New Android Amazon Kindle to abandon eInk and take on iPad with customized Android build

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  • Reply 41 of 103
    pokepoke Posts: 506member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by boredumb View Post


    I've been reading almost exclusively on a Kindle for about three and a half years.

    No eyestrain, no headaches.

    To me, dropping e-ink seems like a step backwards, especially in exchange for fairly limited tablet functionality.

    So instead, maybe a desperate attempt at lurching forward.

    But then, my tastes and MO aren't necessarily anyone else's.

    We can natter all we want, I suppose.

    The marketplace will decide.



    Personally I find reading from a backlit display easier than reading from an e-ink display or even a book. I will read faster and read for longer on my iPad. This is because I find that poor lighting is the biggest impediment to reading. I guess it's a matter of personal taste. That said, studies have found little evidence that backlighting is a major cause of eye strain.
  • Reply 42 of 103
    recrec Posts: 217member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by island hermit View Post


    I guess the question would be... "Does the Nook sell?".



    No access to an app store and stuck with a custom Froyo OS...



    Maybe... but it still looks like a hard sell to me.



    In a year there won't be a Nook. There won't be a Barnes & Noble either.
  • Reply 43 of 103
    jmmxjmmx Posts: 341member
    Re Not running Android apps



    Clearly their thinking is that if this device takes off, then developers will port to it. And if it does not, then it won't matter.



    With the smaller size and missing the camera, etc. they can hold down the costs. That will, however, limit its appeal. How many people rave against the iPhone and iPad because Android device X has a "better camera"?
  • Reply 44 of 103
    jragostajragosta Posts: 10,473member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    I don't think it's a fail, epic or otherwise, at this point. I think it's shaping up to be the Android tablet likely to garner the most unit sales.



    If you count the TouchPad fire sale, I doubt if that's true. If you don't count the TouchPad fire sale, it's no big deal. The Android tablet with the most sales - has anyone reached 1% of the iPad sales yet?



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by kajinoz View Post


    Almost as if Amazon is making the worst reader possible: no e-ink and not a full blown android.



    That's a good way to put it. Add in a single core CPU and small screen and it would be hard to take away any more features.



    Oh, but maybe it runs Flash?
  • Reply 45 of 103
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post


    See post #37 above. Amazon doesn't agree with you.



    Uh... an Amazon ad says 'our product is great'. Didn't HP's ads for its products say their tablet was great? Don't RIM's?



    This proves what, exactly?



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by addabox View Post


    For all the bluster about Apple "toys" and real computers, it's Android devices that seem to mostly serve as very simple internet browsing, social networking, email and media consumption devices. If Amazon can offer a cheap tablet that satisfies those needs, I think they'll satisfy a lot of potential Android tablet buyers.



    Indeed. iPads are being used by doctors, and by airlines as navigational aids. Serious work. But there's a place for 'toys' as well. Nothing wrong with that.
  • Reply 46 of 103
    mennomenno Posts: 854member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    Why do people keep stating Amazon would be dropping eInk-based Kindles?



    Because most people (errantly) assume that amazon wouldn't want to have two tablets. I think it's a great strategy to have both.



    First, I'd drop the "Kindle Offers" version of the Kindle (Eink) to $99. I think they might be able to do this, depending on how much the tech they need comes down in price. (hopefully new design will be buttonless like the nook touch, that thing is amazing, but all my books are Kindle)



    Release the "Kindle Tablet" or whatever they call it at $250.



    So you have people in at 99 or 114 (really, at least bring it to 109) with the Kindle Offers Eink tablet. This is the impulse buy, the college gift, etc. If they wanted they could have the NON-Offers version as well, but it might be smarter just to have a "upgrade" option, though it would have to do something other than simply remove the ads. (I'm thinking gift certificate style.. unlock your kindle for 30 and get a free $15 credit on your account)



    But then you'd have the 250 tablet to get people into the movies, or (even better) really start pushing the Kindle textbook rentals. This also has the amazon app store, which gives a free paid app every day. Granted, the apps aren't always winners and the process is kinda shady towards devs, but consumers don't care, they just see "I'm getting something for free."



    Without eink, I don't think I'll get a Kindle Tablet. But then again, I already have a Kindle3 and a Galaxy Tab, so I'm not exactly their target customer. My mother, brothers, and friends? Yeah, they'll be tempted. If Amazon really wants to knock it out of the park, make sure these devices have access to Netflix.
  • Reply 47 of 103
    sandausandau Posts: 1,230member
    smart. its an appliance.



    probably hook into the great Prime media ecosystem. $99 year all you can watch and listen and covers package shipping too. Amazon will do well with this and it'll be rootable for the geeks. win.
  • Reply 48 of 103
    What a bore! Another haphazardly thrown together piece of garbage with an outdated version of Android that wont even run Android apps. I cant believe Amazon thinks this is even remotely a good idea.
  • Reply 49 of 103
    tipootipoo Posts: 1,155member
    Jeff Bezos recently said in an interview that tablets aside, they would always make dedicated e-readers. So no, they aren't abandoning e-ink, just adding another product to their line.
  • Reply 50 of 103
    mennomenno Posts: 854member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sandau View Post


    smart. its an appliance.



    probably hook into the great Prime media ecosystem. $99 year all you can watch and listen and covers package shipping too. Amazon will do well with this and it'll be rootable for the geeks. win.



    I forgot about the prime tie in.. Yeah, that could get insane.



    I wouldn't be surprised if Amazon made a special "Deals" and "Prime Deals" app for them as well, for kindle books, movie rentals (not covered by prime) etc. to help encourage people to buy one.







    To people saying "This is another fail android tablet":



    1) Amazon won't market this as android. From what I'm reading, it doesn't have Android Market Access OR google apps (maps, mail, etc). This is more akin to what the Grid10 did with android than to Touchwiz. It's a Fork, and I think the'll push it as a "Kindle" and not as an android powered kindle. The only time they'd really want/need to mention that it runs on android is when they (might) stress that all apps users purchased in android app store will work on it. (I think the'll rebrand it Kindle App Store).



    2) Amazon is the ONLY company besides for Apple that has a pretty big content ecosystem to support a device. The have a Music service, a movie service, their own app store, amazon Prime, and a powerful brand. Expect to see a polished "amazon shopper" app debut on this device.



    3) Amazon is a well known company, and Kindle is a well known brand as well. That already puts it above other android offerings. Hopefully Amazon's marketing will be better as well, though being better than Xoom ads is a rather low target to aim for.
  • Reply 51 of 103
    mennomenno Posts: 854member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ericblr View Post


    What a bore! Another haphazardly thrown together piece of garbage with an outdated version of Android that wont even run Android apps. I cant believe Amazon thinks this is even remotely a good idea.



    you know, it helps if you read up on something before commenting on it.
  • Reply 52 of 103
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Menno View Post


    Because most people (errantly) assume that amazon wouldn't want to have two tablets. I think it's a great strategy to have both.



    First, I'd drop the "Kindle Offers" version of the Kindle (Eink) to $99.



    Exactly. Amazon has a wide-open opportunity to dominate the tablet market at all price points below Apple's iPad. They have that market all to themselves right now, aside from HP's recent fire-sale of course.



    There's always a chance Apple will want the low-end market, too (the way they did with the iPod), and introduce a lower-priced iPad. But they have been preoccupied with their current product, and have not figured out how to do that. And RIM is run by fools, Samsung can only copy Apple, and HP has thrown in the towel. None of them can figure it out. So this fleeting opportunity is Amazon's to lose.
  • Reply 53 of 103
    mennomenno Posts: 854member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mister Snitch View Post


    Exactly. Amazon has a wide-open opportunity to dominate the tablet market at all price points below Apple's iPad. They have that market all to themselves right now, aside from HP's recent fire-sale of course.



    There's always a chance Apple will want the low-end market, too (the way they did with the iPod), and introduce a lower-priced iPad. But they have been preoccupied with their current product, and have not figured out how to do that. And RIM is run by fools, Samsung can only copy Apple, and HP has thrown in the towel. None of them can figure it out. So this fleeting opportunity is Amazon's to lose.



    Yeah, just re-read MG's post a second time and saw something I missed at first:



    "Second, the plan right now is to give buyers a free subscription to Amazon Prime."



    that's a $79 value (I think) and gives them access to thousands of streaming tv shows, Free priority shipping, etc.. That's a CRAZY value... Might have to rethink about not wanting one now. I was considering a Prime membership anyway... If it has that option, it will be hard to turn down a $170 tablet.
  • Reply 54 of 103
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mister Snitch View Post


    This sounds like a true iPad alternative. The first I'd say really had a chance to succeed. I don't know about 'competitor' - it's not necessarily one or the other, but it's an alternative at least. The different form factor (smaller) and competitive (lower) price make it so.



    The guys who have been offering pretty much iPad clones - at higher prices, yet - what were they thinking? The only characteristic distinguishing them from the iPad was the ability to run Flash, and as the marketplace has loudly declared, that's not nearly enough.



    Amazon's brand recognition and trust among consumers rank somewhere near Apple's. They have an app ecosystem (don't know how good it is but they have it, and probably will improve it), they have the ability to sell content for the product, they have the marketing muscle, and they have existing customers to sell it to (especially buyers of older Kindles).



    Looks like a win.



    1) As H-P just demonstrated with its tablet fire sale, price means a LOT, not a little.



    2) I don't think Kindle buyers necessarily PREFER e-ink. That's far from proven. E-ink is just what you got at the Kindle price.



    3) The size of these things isn't for everyone, or for every occasion. On the other hand, neither is the iPad's size always optimal. Choice.



    4) I don't know that the article specifically stated that the device would NOT run Android apps. It will probably run some apps and not others, but it will also probably get apps optimized for it because of Amazon's proven ability to sell Kindles. (Which is the same reason most developers write for the iPad - Apple's track record.)



    You are so wrong. Pay half the price for a smaller device with a small fraction of the usability of a true tablet?



    All HP has proved was that people will buy some things when they are being sold at a fraction of their actual cost.



    Point 2 has been somewhat proven in eink's favor. Point 3 No company has yet to be truly successful selling small form factor tablets.



    Point 4 Tablets with standard versions of Android won't run all apps so how can a modified version of Android be more capable? Android version is not a standard release and can't be upgraded to a standard release version either.



    From the very begimning of this article:

    Amazon's next Kindle... a $250, 7 inch color touchscreen model based on Android, but incapable of accessing Google's app market or benefiting from future Android releases.
  • Reply 55 of 103
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Menno View Post


    you know, it helps if you read up on something before commenting on it.



    Actually maybe you should read first. It's going to run Android 2.2, be heavily customized, and stripped of an android market. Epic fail!
  • Reply 56 of 103
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    Why do people keep stating Amazon would be dropping eInk-based Kindles?



    Well, the article clearly said so, did it? It said "It's not yet clear whether Amazon will discontinue its eInk Kindles"

    Clearly the end of the line for the eInk Kindles.
  • Reply 57 of 103
    mennomenno Posts: 854member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ericblr View Post


    Actually maybe you should read first. It's going to run Android 2.2, be heavily customized, and stripped of an android market. Epic fail!



    And they're NOT going to market it as an android tablet. It's an AMAZON tablet. It's Forked. So OS version means nothing, the customization is meant to fit a familiar design (amazon.com), and it will have the amazon market.



    They are NOT targeting this at tech users, or at people who want an android tablet. This is a KINDLE, and they'll mention the android part as little as they possibly can.
  • Reply 58 of 103
    mennomenno Posts: 854member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post


    Well, the article clearly said so, did it? It said "It's not yet clear whether Amazon will discontinue its eInk Kindles"

    Clearly the end of the line for the eInk Kindles.







    Actually the source article says the following:



    Quote:

    As far as the existing e-ink-based Kindles, all I?ve heard is that they?ll continue to co-exist with this new tablet (though the DX may or may not stick around). They?ll simply be the low-end, low-cost Kindles, whereas this new one will be the high-end one (at least until the 10-inch version comes out, if it does). One source said it doesn?t seem likely that Amazon is going to release a touch-screen e-ink Kindle, like the new Nook, anytime soon. But none of that is confirmed, it?s simply speculation based on the emphasis on getting this new tablet to market.



    And considering MG actually Handled the device, and talked to amazon about it, I'll take his word for it over an AI writer who read his account and tried to take it as a "Amazon V Ipad" story.
  • Reply 59 of 103
    mennomenno Posts: 854member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Realistic View Post


    You are so wrong. Pay half the price for a smaller device with a small fraction of the usability of a true tablet?



    All HP has proved was that people will buy some things when they are being sold at a fraction of their actual cost.



    Point 2 has been somewhat proven in eink's favor. Point 3 No company has yet to be truly successful selling small form factor tablets.



    Point 4 Android with standard versions of Android won't run all apps so how well can a modified version of Android be more capable. Android version is not a standard release and can't be upgraded to a standard release version either.



    From the very begimning of this article:

    Amazon's next Kindle... a $250, 7 inch color touchscreen model based on Android, but incapable of accessing Google's app market or benefiting from future Android releases.



    Pay half price for a device that comes with thousands of free tv shows available to stream instantly, gives you a free paid app every day, runs frequent music sales where you can get an album for a fraction of the cost (and listen to it on any device).. oh yeah, and free 2 day shipping on any order from amazon.com. Not to mention have amazon's popular Kindle software in a device that's easily held in one hand and thus much more comfortable to hold for extended reading period.



    His point 2 is iffy. I prefer eink for reading, but I know a ton of people with the Nook Color who got it for the form factor. Don't knock the smaller form factor until you've tried it. Most people who review a 7 inch device tend to love the form factor, it's just a question of software.



    As for point 3, the tablet market is basically brand new. before the ipad no company was successful at selling a tablet period. the galaxy tab 7 was running an (old) version of android, and one that wasn't even made for tablets to boot. Plus, it had a high price point. The Playbook had a high pricepoint, horrible app support, and a really poor marketing campaign. Basing your opinions off of two devices is a bit dumb. Nook Color sales are doing pretty well, for the device. They're not ipad level sales, but B&N never expected them to be.



    4) App incompatibility with different versions of android is largely because the developers insist on hard coding everything with the NDK and refusing to use one of the third party options (like Unity) that make this process easier. But that's a non-issue. This won't have the android market. It will have the Amazon app store. You can pet amazon won't approve apps that aren't compatible with it's baby. As for sideloading, that is up to the user. It's not amazon's fault if side-loaded apps don't play well. They are NOT selling this as an android tablet, so anyone buying one thinking that is setting themselves up for disappointment.



    And this article was written in a way to put the device in the most negative light possible, which is damn hard to do because MG Seiglar (an strong apple supporter) came away IMPRESSED with his time with it.
  • Reply 60 of 103
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Menno View Post


    And considering MG actually Handled the device, and talked to amazon about it, I'll take his word for it over an AI writer who read his account and tried to take it as a "Amazon V Ipad" story.



    Either way, there may never be a "Kindle 4" eInk reader, so I guess this is the end of the line for Kindle fans. I base that conclusion on completely nothing. Kindle 3 will be the last Amazon eInk reader.
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