I never said there is a "perfectly green" method of doing anything!
If you lot were a quarter way smart you could read!
Really? What does this sentence you wrote mean, other than being a strawman: "Whatever way you look at it, it is NOT a green source or storage of energy."
What, pray, is a "green source or storage of energy"?
Really? What does this sentence you wrote mean, other than being a strawman: "Whatever way you look at it, it is NOT a green source or storage of energy."
What, pray, is a "green source or storage of energy"?
At least try and quote me properly the second time round..
Aww I think some of you have been drinking too much green coolaid.
The story makes it sound as if they're trying to patent a theory. You "could" do this... You "could" do that.... Don't you even have to build a prototype to show there is really potential?
Yes, but the production of hydrogen adds another often unnecessary step in the chain.
Fossil fuel->electricity->hydrogen->electricity more than often the case.
Hydrogen just irritates me because the green brigade often forget to mention the original source of energy that produces the hydrogen.
We're talking about powering laptops and mobile devices, not homes cars and factories. The load on the electric grid is fairly insignificant. What percentage of your monthly kWh consumption goes towards recharging mobile devices? Unless you're living like a monk otherwise, it's a trifle even compared to lighting, much less heating/cooling/cooking/appliances.
If we're talking about powering electric vehicles via fuel cells then I agree, fuel cells are problematic unless you're already producing clean energy at the start of the chain. On the other hand, the efficiency of electric motors and of generating plants is such that the pollution per mile traveled can be less than gasoline, all factors taken into account, including transmission and conversion losses. I know this applies to battery-electric vehicles. I haven't studied the fuel cell proposition. The big problem with fuel cells in this application is that they are a lure to continue relying on fossil fuels; manufacturing the hydrogen or methanol from cracking petroleum or using food crops, for example.
I never said it was " always going to be the initial source" please don't put words in my mouth. And 30% well thats great.. so where does the rest come from?.
The point is surely that 100% wasn't green now 70% isn't green. That is a massive step in the right direction while the USA hardly even tries. The EEC had a target of 30% green by 2020 and Germany got there already and beyond. In a few more years they could be well on the way to amazing levels. Plus zero need for nuclear . You really should check out the book I mentioned. The thing is we the people could be making a lot of our own power instead of buying it and even selling excess back to the grid. Guess who stops this in the USA?
I always thought hydrogen was rather explosive. I wouldn't want my phone exploding.
I know you are not talking about cars, but in answer to the usual fear tactics about hydrogen I always say I'd rather have a leaking hydrogen tank under me than a gasoline one At least unlit, it floats up!
I know you are not talking about cars, but in answer to the usual fear tactics about hydrogen I always say I'd rather have a leaking hydrogen tank under me than a gasoline one At least unlit, it floats up!
Hydrogen spontaneously combusts with the oxygen in the atmosphere. You'd blow up immediately instead of potentially with gasoline.
Hydrogen spontaneously combusts with the oxygen in the atmosphere. You'd blow up immediately instead of potentially with gasoline.
Hydrogen does not spontaneously combust. Check out any of the "HOH" videos on youtube, to see containers of water happily bubbling into hydrogen and oxygen in free air. Hydrogen/oxygen mixture requires an ignition source to combust, like like gasoline/oxygen.
I find it humorous that you fail to get my point. I SAID "THATS GREAT"!!!!!! I was not being sarcastic.
My beef is with hydrogen "H - Y - D - R - O - G - E -N"!!!
hahaha
Those of us who disagree with your diatribes understand perfectly well that you have a beef with hydrogen. We also know how to spell.
As for those who are concerned about the spontaneous combustion of hydrogen, don't be. Oily rags wadded-up and thrown in the corner of a garage will spontaneously combust after time. Hydrogen will not. Free hydrogen will rise above the atmosphere and dissipate into the interstellar medium. If presented with an ignition source near a leak, hydrogen quickly rises above the fire. This is much unlike gasoline which streams along the ground or floats on water while burning.
The notion that batteries are safer than fuel cells is an argument made only by those who know nothing about batteries. We abandoned nickel-cadmium (Ni-Cad) batteries because they suffered memory issues. They may also explode if overcharged. Other battery technologies also have issues. Many of us remember with fondness the pictures of the Dell laptop battery fire. We don't like to recall pictures of mobile Apple products suffering battery fires.
Comments
I never said there is a "perfectly green" method of doing anything!
If you lot were a quarter way smart you could read!
Really? What does this sentence you wrote mean, other than being a strawman: "Whatever way you look at it, it is NOT a green source or storage of energy."
What, pray, is a "green source or storage of energy"?
I find it humorous that you minimize the impact of a 30% impact on non-carbon source of energy on the energy economy.
I find it humorous that you fail to get my point. I SAID "THATS GREAT"!!!!!! I was not being sarcastic.
My beef is with hydrogen "H - Y - D - R - O - G - E -N"!!!
hahaha
Really? What does this sentence you wrote mean, other than being a strawman: "Whatever way you look at it, it is NOT a green source or storage of energy."
What, pray, is a "green source or storage of energy"?
At least try and quote me properly the second time round..
Aww I think some of you have been drinking too much green coolaid.
I no longer wish to play your silly games,bye.
At least try and quote me properly the second time round..
Aww I think some of you have been drinking too much green coolaid.
I no longer wish to play your silly games,bye.
Goodbye!
.....Hydrogen just irritates me because the green brigade often forget to mention the original source of energy that produces the hydrogen.
The sun.
"it's just a natural byproduct of your inanne questions, which have put addional load on the fuel cells."
The sun.
The sun turns hydrogen into helium, so it doesn't really produce hydrogen?
The sun turns hydrogen into helium, so it doesn't really produce hydrogen?
That's right, and after the hydrogen's all gone the sun will start eating all the helium. Once that's gone it'll be coming for us! FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU...
Yes, but the production of hydrogen adds another often unnecessary step in the chain.
Fossil fuel->electricity->hydrogen->electricity more than often the case.
Hydrogen just irritates me because the green brigade often forget to mention the original source of energy that produces the hydrogen.
We're talking about powering laptops and mobile devices, not homes cars and factories. The load on the electric grid is fairly insignificant. What percentage of your monthly kWh consumption goes towards recharging mobile devices? Unless you're living like a monk otherwise, it's a trifle even compared to lighting, much less heating/cooling/cooking/appliances.
If we're talking about powering electric vehicles via fuel cells then I agree, fuel cells are problematic unless you're already producing clean energy at the start of the chain. On the other hand, the efficiency of electric motors and of generating plants is such that the pollution per mile traveled can be less than gasoline, all factors taken into account, including transmission and conversion losses. I know this applies to battery-electric vehicles. I haven't studied the fuel cell proposition. The big problem with fuel cells in this application is that they are a lure to continue relying on fossil fuels; manufacturing the hydrogen or methanol from cracking petroleum or using food crops, for example.
I never said it was " always going to be the initial source" please don't put words in my mouth. And 30% well thats great.. so where does the rest come from?.
The point is surely that 100% wasn't green now 70% isn't green. That is a massive step in the right direction while the USA hardly even tries. The EEC had a target of 30% green by 2020 and Germany got there already and beyond. In a few more years they could be well on the way to amazing levels. Plus zero need for nuclear . You really should check out the book I mentioned. The thing is we the people could be making a lot of our own power instead of buying it and even selling excess back to the grid. Guess who stops this in the USA?
I always thought hydrogen was rather explosive. I wouldn't want my phone exploding.
I know you are not talking about cars, but in answer to the usual fear tactics about hydrogen I always say I'd rather have a leaking hydrogen tank under me than a gasoline one
I know you are not talking about cars, but in answer to the usual fear tactics about hydrogen I always say I'd rather have a leaking hydrogen tank under me than a gasoline one
Hydrogen spontaneously combusts with the oxygen in the atmosphere. You'd blow up immediately instead of potentially with gasoline.
Hydrogen spontaneously combusts with the oxygen in the atmosphere. You'd blow up immediately instead of potentially with gasoline.
Hydrogen does not spontaneously combust. Check out any of the "HOH" videos on youtube, to see containers of water happily bubbling into hydrogen and oxygen in free air. Hydrogen/oxygen mixture requires an ignition source to combust, like like gasoline/oxygen.
I find it humorous that you fail to get my point. I SAID "THATS GREAT"!!!!!! I was not being sarcastic.
My beef is with hydrogen "H - Y - D - R - O - G - E -N"!!!
hahaha
Those of us who disagree with your diatribes understand perfectly well that you have a beef with hydrogen. We also know how to spell.
As for those who are concerned about the spontaneous combustion of hydrogen, don't be. Oily rags wadded-up and thrown in the corner of a garage will spontaneously combust after time. Hydrogen will not. Free hydrogen will rise above the atmosphere and dissipate into the interstellar medium. If presented with an ignition source near a leak, hydrogen quickly rises above the fire. This is much unlike gasoline which streams along the ground or floats on water while burning.
The notion that batteries are safer than fuel cells is an argument made only by those who know nothing about batteries. We abandoned nickel-cadmium (Ni-Cad) batteries because they suffered memory issues. They may also explode if overcharged. Other battery technologies also have issues. Many of us remember with fondness the pictures of the Dell laptop battery fire. We don't like to recall pictures of mobile Apple products suffering battery fires.
http://colossalstorage.net/API