On that particular point we completely agree. This wasn't designed with Apple in mind, and won't be marketed that way either, no matter that Amazon made a "some want to sell for more and some want to sell for less" statement. That was for media attention. This is plainly aimed at the Nook Color.
Rather than scattershot, looks like Amazon is plenty smart enough to concentrate on one target at a time.
Yeah. It's too bad the media needs to make headlines that seem to have it look as though they compete. I see no problem with them existing side by side.
I don't know what they are really planning for a rumored 10 in version sometime next year.
The Fire is not a tablet, it is a content delivery device, with Amazon supplying all the content.
Also, pay attention to the bit about EC2 doing all the web browser rendering. Amazon now gets to collect demographic information about what web pages the owner surfs, and can then resell that information to various parties. Plus it can tell what ebay pages you look at, and match those to similar products on amazon.com.
Follow the money trail !
Best post in the thread.
Amazon is just getting them into users' hand. They have tallied the cost of each one and determined that this is part of the budget for the bigger picture of being a destination for the user. They don't want to be an electronics hardware company. They would make a 20 inch tablet with Android 1.3 or if they thought it would start the ball rolling towards becoming a premier content provider. Whether they can achieve this or not is where we can applaud or scoff, but it's the same as MacDonalds spending $XX million on billboards for the penetration. They're spending XX million to start this and it won't start if there are 10 Android tablets all sharing the same $425 niche and the Fire is just one of them.
No he's not, and neither are the people who are getting all giddy over this tablet, simply because of the cheap price.
It's plain common sense, people who are buying this because it's cheap will also be cheap when it comes to buying content.
Exactly. This is like Android phone buyers. I recently read an article from a study that stated that Android buyers mostly use their phones as a feature phone, not a smartphone. They buy very few apps, music and video for them. Mostly they use them for calls, texting, IM and social purposes.
I imagine that a lot of Fire buyers will hope to use it mainly for that too.
I'm concerned about B&N. Even though the Nookcolor has been a surprising minor hit, this could destroy that company. It could end the last chance for B&N, and that's sad.
I agree. B&N stock was down nearly 7% today, much more than the market. I suppose it could have been worse. AAPL was pretty flat (actually, relative to the market decline today, slightly up).
The market's interpreting this, perhaps overall, as "let's wait and see - the volume is going to be given in margins."
Like I said the Kindle will ship pre-configured with your Amazon account info, and there is no need to have a PC to set it up or sync with it...unlike the iPad. This is just another reason the Kindle is a hit, and helps the Kindle Fire as well.
For its limited functionality, that's fine.
But more important, you're forgetting the fact that iCloud will obviate the need for the iPad/iPhone/iPod to have a PC to sync with. Indeed, I thought that was a pretty lame point that Bezos was making today.
Somehow, I doubt they'd launch an entire product line without having some business analyst crunch the numbers first.
Of course they have analysts.
So what? Everyone has analysts.
The question is whether they can keep up with the market's expectation of the margin needed (what they give up with Fire has to be made up elsewhere, lowering margins there) to justify their very high price (have you seen Amazon's P/E ratio?).
Exactly. This is like Android phone buyers. I recently read an article from a study that stated that Android buyers mostly use their phones as a feature phone, not a smartphone. They buy very few apps, music and video for them. Mostly they use them for calls, texting, IM and social purposes.
I imagine that a lot of Fire buyers will hope to use it mainly for that too.
Google won't be able to count these because the 'activation' of Kindle Fire would not go through Google at all. In fact Amazon, as usual, will keep their sales secret.
Other folks (surveys) will try to count them but won't be accurate because as I mentioned, Amazon won't publish sales figure.
I don't know. Silk's browser share would be a pretty decent indication of how many people have (and use) the devices.
Not terribly accurate, sure, but not a bad indication, either.
really doesn't matter if amazon loses money. books, music, movies are their core business and the market is going to where the product is locked to a hardware platform. if amazon doesn't do anything they will lose these businesses. if they break even over the long term and find other products to bring in the profits they are still ahead of the power curve
like their cloud business that is soon going to host iCloud for apple
If an analyst says anything that can in any way be seen as detrimental to Apple, every syllable he speaks must be dissected for hidden meanings until his statements are parsed into oblivion.
But if an analyst says something that may be seen as advantageous to Apple, it must not be questioned in any way at all, no matter how specious or ridiculous it may be.
Thatcher: "Mr. Kane, the paper just lost a million dollars. A million dollars! We can''t go on like this!"
Kane: "You're right, Mr. Thatcher, we did just lose a million dollars. We lost a million dollars last year too, and next year we'll probably lose another million dollars. Why, at that rate we'll need to close the paper...in sixty years."
That is cute. But most companies don't run their cash down like that except for Microsoft. And Amazon is already run close to the edge. In addition, public companies can't do what private ones can, and their earnings are down about 25% this year already. And that from that measly 3.37% ($1.2 billion) last year on sales of $34 billion.
Comments
On that particular point we completely agree. This wasn't designed with Apple in mind, and won't be marketed that way either, no matter that Amazon made a "some want to sell for more and some want to sell for less" statement. That was for media attention. This is plainly aimed at the Nook Color.
Rather than scattershot, looks like Amazon is plenty smart enough to concentrate on one target at a time.
Yeah. It's too bad the media needs to make headlines that seem to have it look as though they compete. I see no problem with them existing side by side.
I don't know what they are really planning for a rumored 10 in version sometime next year.
The Fire is not a tablet, it is a content delivery device, with Amazon supplying all the content.
Also, pay attention to the bit about EC2 doing all the web browser rendering. Amazon now gets to collect demographic information about what web pages the owner surfs, and can then resell that information to various parties. Plus it can tell what ebay pages you look at, and match those to similar products on amazon.com.
Follow the money trail !
Best post in the thread.
Amazon is just getting them into users' hand. They have tallied the cost of each one and determined that this is part of the budget for the bigger picture of being a destination for the user. They don't want to be an electronics hardware company. They would make a 20 inch tablet with Android 1.3 or if they thought it would start the ball rolling towards becoming a premier content provider. Whether they can achieve this or not is where we can applaud or scoff, but it's the same as MacDonalds spending $XX million on billboards for the penetration. They're spending XX million to start this and it won't start if there are 10 Android tablets all sharing the same $425 niche and the Fire is just one of them.
No he's not, and neither are the people who are getting all giddy over this tablet, simply because of the cheap price.
It's plain common sense, people who are buying this because it's cheap will also be cheap when it comes to buying content.
Exactly. This is like Android phone buyers. I recently read an article from a study that stated that Android buyers mostly use their phones as a feature phone, not a smartphone. They buy very few apps, music and video for them. Mostly they use them for calls, texting, IM and social purposes.
I imagine that a lot of Fire buyers will hope to use it mainly for that too.
I'm concerned about B&N. Even though the Nookcolor has been a surprising minor hit, this could destroy that company. It could end the last chance for B&N, and that's sad.
I agree. B&N stock was down nearly 7% today, much more than the market. I suppose it could have been worse. AAPL was pretty flat (actually, relative to the market decline today, slightly up).
The market's interpreting this, perhaps overall, as "let's wait and see - the volume is going to be given in margins."
Like I said the Kindle will ship pre-configured with your Amazon account info, and there is no need to have a PC to set it up or sync with it...unlike the iPad. This is just another reason the Kindle is a hit, and helps the Kindle Fire as well.
For its limited functionality, that's fine.
But more important, you're forgetting the fact that iCloud will obviate the need for the iPad/iPhone/iPod to have a PC to sync with. Indeed, I thought that was a pretty lame point that Bezos was making today.
Somehow, I doubt they'd launch an entire product line without having some business analyst crunch the numbers first.
Of course they have analysts.
So what? Everyone has analysts.
The question is whether they can keep up with the market's expectation of the margin needed (what they give up with Fire has to be made up elsewhere, lowering margins there) to justify their very high price (have you seen Amazon's P/E ratio?).
Are you planning to buy $2,000 from Amazon next year? If not, then their model is off, assuming you buy the Fire.
That just about nails it.
Exactly. This is like Android phone buyers. I recently read an article from a study that stated that Android buyers mostly use their phones as a feature phone, not a smartphone. They buy very few apps, music and video for them. Mostly they use them for calls, texting, IM and social purposes.
I imagine that a lot of Fire buyers will hope to use it mainly for that too.
You and I read different articles apparently. . .
http://blog.nielsen.com/nielsenwire/...rtphone-users/
http://blog.nielsen.com/nielsenwire/...and-apple-ios/
Google won't be able to count these because the 'activation' of Kindle Fire would not go through Google at all. In fact Amazon, as usual, will keep their sales secret.
Other folks (surveys) will try to count them but won't be accurate because as I mentioned, Amazon won't publish sales figure.
I don't know. Silk's browser share would be a pretty decent indication of how many people have (and use) the devices.
Not terribly accurate, sure, but not a bad indication, either.
...with a computer.
I got mine via FedEx.
Not everyone shops at the Apple store.
Unless you have a computer available, and are among the minority of computers users that have iTunes installed, the iPad arrives as a brick.
That point is moot. The Amazon 7" mini tablet is not available right now, and by the time it is, iOS 5 will be out, so you really have no point.
like their cloud business that is soon going to host iCloud for apple
AppleInsider Forum Rule #48:
If an analyst says anything that can in any way be seen as detrimental to Apple, every syllable he speaks must be dissected for hidden meanings until his statements are parsed into oblivion.
But if an analyst says something that may be seen as advantageous to Apple, it must not be questioned in any way at all, no matter how specious or ridiculous it may be.
Do you have a point?
Thatcher: "Mr. Kane, the paper just lost a million dollars. A million dollars! We can''t go on like this!"
Kane: "You're right, Mr. Thatcher, we did just lose a million dollars. We lost a million dollars last year too, and next year we'll probably lose another million dollars. Why, at that rate we'll need to close the paper...in sixty years."
That is cute. But most companies don't run their cash down like that except for Microsoft. And Amazon is already run close to the edge. In addition, public companies can't do what private ones can, and their earnings are down about 25% this year already. And that from that measly 3.37% ($1.2 billion) last year on sales of $34 billion.
really doesn't matter if amazon loses money. .....
Can I be your broker?