I had a B & W G3-300 and upgraded the HD to an IBM 40Gb 7200rpm and installed a LiteOn CDRW and finally a Sonnet G4-500 upgrade card and the machine is fast enough for light Quark/web/Photoshop but NOT video.
I have one small problem whilst the LiteOn is bootable I can only burn at 2X without getting coasters. It is not the drive as I have the same problem with an Iomega ZipCD, I have re-formatted the hard-drive and reloaded the software and the problem persists in both OS9 & OS X. I can only think this is to do with the Sonnet upgrade but I am stumped. Consequently I will upgrade when we have DDR, faster ATA support and 1.5ghz or above.
I think we are going to see probably a 100% performance increase over current systems by the autumn. I believe the story on The Register today and when you combine that with 10.2 that is the sort of performance increase I expect we will see.
What I don't understand is, (with the exception of RAM) all the stuff the upgraders are whining about can either be taken with them, or is built in to the new models (like CD-R).
I think the mentality is left over from the old legacy days. I had a 9600/350, and to this day I have yet to see a 6 slot mac. That machine made sense upgrading back then. The 9600 was better than the 1st gen G3's. From B&W on, upgrading just doesn't make sense. When I "upgraded" from my B&W G3 350, I bought a G4/400. The "trade in" cost me about $400 because I didn't wait. I brought my CD-R drive, my extra PCI video card, and my ATA drives from the G3 to the G4. It's not like you have to throw that stuff away, folks. When I bought RAM for my G4/400, I got the fastest coded ram. Why? So I could migrate forward again. When I bought the Dual 533, I took 1 512 stick from old G4 and stuck in new G4. I didn't need the CD-R anymore, as this cpu had one built in . I still use the extra vid card in the Dualie. All my USB and firewire devices from my G3 days? Use them on both G4's. I even moved SCSI cards between all machines and the drives attached to them.
Apple's problem of not making a significantly faster product has made us all wait for the "next big thing", while the upgrade gap gets larger and larger.
Well, back in the 9600 days, machines cost 5 grand. It made a lot more sense to put an $800 processor upgrade into a 5 grand machine, than now, where machines are rarely more than $3500, and drop to around under $2000 within 6-8 months of release.
I think the decision to upgrade has become less favorable not because of particulars of the design, but because the price of new machines is much less.
[ 05-24-2002: Message edited by: Bozo the Clown ]</p>
RadioHut didn't have small enough jumpers (some people there, erm). I've heard IDE jumpers are the right size? Will they work?</strong><hr></blockquote>
I'd say try 400 MHz. You don't need any new jumpers. Just remove one. Also, if I recall correctly, 450MHz only then requires moving a jumper. 350 MHz requires an additional jumper I believe. I say THINK OPTIMISTICALLY and try for 400 MHz before you run out and get more jumpers.
<strong>What I don't understand is, (with the exception of RAM) all the stuff the upgraders are whining about can either be taken with them, or is built in to the new models (like CD-R).</strong><hr></blockquote>
This is exactly my point. Since everything is basically the same, what's the point in buying a whole bunch of redundant hardware (HD, CD-ROM, PCI slots, etc.), just so you can have a faster processor?
My SCSI card, Radeon 7000, etc. aren't really gonna perform any better on a new machine.
I've got a Firewire 24X burner so why would I want another CD-RW in my machine? I bought PC133 RAM for my B&W specifically so that I could use it in a G4 if I got a new machine as well. However, if I could upgrade my processor to a ~700 MHz G4, then there would be no compelling reason to get a new machine until it has DDR RAM, ATA-100 (at least) controller and a faster FSB. If, however, upgrades don't get to more than 550MHz, then I'll wind up just waiting for a new model with these specs.
This is exactly my point. Since everything is basically the same, what's the point in buying a whole bunch of redundant hardware (HD, CD-ROM, PCI slots, etc.), just so you can have a faster processor?
My SCSI card, Radeon 7000, etc. aren't really gonna perform any better on a new machine.
I've got a Firewire 24X burner so why would I want another CD-RW in my machine? I bought PC133 RAM for my B&W specifically so that I could use it in a G4 if I got a new machine as well. However, if I could upgrade my processor to a ~700 MHz G4, then there would be no compelling reason to get a new machine until it has DDR RAM, ATA-100 (at least) controller and a faster FSB. If, however, upgrades don't get to more than 550MHz, then I'll wind up just waiting for a new model with these specs.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Good point. The memory architecture of the current Powermacs really isn't much different than that of the B&W G3s. A 133 MHz system bus isn't much faster than a 100 MHz bus, and surely isn't a reason to buy a new machine if CPU upgrades can be had for a good price.
The problem is that upgrade manufacturers seem to want to go out of business. Look at the latest dual 500 MHz G4 upgrade, at a time when new powermacs have dual 1 GHz CPUs, this dual 500 upgrade goes for nearly $1000!!! That's in****ingsane! I don't know the price of used dual 500 G4 powermacs, but it can't be more than $2000 I would think.
As soon as 800+ MHz G4 daughter cards are available, I'm buying one to overclock and slip into my Sawtooth Powermac--that way I'll be able to milk this tower for another 2-3 years before I'm forced to buy new Apple hardware, at which time the G6 rumors should be polluting the internet.
Good point. The memory architecture of the current Powermacs really isn't much different than that of the B&W G3s. A 133 MHz system bus isn't much faster than a 100 MHz bus, and surely isn't a reason to buy a new machine if CPU upgrades can be had for a good price.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
The memory bus is similar, but keep in mind that all post-Yikes G4s feature MaxBus rather than the old 60x bus as system bus. MaxBus is much more efficient even at the same clock speed.
"The problem is that upgrade manufacturers seem to want to go out of business."
This argument isn't even specious. It's because they want to stay in business that they must charge what they do. After having been in retail sales for almost a decade, it still amazes me how many folks take a manufacturer's pricing structure personally. These people (manufacturers, resellers, etc.) *have* to make a living, they don't *have* to make something *you* can afford or consider a bargain or feel you deserve.
Not to mention that the Sonnet dual upgrade has been priced at $699 for a good while and can easily be found for less than $650.
Exactly, naepstn. Why would I pay a whack of cash just so that I can have a 133 Mhz Bus? Other than a superdrive, that is the only other advantage to buying a new machine. And for me, that's just not enough. Plus, I have PC100 Ram in my machine. If I had a machine with a 133 mhz bus, I would be wanting to use 133 Ram, too. I would see none of the advantages of the faster bus, unless I bought new Ram. And I bought my Ram at a time when 133 was much more expensive that 100, incase you were wondering why I didn't just buy PC133 to begin with. Upgrading, for me, makes plenty of sense.
I'm extending the life of my G4 466 by getting a 'processor upgrade'. It's a 933MHz G4 with 2MB L3 cache. I have a GB of RAM invested in my machine. For $500 I can extend the life of my machine for 2 more years (as soon as I get my Radeon 8500 to replace this Rage128; QE here I come). Something great might be coming out at MWNY. And I'll be as happy as anyone. But I won't be able to afford it so this is a stopgag until I can get a newer machine.
Umm, what did you do exactly? Was someone selling a 933 daughter card and you just dropped it into your 466? Because that would suit me reeeeeal fine..... Places here in the UK sell 733 processor cards but I didnt know the Quicksilver ones fitted the digital audio motherboards... If so whoop whoop ! I'm happy!
They will work with no modification but you will have to bring a 12v wire to the 4th hole on the QS card. That hole does NOT get screwed to a post (or else the whole chassis would have a 12v + charge. not good) It's an easy mod.
Comments
RadioHut didn't have small enough jumpers (some people there, erm). I've heard IDE jumpers are the right size? Will they work?
I have one small problem whilst the LiteOn is bootable I can only burn at 2X without getting coasters. It is not the drive as I have the same problem with an Iomega ZipCD, I have re-formatted the hard-drive and reloaded the software and the problem persists in both OS9 & OS X. I can only think this is to do with the Sonnet upgrade but I am stumped. Consequently I will upgrade when we have DDR, faster ATA support and 1.5ghz or above.
I think we are going to see probably a 100% performance increase over current systems by the autumn. I believe the story on The Register today and when you combine that with 10.2 that is the sort of performance increase I expect we will see.
[ 05-24-2002: Message edited by: Addison ]</p>
I think the mentality is left over from the old legacy days. I had a 9600/350, and to this day I have yet to see a 6 slot mac. That machine made sense upgrading back then. The 9600 was better than the 1st gen G3's. From B&W on, upgrading just doesn't make sense. When I "upgraded" from my B&W G3 350, I bought a G4/400. The "trade in" cost me about $400 because I didn't wait. I brought my CD-R drive, my extra PCI video card, and my ATA drives from the G3 to the G4. It's not like you have to throw that stuff away, folks. When I bought RAM for my G4/400, I got the fastest coded ram. Why? So I could migrate forward again. When I bought the Dual 533, I took 1 512 stick from old G4 and stuck in new G4. I didn't need the CD-R anymore, as this cpu had one built in . I still use the extra vid card in the Dualie. All my USB and firewire devices from my G3 days? Use them on both G4's. I even moved SCSI cards between all machines and the drives attached to them.
Apple's problem of not making a significantly faster product has made us all wait for the "next big thing", while the upgrade gap gets larger and larger.
my .02
I think the decision to upgrade has become less favorable not because of particulars of the design, but because the price of new machines is much less.
[ 05-24-2002: Message edited by: Bozo the Clown ]</p>
<strong>Mmmm. Overclocking my G3...
RadioHut didn't have small enough jumpers (some people there, erm). I've heard IDE jumpers are the right size? Will they work?</strong><hr></blockquote>
I'd say try 400 MHz. You don't need any new jumpers. Just remove one. Also, if I recall correctly, 450MHz only then requires moving a jumper. 350 MHz requires an additional jumper I believe. I say THINK OPTIMISTICALLY and try for 400 MHz before you run out and get more jumpers.
<strong>What I don't understand is, (with the exception of RAM) all the stuff the upgraders are whining about can either be taken with them, or is built in to the new models (like CD-R).</strong><hr></blockquote>
This is exactly my point. Since everything is basically the same, what's the point in buying a whole bunch of redundant hardware (HD, CD-ROM, PCI slots, etc.), just so you can have a faster processor?
My SCSI card, Radeon 7000, etc. aren't really gonna perform any better on a new machine.
I've got a Firewire 24X burner so why would I want another CD-RW in my machine? I bought PC133 RAM for my B&W specifically so that I could use it in a G4 if I got a new machine as well. However, if I could upgrade my processor to a ~700 MHz G4, then there would be no compelling reason to get a new machine until it has DDR RAM, ATA-100 (at least) controller and a faster FSB. If, however, upgrades don't get to more than 550MHz, then I'll wind up just waiting for a new model with these specs.
<strong>
This is exactly my point. Since everything is basically the same, what's the point in buying a whole bunch of redundant hardware (HD, CD-ROM, PCI slots, etc.), just so you can have a faster processor?
My SCSI card, Radeon 7000, etc. aren't really gonna perform any better on a new machine.
I've got a Firewire 24X burner so why would I want another CD-RW in my machine? I bought PC133 RAM for my B&W specifically so that I could use it in a G4 if I got a new machine as well. However, if I could upgrade my processor to a ~700 MHz G4, then there would be no compelling reason to get a new machine until it has DDR RAM, ATA-100 (at least) controller and a faster FSB. If, however, upgrades don't get to more than 550MHz, then I'll wind up just waiting for a new model with these specs.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Good point. The memory architecture of the current Powermacs really isn't much different than that of the B&W G3s. A 133 MHz system bus isn't much faster than a 100 MHz bus, and surely isn't a reason to buy a new machine if CPU upgrades can be had for a good price.
The problem is that upgrade manufacturers seem to want to go out of business. Look at the latest dual 500 MHz G4 upgrade, at a time when new powermacs have dual 1 GHz CPUs, this dual 500 upgrade goes for nearly $1000!!! That's in****ingsane! I don't know the price of used dual 500 G4 powermacs, but it can't be more than $2000 I would think.
As soon as 800+ MHz G4 daughter cards are available, I'm buying one to overclock and slip into my Sawtooth Powermac--that way I'll be able to milk this tower for another 2-3 years before I'm forced to buy new Apple hardware, at which time the G6 rumors should be polluting the internet.
<strong>
Good point. The memory architecture of the current Powermacs really isn't much different than that of the B&W G3s. A 133 MHz system bus isn't much faster than a 100 MHz bus, and surely isn't a reason to buy a new machine if CPU upgrades can be had for a good price.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
The memory bus is similar, but keep in mind that all post-Yikes G4s feature MaxBus rather than the old 60x bus as system bus. MaxBus is much more efficient even at the same clock speed.
Bye,
RazzFazz
This argument isn't even specious. It's because they want to stay in business that they must charge what they do. After having been in retail sales for almost a decade, it still amazes me how many folks take a manufacturer's pricing structure personally. These people (manufacturers, resellers, etc.) *have* to make a living, they don't *have* to make something *you* can afford or consider a bargain or feel you deserve.
Not to mention that the Sonnet dual upgrade has been priced at $699 for a good while and can easily be found for less than $650.
[ 05-25-2002: Message edited by: hot cha ]</p>
Check it out!!!!
I'm extending the life of my G4 466 by getting a 'processor upgrade'. It's a 933MHz G4 with 2MB L3 cache. I have a GB of RAM invested in my machine. For $500 I can extend the life of my machine for 2 more years (as soon as I get my Radeon 8500 to replace this Rage128; QE here I come). Something great might be coming out at MWNY. And I'll be as happy as anyone. But I won't be able to afford it so this is a stopgag until I can get a newer machine.
They will work with no modification but you will have to bring a 12v wire to the 4th hole on the QS card. That hole does NOT get screwed to a post (or else the whole chassis would have a 12v + charge. not good) It's an easy mod.