Apple is claiming that the Galaxy Tab is so similar to the iPad that people are purchasing it because of that similarity, as in, they are losing sales of iPads because the customers are picking up a competing product instead.
Don't forget Apple's man source of new customers, the technologically illiterate. They sell to Joe Everyman, to Mom and Pop, to grandmothers and teenagers.
The target audience makes mistakes all the time. It used to be that Apple customers were savvy technology buffs. Now Apple is the default choice of the unwashed masses, who don't know Android sh*t from Apple's Shinola.
They didn't copy identically. They're not trying to pass touchwiz tabs off as an ipad, they're not claiming they run iOS or that they're run by apple.
If they were a DIRECT copy, or even something as similar as touchwiz on galaxy S phones, there might be more of an argument here. But that's not what's happening. Samsung is proudly saying they made these, and that they run android (not iOS)
The issue is they dressed it up like the iPad from the look to the packaging. They think that they can shift more units by looking like an iPad.
I pity the poor kids that get one of these for Christmas instead of an iPad as honeycomb is truly awful in its current state not to mention the screen ratio used on these tablets, fine for movies but poor for everything else.
the Tab's actually the same price. And realistically they should look at both numbers, as well as Apple's projected numbers both before the Tab launch, and what they had to adjust them to because of "lost" sales over the Tab.
If they really wanted to be exact, they'd need to track down ipad and tab buyers and question them about WHY they bought that one, and why they didn't choose the other one. There are people who wouldn't buy an ipad, even if samsung didn't have a tab (and they went for a transformer instead) such as myself. I have a lot of money invested in the android market, and I have no desire to start from the bottom rung again with iOS and give up all the amazing cloud services I use now (specifically Google Docs) because they don't translate well onto iOS devices.
I'm guessing you got the tab for free or really cheap? Now you are suffering from buyers remorse and are here defending your poorly thought out purchase? Just sayin...
I'm guessing you got the tab for free or really cheap? Now you are suffering from buyers remorse and are here defending your poorly thought out purchase? Just sayin...
question...do you honestly believe that no one can truly just like Android?
This is probably quite true seeing as no one wants a Samsung tablet outside of Korea.
no one wants a tablet other than an iPad.
The competitors are not up to par and Google handled the whole tablet launch poorly. Honeycomb was buggy...and may still be, I don't really read much about it.
The app selection on Android is poor for tablets...
And yea...something drastic has to happen for anything to compete with Apple in the tablet space...
1) Stop partnering up with Carriers...600 + a contract for a tablet that's NOT an iPad? fire whomever came up with that idea.
2) Sell for at a minimum 200 dollars less than the iPad...
3) Sell in stores...pay for floor space...make yourself visible.
All in all...I think only Google as a newfound hardware manufacturer could possibly take on Apple...and even then they'd probably settle for 10-20% of the market as the iPad will continue to improve
I'm guessing you got the tab for free or really cheap? Now you are suffering from buyers remorse and are here defending your poorly thought out purchase? Just sayin...
No, I paid full price for it on launch day and I have yet to regret my purchase.
The issue is they dressed it up like the iPad from the look to the packaging. They think that they can shift more units by looking like an iPad.
I pity the poor kids that get one of these for Christmas instead of an iPad as honeycomb is truly awful in its current state not to mention the screen ratio used on these tablets, fine for movies but poor for everything else.
The packaging is completely different from the ipad's. If for no other reason than it has SAMSUNG pasted all over the thing.
If someone buys it thinking it's an ipad, they're blind.
Don't forget Apple's man source of new customers, the technologically illiterate. They sell to Joe Everyman, to Mom and Pop, to grandmothers and teenagers.
The target audience makes mistakes all the time. It used to be that Apple customers were savvy technology buffs. Now Apple is the default choice of the unwashed masses, who don't know Android sh*t from Apple's Shinola.
And even my uncle and grandmother, who are not tech buffs, knew within seconds of handling my tab that it wasn't the same as my uncles ipad.
Maybe some illiterate luddites wouldn't know the difference, but they wouldn't buy a tablet computer in the first place.
And it has a big "SAMSUNG" pasted on the front of it.
In their press releases, trade shows, and MARKETING material they mention Android. They don't say it ALL the time because they're trying to sell you a SAMSUNG tablet, not an Android tablet.
Let's say Apple releases sales figures. Say they sold 40 million in the U.S. and 10 million in the UK. How does that tell you ANYTHING about whether Samsung's device is an illegal copy or whether Samsung's device hurt Apple? ...
Not total sales numbers, but monthly sales figures could tell a lot. If iPad 1 sales had been at about 100,000 per month for six months, after the initial rush, and, upon introduction of the Samsung product, there was no change, or even an increase, in iPad 1 sales then it could be argued that since there was no affect to iPad 1 sales that it hasn't negatively affected Apple.
If the data was at all favorable to Apple's case they would have released it.
And it has a big "SAMSUNG" pasted on the front of it.
No doubt, no doubt. Clearly you realize, since you are not a fool, that I was proposing a counterexample to the latter part of your earlier claim. Note your use of the word and in that earlier claim...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Menno
Samsung is proudly saying they made these, and that they run android (not iOS)
... from which you retreat gracefully by tacitly admitting that your statement isn't always true, but it is apparently true often enough not to matter...
< Shades of "Fonzie" from "Happy Days", who never could admit he was actually wrong about anything. >
Quote:
Originally Posted by Menno
They don't say it ALL the time because they're trying to sell you a SAMSUNG tablet, not an Android tablet.
Very true that, and with good reason. Android tablets have very few Apps, sales, and generally poor reviews (with some few exceptions, hardly enough to reverse the reputation). Note that the 1 minute spot also steers clear of the word "Apps", because Samsung really doesn't want to lie (i.e. tout how many wonderful Apps are available for the GT) but they don't want to tell the truth either (i.e. admit how few wonderful Apps are available for the GT).
The bottom line is that that spot is very cleverly trying to frame the GT as nothing but a "better" iPad (comparing itself to the current tablet without naming it... very clever). It's sad that in order to do so, it needs to stay away from the word "Android" and all that implies. I don't think that Samsung is at all proud of Android. It's just the best thing they can use, for now, and they are compelled to include it in their spec sheets. When they can do without mentioning it, or at least make it take a back seat, they absolutely will.
So basically, it's ok to sell counterfeit goods as long as nobody buys them.
The only differences are the degree to which the copying takes place and the branding (Apple Stoer). If someone makes devices designed just like iPods running a different OS, people are going to be duped:
"I sent a message back to 'em and they're like haha whatever and so I mean... they're in China, what the shit am I gonna do? Y'know go throw a rock at 'em from Minnesota?"
In the case of these tablets, Samsung is showing that they are copying Apple across their range of products in hardware and software and the similarities are close enough that someone could mistake someone using a Galaxy Tab as using an iPad. Someone seeing an iPad could easily buy a Galaxy instead not knowing the difference.
Obviously there's no way that Apple can prove they are losing sales if they have a "mother of all backlogs" because they can't make them fast enough. However, when Samsung does gain marketshare, then it becomes a problem and it's going to be harder for the courts to ban an already popular product. They need to act before Samsung can profit from their misdeeds.
Don't forget Apple's man source of new customers, the technologically illiterate. They sell to Joe Everyman, to Mom and Pop, to grandmothers and teenagers.
The target audience makes mistakes all the time. It used to be that Apple customers were savvy technology buffs. Now Apple is the default choice of the unwashed masses, who don't know Android sh*t from Apple's Shinola.
Yeah, but then... how many people will end up buying iPad thinking that they are getting Honeycomb tablet?
It might be Apple is getting more than loosing with this "same look" thing.
Let's say Apple releases sales figures. Say they sold 40 million in the U.S. and 10 million in the UK. How does that tell you ANYTHING about whether Samsung's device is an illegal copy or whether Samsung's device hurt Apple? How would the sales figures tell you what sales would have been if Samsung had come up with their own design?
Hint: they don't. There is absolutely nothing in the sales figures that tells you anything about what sales would have been without an illegal copy on the market. And even if you could somehow estimate what sales would have been, how does that tell you how much damage came from the similarity of the products and how much from just having another product on the market?
But feel free to try. Use my figures above. 40 million iPads in the U.S. and 10 million in the UK. Tell us how you'd get from that data point to an estimate of how much damage Samsung's copy caused Apple.
Data is meaningless if misused. And you apparently don't have any understanding of how data should be used.
question is how many were sold, lets say total sales for 3 months before the galaxy tab was released. Than compare to how many were sold 3 in the next 3 months
This is probably quite true seeing as no one wants a Samsung tablet outside of Korea.
Mate, that is so fan-biased...
I, for one, want Android (though I'll wait for Win8 before I make up my mind). I had iPad for 2 months, before I gave it to my mom, and while I liked it, it didn't do some things I want from tablet. So I'll gladly swap some of polish for some functionality.
Comments
Apple is claiming that the Galaxy Tab is so similar to the iPad that people are purchasing it because of that similarity, as in, they are losing sales of iPads because the customers are picking up a competing product instead.
Don't forget Apple's man source of new customers, the technologically illiterate. They sell to Joe Everyman, to Mom and Pop, to grandmothers and teenagers.
The target audience makes mistakes all the time. It used to be that Apple customers were savvy technology buffs. Now Apple is the default choice of the unwashed masses, who don't know Android sh*t from Apple's Shinola.
They didn't copy identically. They're not trying to pass touchwiz tabs off as an ipad, they're not claiming they run iOS or that they're run by apple.
If they were a DIRECT copy, or even something as similar as touchwiz on galaxy S phones, there might be more of an argument here. But that's not what's happening. Samsung is proudly saying they made these, and that they run android (not iOS)
The issue is they dressed it up like the iPad from the look to the packaging. They think that they can shift more units by looking like an iPad.
I pity the poor kids that get one of these for Christmas instead of an iPad as honeycomb is truly awful in its current state not to mention the screen ratio used on these tablets, fine for movies but poor for everything else.
the Tab's actually the same price. And realistically they should look at both numbers, as well as Apple's projected numbers both before the Tab launch, and what they had to adjust them to because of "lost" sales over the Tab.
If they really wanted to be exact, they'd need to track down ipad and tab buyers and question them about WHY they bought that one, and why they didn't choose the other one. There are people who wouldn't buy an ipad, even if samsung didn't have a tab (and they went for a transformer instead) such as myself. I have a lot of money invested in the android market, and I have no desire to start from the bottom rung again with iOS and give up all the amazing cloud services I use now (specifically Google Docs) because they don't translate well onto iOS devices.
I'm guessing you got the tab for free or really cheap? Now you are suffering from buyers remorse and are here defending your poorly thought out purchase? Just sayin...
Then Apple has no reasons to block the sales of the Samsung tablet...
This is probably quite true seeing as no one wants a Samsung tablet outside of Korea.
I'm guessing you got the tab for free or really cheap? Now you are suffering from buyers remorse and are here defending your poorly thought out purchase? Just sayin...
question...do you honestly believe that no one can truly just like Android?
So basically, it's ok to sell counterfeit goods as long as nobody buys them.
they aren't selling a counterfeit item, the ones I have seen in the shop have the samsung logo on the back, that alone means they are not counterfeit
Is it fair no but that is what happens. The samsung is not bad at all it just isn't what many coustomers think they are getting.
Did you just make that up? Or do you have any references to actual facts to support your statements?
This is probably quite true seeing as no one wants a Samsung tablet outside of Korea.
no one wants a tablet other than an iPad.
The competitors are not up to par and Google handled the whole tablet launch poorly. Honeycomb was buggy...and may still be, I don't really read much about it.
The app selection on Android is poor for tablets...
And yea...something drastic has to happen for anything to compete with Apple in the tablet space...
1) Stop partnering up with Carriers...600 + a contract for a tablet that's NOT an iPad? fire whomever came up with that idea.
2) Sell for at a minimum 200 dollars less than the iPad...
3) Sell in stores...pay for floor space...make yourself visible.
All in all...I think only Google as a newfound hardware manufacturer could possibly take on Apple...and even then they'd probably settle for 10-20% of the market as the iPad will continue to improve
I'm guessing you got the tab for free or really cheap? Now you are suffering from buyers remorse and are here defending your poorly thought out purchase? Just sayin...
No, I paid full price for it on launch day and I have yet to regret my purchase.
The issue is they dressed it up like the iPad from the look to the packaging. They think that they can shift more units by looking like an iPad.
I pity the poor kids that get one of these for Christmas instead of an iPad as honeycomb is truly awful in its current state not to mention the screen ratio used on these tablets, fine for movies but poor for everything else.
The packaging is completely different from the ipad's. If for no other reason than it has SAMSUNG pasted all over the thing.
If someone buys it thinking it's an ipad, they're blind.
Don't forget Apple's man source of new customers, the technologically illiterate. They sell to Joe Everyman, to Mom and Pop, to grandmothers and teenagers.
The target audience makes mistakes all the time. It used to be that Apple customers were savvy technology buffs. Now Apple is the default choice of the unwashed masses, who don't know Android sh*t from Apple's Shinola.
And even my uncle and grandmother, who are not tech buffs, knew within seconds of handling my tab that it wasn't the same as my uncles ipad.
Maybe some illiterate luddites wouldn't know the difference, but they wouldn't buy a tablet computer in the first place.
Here's a 1 minute spot for the Galaxy Tab 10.1 in which Samsung never mentions Android once.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMW7xDM-XXI
Seems like a counterexample to your claim, Menno.
Thompson
And it has a big "SAMSUNG" pasted on the front of it.
In their press releases, trade shows, and MARKETING material they mention Android. They don't say it ALL the time because they're trying to sell you a SAMSUNG tablet, not an Android tablet.
None of that makes any sense.
Let's say Apple releases sales figures. Say they sold 40 million in the U.S. and 10 million in the UK. How does that tell you ANYTHING about whether Samsung's device is an illegal copy or whether Samsung's device hurt Apple? ...
Not total sales numbers, but monthly sales figures could tell a lot. If iPad 1 sales had been at about 100,000 per month for six months, after the initial rush, and, upon introduction of the Samsung product, there was no change, or even an increase, in iPad 1 sales then it could be argued that since there was no affect to iPad 1 sales that it hasn't negatively affected Apple.
If the data was at all favorable to Apple's case they would have released it.
And it has a big "SAMSUNG" pasted on the front of it.
No doubt, no doubt. Clearly you realize, since you are not a fool, that I was proposing a counterexample to the latter part of your earlier claim. Note your use of the word and in that earlier claim...
Samsung is proudly saying they made these, and that they run android (not iOS)
... from which you retreat gracefully by tacitly admitting that your statement isn't always true, but it is apparently true often enough not to matter...
< Shades of "Fonzie" from "Happy Days", who never could admit he was actually wrong about anything. >
They don't say it ALL the time because they're trying to sell you a SAMSUNG tablet, not an Android tablet.
Very true that, and with good reason. Android tablets have very few Apps, sales, and generally poor reviews (with some few exceptions, hardly enough to reverse the reputation). Note that the 1 minute spot also steers clear of the word "Apps", because Samsung really doesn't want to lie (i.e. tout how many wonderful Apps are available for the GT) but they don't want to tell the truth either (i.e. admit how few wonderful Apps are available for the GT).
The bottom line is that that spot is very cleverly trying to frame the GT as nothing but a "better" iPad (comparing itself to the current tablet without naming it... very clever). It's sad that in order to do so, it needs to stay away from the word "Android" and all that implies. I don't think that Samsung is at all proud of Android. It's just the best thing they can use, for now, and they are compelled to include it in their spec sheets. When they can do without mentioning it, or at least make it take a back seat, they absolutely will.
Thompson
Note: Menno has acknowledged Samsung's cloning of Apple products.
It seems to me he acknowledged Samsung's "cloning" of Apple products.
So basically, it's ok to sell counterfeit goods as long as nobody buys them.
The only differences are the degree to which the copying takes place and the branding (Apple Stoer). If someone makes devices designed just like iPods running a different OS, people are going to be duped:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGOghB89hQ0
In the case of these tablets, Samsung is showing that they are copying Apple across their range of products in hardware and software and the similarities are close enough that someone could mistake someone using a Galaxy Tab as using an iPad. Someone seeing an iPad could easily buy a Galaxy instead not knowing the difference.
Obviously there's no way that Apple can prove they are losing sales if they have a "mother of all backlogs" because they can't make them fast enough. However, when Samsung does gain marketshare, then it becomes a problem and it's going to be harder for the courts to ban an already popular product. They need to act before Samsung can profit from their misdeeds.
Counterfeit? Really?
Don't forget Apple's man source of new customers, the technologically illiterate. They sell to Joe Everyman, to Mom and Pop, to grandmothers and teenagers.
The target audience makes mistakes all the time. It used to be that Apple customers were savvy technology buffs. Now Apple is the default choice of the unwashed masses, who don't know Android sh*t from Apple's Shinola.
Yeah, but then... how many people will end up buying iPad thinking that they are getting Honeycomb tablet?
It might be Apple is getting more than loosing with this "same look" thing.
None of that makes any sense.
Let's say Apple releases sales figures. Say they sold 40 million in the U.S. and 10 million in the UK. How does that tell you ANYTHING about whether Samsung's device is an illegal copy or whether Samsung's device hurt Apple? How would the sales figures tell you what sales would have been if Samsung had come up with their own design?
Hint: they don't. There is absolutely nothing in the sales figures that tells you anything about what sales would have been without an illegal copy on the market. And even if you could somehow estimate what sales would have been, how does that tell you how much damage came from the similarity of the products and how much from just having another product on the market?
But feel free to try. Use my figures above. 40 million iPads in the U.S. and 10 million in the UK. Tell us how you'd get from that data point to an estimate of how much damage Samsung's copy caused Apple.
Data is meaningless if misused. And you apparently don't have any understanding of how data should be used.
question is how many were sold, lets say total sales for 3 months before the galaxy tab was released. Than compare to how many were sold 3 in the next 3 months
This is probably quite true seeing as no one wants a Samsung tablet outside of Korea.
Mate, that is so fan-biased...
I, for one, want Android (though I'll wait for Win8 before I make up my mind). I had iPad for 2 months, before I gave it to my mom, and while I liked it, it didn't do some things I want from tablet. So I'll gladly swap some of polish for some functionality.
Advantage Samsung