple products in the USA, but he was afraid of too many lawsuits. He didn't seem to think, that with their factories being so highly automated, their costs would be so much different than making them in China, and shipping them over.
  • Reply 200 of 253
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AppleLover2 View Post


    To call this crap misleading is being kind. I'll put it more plainly: It is just simply wrong. It has no support in fact. It is bullshit.



    As such, it is irresponsible journalism.



    http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2011...y.html?_r=1&hp
Sign In or Register to comment.