speaking out on the deal, google chief executive larry page said in august that he feels "anticompetitive" patent litigation on the parts of apple and microsoft deemed the proposed purchase of motorola necessary.
[ Google BS translator working... ]
[ DONE! See results below. ]
Quote:
speaking out on the deal, google chief executive larry page said in august that he feels apple and microsoft refusing to be bullied and allow their ip to be stolen by google and their partners deemed the proposed purchase of motorola necessary.
the anti-Google/Android/Anything non Apple on Apple sites is stronger than the anti-Apple on anything non Apple sites...well at least Google and Android as I'm not sure how Microsoft fanboys are or if they truly exist in such a capacity.
If you really believe what you are saying. Yet alone Phandroid.com and a half dozen other Android fanboy sites. You routinely get the iToy, iCrap, iFillInTheBadWord for any Apple product or user.
MMI shifting towards MS?! Huh?! A company that is in trouble like Nokia shifting over to the 50:1 shot. Shit... they'd be dead before the first Win phone hit the street.
But MMI actually had indicated just days before the purchase they were looking at also supporting WP7. On the record they said that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit
So what if MMI goes after HTC and Samsung? How is that going to change the landscape any more than the purchase of MMI has changed the landscape. Mueller just doesn't make sense to me.
Icahn, one of the single largest share holders in MMI, specifically mentioned that as something MMI needs to start doing. FM did not say that, a single, very large shareholder, indicated MMI needed to star going after the mobile handset makers in the industry. All that were left to go after were the other Android handset makers. Do you really want in-fighting between all your partners? It would be devastating.
Apparently you haven't read the "Masochist me?" article over at Arstechnica today then. The anti-Apple in there is pretty ridiculous. I'm sure some will debate about Ars being an Apple or non-Apple site, but Apple coverage is only one of many things they do there.
Most "tech whores" sites are staunchly anti-Apple. Ars forums members, but Ars Editors aren't so bad. DailyTech on the other hand, can scarcely hide their contempt for the brand. Apple's success only makes it worse.
But MMI actually had indicated just days before the purchase they were looking at also supporting WP7. On the record they said that.
Icahn, one of the single largest share holders in MMI, specifically mentioned that as something MMI needs to start doing. FM did not say that, a single, very large shareholder, indicated MMI needed to star going after the mobile handset makers in the industry. All that were left to go after were the other Android handset makers. Do you really want in-fighting between all your partners? It would be devastating.
There is the reason for the purchase... threats.
You still haven't indicated how that changes the landscape any more than it has changed with the purchase. Samsung and HTC have both indicated they might go in-house since this purchase.
I don't buy this threat business. You've already got fighting between the players and it will only get worse once this purchase is approved.
You're basically saying that Google is absolute wimp. If that's the case then they might as fold their tent right now because Apple, Oracle and MS have only just started to make Google's life miserable. The MMI purchase doesn't change that.
Apple, in its history, has not engaged in the type of blockbuster acquisitions taken on by Google, and none of Apple's purchases have crossed even a half-billion dollars.
Yup, Apple is a class act unto itself. Google just don't get it. Apple is so cool, so gallant, so debonaire. There is just no other company like it anywhere. Google is like The Three Stooges showing up in frocks where ever it travels or opens its mouth. Big splash, no class.
The Pod is Apple's. The Pad is Apple's. Ultra Light is Apple's.
MicroSoft has its Tablet.
Google? Still working on an original idea. Boy that must grow some headache.
Makes you wonder what type of due diligence Google did for a $12.5 billion purchase. My guess is not much and they have little idea of the type or quality of patents they are getting.
Do you play cards? I've got a weekly game with lots of good people, and we are always looking for a new fish, um, err, a new person who makes guesses of the type you made above.
If there were three spades showing, and I bet all in, what guess would you make about my hole cards? Would you guess that I have little idea of the type or quality of the hands I could make?
We need more players like you, especially if you like to get drunk and have lots of disposable income! Drop me a line.
Most companies can only wish that their management team was so "completely stupid".
While Page and Brin showed absolute brilliance in forming Google the jury is still out imo on having Page at the helm. He's only been CEO for the past 5 months and already, again, imo, he's made some moves that seem quite questionable.
If you really believe what you are saying. Yet alone Phandroid.com and a half dozen other Android fanboy sites. You routinely get the iToy, iCrap, iFillInTheBadWord for any Apple product or user.
Sigh. So on one hand, you think you're better than them. And on the other, since they're jumping off the metaphorical cliff, you should have the right to do so too.
the anti-Google/Android/Anything non Apple on Apple sites is stronger than the anti-Apple on anything non Apple sites...well at least Google and Android as I'm not sure how Microsoft fanboys are or if they truly exist in such a capacity.
Yes, opinions run strong on both sides. Do you ever read the Phandroid blog though? I hop between that one, BGR, and AppleInsider every day because I enjoy reading about the latest tech. The anti-Apple bias displayed by Phandroid followers, however, is ridiculous. I rarely read the comments anymore because they are, for the most part, just so juvenile. The level of "intelligent" discussion is much higher here on AI.
Says the guy who's surely managed an advertising company to a market cap of $200 billion....
If it's that easy for advertisers, can you please point me to a few more advertising firms growing as fast as Google? I'd like to invest.
This is what I posted on another thread explaining why Google sucks and this $12.5 Billion acquisition is idiotic.
A company's Return on Invested Capital is the ultimate measure of a company's valuation. Basically, ROIC is a measure of how efficient a company is in using its capital to generate returns.
Let's compare Apple and Google's ROIC. Apple's return on invested capital is 30.4% with 5 year average of 26.1% despite Apple having lower gross profit margins compared to Google. a 30.4% ROIC is amazingly high for a "hardware company". Google's return on invested capital is only 18.3% with 5 year aveage of 17.2%. Why?
Different types of growth earn different degrees of return so not all growth is equally value-creating. Growth strategies based on organic new product development (ie. iPod, iPhone, iPad, iMac, etc.) frequently have the highest returns because they dont require much new capital. Apple can add new products to their existing factory lines and distribution systems, without much capital expenditure. The investments to produce new products are not all required at once. If preliminary results are not promising, future investments can be scaled back or canceled.
Contrast this with Google's growth strategy of acquiring companies (Motorola, Youtube, Android, Doubleclick, etc.). Acquisitions require that the entire investment be made up front. The amount of up-front payment reflects the expected cash flows from the target company plus a premium to stave off other bidders. So even if Google can improve the target company enough to generate an attractive ROIC, the rate of return is typically only a small amount higher than its cost of capital. Factor in the additional traffic acquisition costs and costs of running hundreds of thousands of servers to support Google search, Youtube, Blogspot, GMail, etc. and you'll see why Google's return on invested capital is much lower compared to Apple.
Google also has a habit of wasting money on money-losing initiatives with low ROIC (Google's $280-million solar power initiative, self driving cars, etc.) which further dilutes its average returns. Wall Street perceives the $12.5 Billion Moto acquisition as an expensive and inefficient use of capital that will further dilute the company's ROIC.The recent $500 million settlement with the DOJ is another concern.
and that is why Apple is the most valuable company in the world. Meanwhile, Google's market cap has been stucked in the $170-$200B range for a couple of years or so.
Here's the number one rule of conservation of value: "anything that doesn't increase cash flows doesn't create value".
If you really believe what you are saying. Yet alone Phandroid.com and a half dozen other Android fanboy sites. You routinely get the iToy, iCrap, iFillInTheBadWord for any Apple product or user.
yes, it does exist...and I hate it there even more than here (they reflect badly upon me, being a fan of Android - iffy on Google but a fan of Android).
It seems to be a loud minority (or a slight majority depending on the site) of Android users who scream anti-Apple statements randomly without provocation whereas on this site it seems the majority of Apple lovers are anti-anything not Apple...
Another interesting thing I've noticed is that Android fans routinely criticize Android and Google....but I have yet to see in my year and half of visiting this site (been a member for a month but always came here for the 'news' and news) any commenter criticizing Apple or iOS for ANYthing...it's shocking really.
hell, I've seen articles criticizing and questioning Android/Google/the higher-ups with regularity.
Apparently you haven't read the "Masochist me?" article over at Arstechnica today then. The anti-Apple in there is pretty ridiculous. I'm sure some will debate about Ars being an Apple or non-Apple site, but Apple coverage is only one of many things they do there.
ars technica is a neutral site so that doesn't really count.
Another interesting thing I've noticed is that Android fans routinely criticize Android and Google....but I have yet to see in my year and half of visiting this site (been a member for a month but always came here for the 'news' and news) any commenter criticizing Apple or iOS for ANYthing...it's shocking really.
hell, I've seen articles criticizing and questioning Android/Google/the higher-ups with regularity.
There's a couple of distinct groups here. I've seen complaints about Apple products and/or services fairly often from the group that seems most current, knowledgeable and courteous . Agreed that there's a very small but vocal element that seems incapable of finding a single flaw with Apple or it's products, and even one or two that are here only to post anti-Google info, adding little if anything to the discussions. But claiming that Apple criticism doesn't exist here really isn't fair.
If the odd posters with nothing better to do than post inflammatory anti-Apple (or anti Steve Jobs) junk were less plentiful, the knowledgeable regulars might be more apt to write more honest appraisals. As is I don't fault them for keeping ammunition out of the hands of those that have no idea what it's used for.
FWIW I've found several diehard Apple fanatics here that can also see issues and problems and are willing to write about them. Treat them courteously, avoid personal attacks and accusations, and you're treated fairly in return IMO, even when being critical.
There's a couple of distinct groups here. I've seen complaints about Apple products and/or services fairly often from the group that seems most current, knowledgeable and courteous . Agreed that there's a very small but vocal element that seems incapable of finding a single flaw with Apple or it's products, and even one or two that are here only to post anti-Google info, adding little if anything to the discussions. But claiming that Apple criticism doesn't exist here really isn't fair.
If the odd posters with nothing better to do than post inflammatory anti-Apple (or anti Steve Jobs) junk were less plentiful, the knowledgeable regulars might be more apt to write more honest appraisals. As is I don't fault them for keeping ammunition out of the hands of those that have no idea what it's used for.
FWIW I've found several diehard Apple fanatics here that can also see issues and problems and are willing to write about them. Treat them courteously, avoid personal attacks and accusations, and you're treated fairly in return IMO, even when being critical.
Absolute non-sense from a Pro-Android Apple-hating fanatic. jk
Comments
speaking out on the deal, google chief executive larry page said in august that he feels "anticompetitive" patent litigation on the parts of apple and microsoft deemed the proposed purchase of motorola necessary.
[ Google BS translator working... ]
[ DONE! See results below. ]
speaking out on the deal, google chief executive larry page said in august that he feels apple and microsoft refusing to be bullied and allow their ip to be stolen by google and their partners deemed the proposed purchase of motorola necessary.
the anti-Google/Android/Anything non Apple on Apple sites is stronger than the anti-Apple on anything non Apple sites...well at least Google and Android as I'm not sure how Microsoft fanboys are or if they truly exist in such a capacity.
If you really believe what you are saying. Yet alone Phandroid.com and a half dozen other Android fanboy sites. You routinely get the iToy, iCrap, iFillInTheBadWord for any Apple product or user.
MMI shifting towards MS?! Huh?! A company that is in trouble like Nokia shifting over to the 50:1 shot. Shit... they'd be dead before the first Win phone hit the street.
But MMI actually had indicated just days before the purchase they were looking at also supporting WP7. On the record they said that.
So what if MMI goes after HTC and Samsung? How is that going to change the landscape any more than the purchase of MMI has changed the landscape. Mueller just doesn't make sense to me.
Icahn, one of the single largest share holders in MMI, specifically mentioned that as something MMI needs to start doing. FM did not say that, a single, very large shareholder, indicated MMI needed to star going after the mobile handset makers in the industry. All that were left to go after were the other Android handset makers. Do you really want in-fighting between all your partners? It would be devastating.
There is the reason for the purchase... threats.
Apparently you haven't read the "Masochist me?" article over at Arstechnica today then. The anti-Apple in there is pretty ridiculous. I'm sure some will debate about Ars being an Apple or non-Apple site, but Apple coverage is only one of many things they do there.
Most "tech whores" sites are staunchly anti-Apple. Ars forums members, but Ars Editors aren't so bad. DailyTech on the other hand, can scarcely hide their contempt for the brand. Apple's success only makes it worse.
But MMI actually had indicated just days before the purchase they were looking at also supporting WP7. On the record they said that.
Icahn, one of the single largest share holders in MMI, specifically mentioned that as something MMI needs to start doing. FM did not say that, a single, very large shareholder, indicated MMI needed to star going after the mobile handset makers in the industry. All that were left to go after were the other Android handset makers. Do you really want in-fighting between all your partners? It would be devastating.
There is the reason for the purchase... threats.
You still haven't indicated how that changes the landscape any more than it has changed with the purchase. Samsung and HTC have both indicated they might go in-house since this purchase.
I don't buy this threat business. You've already got fighting between the players and it will only get worse once this purchase is approved.
You're basically saying that Google is absolute wimp. If that's the case then they might as fold their tent right now because Apple, Oracle and MS have only just started to make Google's life miserable. The MMI purchase doesn't change that.
http://macdailynews.com/2011/09/14/g...erty-lawsuits/
they are alienating their partners building there own gPhone
M$ will make sure bing is everywhere, google loses their access to data and search revenue
wow
M$ AOL AND YAHOO build partnerships
google now becomes the focus
next up apple develops its own search
all that data given up, i don't think apple should help fund another competitor
develop apple search
Apple, in its history, has not engaged in the type of blockbuster acquisitions taken on by Google, and none of Apple's purchases have crossed even a half-billion dollars.
Yup, Apple is a class act unto itself. Google just don't get it. Apple is so cool, so gallant, so debonaire. There is just no other company like it anywhere. Google is like The Three Stooges showing up in frocks where ever it travels or opens its mouth. Big splash, no class.
The Pod is Apple's. The Pad is Apple's. Ultra Light is Apple's.
MicroSoft has its Tablet.
Google? Still working on an original idea. Boy that must grow some headache.
Makes you wonder what type of due diligence Google did for a $12.5 billion purchase. My guess is not much and they have little idea of the type or quality of patents they are getting.
Do you play cards? I've got a weekly game with lots of good people, and we are always looking for a new fish, um, err, a new person who makes guesses of the type you made above.
If there were three spades showing, and I bet all in, what guess would you make about my hole cards? Would you guess that I have little idea of the type or quality of the hands I could make?
We need more players like you, especially if you like to get drunk and have lots of disposable income! Drop me a line.
The preponderance of evidence is that Google is completely stupid at the management level, yes.
Google Profits Up 36%, Besting Wall Street Expectations
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/...55275720110714
With A New Sense Of Purpose, Google?s Market Cap Closes In On $200 Billion
http://techcrunch.com/2011/07/24/wit...n-200-billion/
Most companies can only wish that their management team was so "completely stupid".
Google Profits Up 36%, Besting Wall Street Expectations
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/...55275720110714
With A New Sense Of Purpose, Google?s Market Cap Closes In On $200 Billion
http://techcrunch.com/2011/07/24/wit...n-200-billion/
Most companies can only wish that their management team was so "completely stupid".
Google sells effective ads. Advertisers are desperate to pay for effective ads. A monkey could make money managing such a company.
New Google products are driven by their best-in-class engineers (copyright infringement notwithstanding), not by management.
I doubt there's much disagreement that Google's been a bit weak in their top ranks. Just one opinion of course.
Google Profits Up 36%, Besting Wall Street Expectations
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/...55275720110714
With A New Sense Of Purpose, Google’s Market Cap Closes In On $200 Billion
http://techcrunch.com/2011/07/24/wit...n-200-billion/
Most companies can only wish that their management team was so "completely stupid".
While Page and Brin showed absolute brilliance in forming Google the jury is still out imo on having Page at the helm. He's only been CEO for the past 5 months and already, again, imo, he's made some moves that seem quite questionable.
Time will tell...
If you really believe what you are saying. Yet alone Phandroid.com and a half dozen other Android fanboy sites. You routinely get the iToy, iCrap, iFillInTheBadWord for any Apple product or user.
Sigh. So on one hand, you think you're better than them. And on the other, since they're jumping off the metaphorical cliff, you should have the right to do so too.
Very mature.
I wish I could do that.
"Well sir, we need time to review your bid..."
"How 'bout another billion?"
"Uhhh..."
"How about 3?"
"Okay!"
"Great, now write up the papers before I change my mind."
Google sells effective ads. Advertisers are desperate to pay for effective ads. A monkey could make money managing such a company.
Says the guy who's surely managed an advertising company to a market cap of $200 billion....
If it's that easy for advertisers, can you please point me to a few more advertising firms growing as fast as Google? I'd like to invest.
the anti-Google/Android/Anything non Apple on Apple sites is stronger than the anti-Apple on anything non Apple sites...well at least Google and Android as I'm not sure how Microsoft fanboys are or if they truly exist in such a capacity.
Yes, opinions run strong on both sides. Do you ever read the Phandroid blog though? I hop between that one, BGR, and AppleInsider every day because I enjoy reading about the latest tech. The anti-Apple bias displayed by Phandroid followers, however, is ridiculous. I rarely read the comments anymore because they are, for the most part, just so juvenile. The level of "intelligent" discussion is much higher here on AI.
Says the guy who's surely managed an advertising company to a market cap of $200 billion....
If it's that easy for advertisers, can you please point me to a few more advertising firms growing as fast as Google? I'd like to invest.
This is what I posted on another thread explaining why Google sucks and this $12.5 Billion acquisition is idiotic.
A company's Return on Invested Capital is the ultimate measure of a company's valuation. Basically, ROIC is a measure of how efficient a company is in using its capital to generate returns.
Let's compare Apple and Google's ROIC. Apple's return on invested capital is 30.4% with 5 year average of 26.1% despite Apple having lower gross profit margins compared to Google. a 30.4% ROIC is amazingly high for a "hardware company". Google's return on invested capital is only 18.3% with 5 year aveage of 17.2%. Why?
Different types of growth earn different degrees of return so not all growth is equally value-creating. Growth strategies based on organic new product development (ie. iPod, iPhone, iPad, iMac, etc.) frequently have the highest returns because they dont require much new capital. Apple can add new products to their existing factory lines and distribution systems, without much capital expenditure. The investments to produce new products are not all required at once. If preliminary results are not promising, future investments can be scaled back or canceled.
Contrast this with Google's growth strategy of acquiring companies (Motorola, Youtube, Android, Doubleclick, etc.). Acquisitions require that the entire investment be made up front. The amount of up-front payment reflects the expected cash flows from the target company plus a premium to stave off other bidders. So even if Google can improve the target company enough to generate an attractive ROIC, the rate of return is typically only a small amount higher than its cost of capital. Factor in the additional traffic acquisition costs and costs of running hundreds of thousands of servers to support Google search, Youtube, Blogspot, GMail, etc. and you'll see why Google's return on invested capital is much lower compared to Apple.
Google also has a habit of wasting money on money-losing initiatives with low ROIC (Google's $280-million solar power initiative, self driving cars, etc.) which further dilutes its average returns. Wall Street perceives the $12.5 Billion Moto acquisition as an expensive and inefficient use of capital that will further dilute the company's ROIC.The recent $500 million settlement with the DOJ is another concern.
and that is why Apple is the most valuable company in the world. Meanwhile, Google's market cap has been stucked in the $170-$200B range for a couple of years or so.
Here's the number one rule of conservation of value: "anything that doesn't increase cash flows doesn't create value".
If you really believe what you are saying. Yet alone Phandroid.com and a half dozen other Android fanboy sites. You routinely get the iToy, iCrap, iFillInTheBadWord for any Apple product or user.
yes, it does exist...and I hate it there even more than here (they reflect badly upon me, being a fan of Android - iffy on Google but a fan of Android).
It seems to be a loud minority (or a slight majority depending on the site) of Android users who scream anti-Apple statements randomly without provocation whereas on this site it seems the majority of Apple lovers are anti-anything not Apple...
Another interesting thing I've noticed is that Android fans routinely criticize Android and Google....but I have yet to see in my year and half of visiting this site (been a member for a month but always came here for the 'news' and news) any commenter criticizing Apple or iOS for ANYthing...it's shocking really.
hell, I've seen articles criticizing and questioning Android/Google/the higher-ups with regularity.
Apparently you haven't read the "Masochist me?" article over at Arstechnica today then. The anti-Apple in there is pretty ridiculous. I'm sure some will debate about Ars being an Apple or non-Apple site, but Apple coverage is only one of many things they do there.
ars technica is a neutral site so that doesn't really count.
Another interesting thing I've noticed is that Android fans routinely criticize Android and Google....but I have yet to see in my year and half of visiting this site (been a member for a month but always came here for the 'news' and news) any commenter criticizing Apple or iOS for ANYthing...it's shocking really.
hell, I've seen articles criticizing and questioning Android/Google/the higher-ups with regularity.
There's a couple of distinct groups here. I've seen complaints about Apple products and/or services fairly often from the group that seems most current, knowledgeable and courteous . Agreed that there's a very small but vocal element that seems incapable of finding a single flaw with Apple or it's products, and even one or two that are here only to post anti-Google info, adding little if anything to the discussions.
If the odd posters with nothing better to do than post inflammatory anti-Apple (or anti Steve Jobs) junk were less plentiful, the knowledgeable regulars might be more apt to write more honest appraisals. As is I don't fault them for keeping ammunition out of the hands of those that have no idea what it's used for.
FWIW I've found several diehard Apple fanatics here that can also see issues and problems and are willing to write about them. Treat them courteously, avoid personal attacks and accusations, and you're treated fairly in return IMO, even when being critical.
There's a couple of distinct groups here. I've seen complaints about Apple products and/or services fairly often from the group that seems most current, knowledgeable and courteous . Agreed that there's a very small but vocal element that seems incapable of finding a single flaw with Apple or it's products, and even one or two that are here only to post anti-Google info, adding little if anything to the discussions.
If the odd posters with nothing better to do than post inflammatory anti-Apple (or anti Steve Jobs) junk were less plentiful, the knowledgeable regulars might be more apt to write more honest appraisals. As is I don't fault them for keeping ammunition out of the hands of those that have no idea what it's used for.
FWIW I've found several diehard Apple fanatics here that can also see issues and problems and are willing to write about them. Treat them courteously, avoid personal attacks and accusations, and you're treated fairly in return IMO, even when being critical.
Absolute non-sense from a Pro-Android Apple-hating fanatic.