LA Times critic disparages Apple Campus 2 as 'retrograde cocoon'

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  • Reply 121 of 305
    flaneurflaneur Posts: 4,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by rbryanh View Post


    Exactly. Departing from the rectalinear environment in which our species evolved is foolish. Human beings are too detached from our environment already - we need to return to the comforting right angles of the natural world.



    Good one. I wonder if he'll get it.
  • Reply 122 of 305
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by photoshop59 View Post


    I would not want to work in a circular environment like that. There is a reason that most of our architecture is right angled, and logical. People will feel out of sorts, disoriented, and uncomfortable in a space like this.



    exactly. workers don't know how to process open space. it confuses and frightens them.



    they're much happier in a traditional rectangular shapes, preferably with low ceilings and lots of artificial light. windows can also confuse a worker's sense of space by looking out on something larger and making the space they're in seem smaller, so let's ditch those too.



    by subdividing the main space into lots of cozy sub-rectangles we create a pen-like environment which makes workers feel safe, calm and appreciated.



    nobody wants to work in an office shaped like the Guggenheim.
  • Reply 123 of 305
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by photoshop59 View Post


    I would not want to work in a circular environment like that. There is a reason that most of our architecture is right angled, and logical. People will feel out of sorts, disoriented, and uncomfortable in a space like this.



    The real reason most architecture is square is because it's the lowest common denominator (cheap & easy).



    I once worked in a building that was about 1/4 of a circle on one end - think "J" shaped building, where the curve was long and graceful. It was a friggin awesome building! All of the folks who worked there enjoyed it alot. It felt like it was 3 times larger than it actually was.
  • Reply 124 of 305
    citycity Posts: 522member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by zoetmb View Post


    That's why many new suburban developments are moving towards mixed used (retail, office, residential) that include "town centers" and modes of human interaction and away from the shopping mall, big box stores and strip malls that constitute much of American suburban development today.



    With a potential of 12,000 customers nearby mixed-use projects with stores, restaurants and apartments/condominiums are likely to evolve. The City counsel would probably accommodate the zoning changes to scrape some $1m two to three bedroom homes. Go for it!
  • Reply 125 of 305
    Just where does this hack writer believe Apple should put thirteen-thousand people now and thirteen-thousand more people in 2018? With all the crap that Steve Jobs went through for ten years to demolish an old house, how long would it take to get several buildings condemned and torn down in the center of any old city? It would take FOREVER!



    Plugging in that many employees into several adjacent existing buildings might work but it would be very inefficient for employee movement between sections. Imagine how many people would need to be going up and down elevators and crossing streets to get to different sections of the campus. It would be a waste of time. One location is the most efficient way to keep things flowing smoothly.



    I would be good if Apple Created a larger bus system to transport employees to and from work instead of needing to have such a huge parking lot. Apple already has a bus fleet.
  • Reply 126 of 305
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by city View Post


    With a potential of 12,000 customers nearby mixed-use projects with stores, restaurants and apartments/condominiums are likely to evolve. The City counsel would probably accommodate the zoning changes to scrape some $1m two to three bedroom homes. Go for it!



    There are luxury apartments and shopping centers (that need to be updated btw) a few blocks away already....
  • Reply 127 of 305
    Quote:

    1. What is wrong with a suburban setting?



    It's a long, long list. The writing on the subject is encyclopedic. In short, the suburbs are parasitic, isolating, wasteful, a major factor in our deadly sedentary lifestyle, and of course ugly, cheap, and ephemeral. Above all, a suburban life is a disposable life.



    Quote:

    2. Old fashioned? It wouldn't matter what shape was chosen, this guy would dig back through history to find something to compare it to, and still call it old fashioned.



    His comparison to the Pentagon is particularly apt ? a huge, hollow structure surrounded by the clogged highways it created, like an animal fouling its own nest. Given the vast range of choices available to Apple, a 1950's "Lost in Space" reference is both disappointing and a tragic waste of an opportunity.



    Quote:

    3. I agree is has a decidedly 60-70's look to it. Is there something wrong with that?



    Quite a bit. It's morbid, and coming from what regards itself as the single most innovative institution on the planet, bizarrely hypocritical. If nothing else, whoever decided everyone should work in the Jupiter II forgot to "think different."



    Quote:

    4. Apple is one of the "greenest" companies around.



    Hawthorne is right to expose the oxymoron of a "green" building that will require hundreds of thousands of car trips per year. It's rather like they're putting solar panels on a coal-fired power plant. Any resource-responsible aspects of the campus will be significantly offset by the negative behavior required anyone who needs or wants to go there. "Green" is about long-term impact, not light bulbs.



    Quote:

    5. This guy uses cars as an argument against Apple's environmental efforts? What a bone-head. First, where in the world can you put a building where people won't need cars to get there?



    Gee, uh, I dunno? Let's ask go ask the nearest kindergarten class and time how many seconds it takes for the whole room to shout "In the city!"



    I'm 52, have lived in DC, New York, Chicago, San Francisco, and Seattle and have never owned a car or in any way missed having one. I've much of my waking life in offices, and have yet to drive to work. It's easy, safe, and environmentally sound. Commuting is stupid, wasteful, and destructive. Cars are for fat lazy chumps who buy crap in strip malls.



    By the way, the argument to tradition is a logical fallacy. "We've always done it that way" has been used to support everything from toxic waste dumps to slavery.



    Quote:

    6. His use of "pastoral capitalism" as an argument suggests that if he had his way, everyone would work in big cities. Guess what dude, not everyone wants to do that?



    Guess what, dude? That fact that many people do or don't want do a thing says nothing about the logic, responsibility, destructiveness, or sanity of the behavior. Like your argument to tradition above, the argument ad populum is a logical fallacy generally covered in high school. In practice, what most people want almost always involves short-term pleasure achieved at the expense of long-term sanity.



    "Pastoral capitalism" is when the eloi surround themselves with trees, fields, ponds, and espresso machines while the underage morlocks who build the products live, sleep, eat, and work 14 hour days as indentured servants in a factory they can never leave.



    7. This was an interesting phrase: "Apple's campus... keeps itself aloof from the world around it to a degree that is unusual even in a part of California dominated by office parks." So, Chris, what, you're a conformist then? Or maybe a communist? Maybe Apple wants to stay a bit detached from the noise, congestion and commotion going on around them, so they can focus on their work in a quiet, peaceful environment. Once again you paint this as a negative. What the heck is wrong with it?



    Isolation is socially destructive and intellectually stifling. Healthy people and organizations mingle. Cults, however, keep their members in cages to prevent them from being contaminated by unbelievers.



    The reason America's greatest scientific resource is its 50 or so top research universities has nothing to do with ivy and a lot to do with throwing a lot of people from different disciplines doing a huge number of different things in a relatively confined area. In contrast, Apple's monolithic new environment will resemble a mega-church far more than a campus.
  • Reply 128 of 305
    citycity Posts: 522member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Sierrajeff View Post


    There's a huge-a$$ parking garage forming a wall hundreds of yards long along Interstate 280.




    I think the parking structure is open on all sides with cable rails, but if it isn't it will be great for super-size advertising legal or otherwise.
  • Reply 129 of 305
    john.bjohn.b Posts: 2,720member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Sierrajeff View Post


    Uh, why? Did this guy single-handedly create L.A.'s car culture? Did he force every Angeleno, decades ago, to vote against public transit and build freeways?



    Don't be so snide and simple, it just negates anything substantive might you have to say.



    Snark is called for in this case. Hawthorne , as "Architecture Critic for the Los Angeles Times", should solve LA/SoCal's problems first -- before looking to NorCal for things to complain about. Having lived in both locales (briefly, thankfully, in L.A.) I can attest that L.A. has no functional mass transit. At least the Bay Area takes a stab at it.



    Here's my question for you; what would you have done differently to make this campus more mass transit friendly given the site available and the current mass transit infrastructure (CalTrain, etc.)?



    What this really comes down to is that any effort a company makes toward being green will only set them up for failure. There will never be a perfect Experimental Prototype Community Of Tomorrow because the company won't be able to afford to build and maintain it and the people won't live in it given other options. Someone will always complain that it's not enough. If you want a sacrificial lamb, go find the guy who decided to tax Silicon Valley land at it's best and highest use; that's when the original orchards and green spaces were doomed.



    Apropos of nothing; Google has the closest implementation of your hive/borgship concept, and that's only so they can take care of their worker bees who aren't capable of cooking and cleaning for themselves.
  • Reply 130 of 305
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by rbryanh View Post


    Cars are for fat lazy chumps who buy crap in strip malls.



    Hmmmm... I was willing to listen until I reached that point and then I just turned away realizing that I was reading a bile driven fantasy...
  • Reply 131 of 305
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by rbryanh View Post


    It's a long, long list. The writing on the subject is encyclopedic. In short, the suburbs are parasitic, isolating, wasteful, a major factor in our deadly sedentary lifestyle, and of course ugly, cheap, and ephemeral. Above all, a suburban life is a disposable life.







    His comparison to the Pentagon is particularly apt ? a huge, hollow structure surrounded by the clogged highways it created, like an animal fouling its own nest. Given the vast range of choices available to Apple, a 1950's "Lost in Space" reference is both disappointing and a tragic waste of an opportunity.







    Quite a bit. It's morbid, and coming from what regards itself as the single most innovative institution on the planet, bizarrely hypocritical. If nothing else, whoever decided everyone should work in the Jupiter II forgot to "think different."







    Hawthorne is right to expose the oxymoron of a "green" building that will require hundreds of thousands of car trips per year. It's rather like they're putting solar panels on a coal-fired power plant. Any resource-responsible aspects of the campus will be significantly offset by the negative behavior required anyone who needs or wants to go there. "Green" is about long-term impact, not light bulbs.







    Gee, uh, I dunno? Let's ask go ask the nearest kindergarten class and time how many seconds it takes for the whole room to shout "In the city!"



    I'm 52, have lived in DC, New York, Chicago, San Francisco, and Seattle and have never owned a car or in any way missed having one. I've much of my waking life in offices, and have yet to drive to work. It's easy, safe, and environmentally sound. Commuting is stupid, wasteful, and destructive. Cars are for fat lazy chumps who buy crap in strip malls.



    By the way, the argument to tradition is a logical fallacy. "We've always done it that way" has been used to support everything from toxic waste dumps to slavery.







    Guess what, dude? That fact that many people do or don't want do a thing says nothing about the logic, responsibility, destructiveness, or sanity of the behavior. Like your argument to tradition above, the argument ad populum is a logical fallacy generally covered in high school. In practice, what most people want almost always involves short-term pleasure achieved at the expense of long-term sanity.



    "Pastoral capitalism" is when the eloi surround themselves with trees, fields, ponds, and espresso machines while the underage morlocks who build the products live, sleep, eat, and work 14 hour days as indentured servants in a factory they can never leave.



    7. This was an interesting phrase: "Apple's campus... keeps itself aloof from the world around it to a degree that is unusual even in a part of California dominated by office parks." So, Chris, what, you're a conformist then? Or maybe a communist? Maybe Apple wants to stay a bit detached from the noise, congestion and commotion going on around them, so they can focus on their work in a quiet, peaceful environment. Once again you paint this as a negative. What the heck is wrong with it?



    Isolation is socially destructive and intellectually stifling. Healthy people and organizations mingle. Cults, however, keep their members in cages to prevent them from being contaminated by unbelievers.



    The reason America's greatest scientific resource is its 50 or so top research universities has nothing to do with ivy and a lot to do with throwing a lot of people from different disciplines doing a huge number of different things in a relatively confined area. In contrast, Apple's monolithic new environment will resemble a mega-church far more than a campus.



    You've told us what shouldn't be done, pretty much anything they have planned now. Tell us what you would do specifically as far as location, shape, size, transportation etc. The devil is in the details.
  • Reply 132 of 305
    .



    LA Times has an "Architecture Critic" ?



    .







    .
  • Reply 133 of 305
    "retrograde cocoon?" That's silly.



    There's nothing retrograde about it, by his own admission that is has a 'futuristic gleam' and a 'spaceship.' Apple is cocoon-ish, that's their corporate culture..



    Unless this guy means that cocoons are, by definition, retrograde. If so, he's redundant.
  • Reply 134 of 305
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BC Kelly View Post


    .



    LA Times has an "Architecture Critic" ?



    .







    .



    Would someone please drive a stake into Ayn Rand's heart once and for all?
  • Reply 135 of 305
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Robin Huber View Post


    Would someone please drive a stake into Ayn Rand's heart once and for all?



    Ayn Rand has a heart?!
  • Reply 136 of 305
    Christopher Hawthorne can lick my balls
  • Reply 137 of 305
    Christopher Hawthorne enjoy that.
  • Reply 138 of 305
    flaneurflaneur Posts: 4,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by island hermit View Post


    Ayn Rand has a heart?!



    Hah! Maybe her liver, then. I got the stake.
  • Reply 139 of 305
    john.bjohn.b Posts: 2,720member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by island hermit View Post


    Ayn Rand has a heart?!







    Despite all of her belched bile, she went on the dole (Medicare, Social Security) under her husband's last name when she got cancer from the cigs she spent her adult life claiming were perfectly safe.



    Source: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michae..._b_792184.html



  • Reply 140 of 305
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by robot View Post


    "we express fundamental American values of openness and respect for the surrounding environment. "



    You're kidding, right?



    No not kidding.



    At our best (or at least in our history), America has represented those ideals to ourselves and the world. Our architecture, as a cultural expression, can express and reinforce those values and ideals.



    USA: historically most open nation to immigration

    USA: the first great democracy in modern times

    USA: First nation to create national parks

    USA: First nation to protect individual species from extinction (vis birds from feather hunters in the year 1900)

    USA: First (or early) environmental protection agengy

    USA: First campus planning typology that connected the academic campus to the surrounding community

    etc, etc.
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