I have no qualms about going so far as to say that it is a lousy keyboard, because it could not be more manifest to me that it is a lousy keyboard. Your mother is an exception. This is a silly debate. Do a web search for "typing championship", look for some youtube videos and look at the sort of keyboards that are using. If you were to conduct a survey of professional typists, you would possibly find a few who actually like the slab keyboard, but there can be no question that they would be a very small minority.
It seems to me that "professional typists" comprise a very small minority of Mac users...
...and just as professional graphics artists or photo editors who may find Apple monitors wanting have other options, so there are also other keyboard choices for they who so wish...
...we could even take a detour into the rationale behind the QWERTY layout...
The whole point of Apple's path under Steve Jobs seems to have been to make the user's experience better and the point to that seems to be to get the machine out of the user's way, making the translation of ideas into finished " products" as simple as possible. In many cases, that involves the translation of thoughts expressed as words, phrases, and sentences formed in the mind somehow into binary code in electromagnetic storage...I'm certain that Steve Jobs must have been frustrated by that problem--there must be a better way than finger tapping on a keyboard layout designed specifically to slow down the operator.
The point is that Steve Jobs likely saw the keyboard as a necessary evil and something which would ultimately go away...so why waste effort in perfecting the device...rather create one that functions more than well enough for the majority while fitting into the minimalist form of the remainder of the product lines?
Why else was Siri considered such a game changer...? The keyboard is arguably one of the weaker points of the iPhone...so instead of trying to make the keyboard better, the Apple answer is to develop a way to get rid of it...a way that "simply works".
You comment reduces in effect to this: Every aspect of physical design is subjective, therefore it is not possible to criticize any of the designs on an objective basis.
You have the objective v subjective aspects backward. Physical aspects of design (such as long or short key throw) are objective, but preference for one or the other is subjective. I strongly prefer short key throw. I even prefer the shorter throw on the Air keyboard to the somewhat longer throw on the MacBook Pro or external keyboards.
The fact that I find the long throw of those oldschool keyboards that you prefer slow, clumsy and somewhat anachronistic doesn't negate your preference for them (I don't mind shallow scallops, btw).
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaiser_soze
You might also claim that keystrokes so short as to be barely perceptible are not inferior to keystrokes that measure up to some threshold that is difficult to pin down but still quite real. It does not logically follow, from the fact that it is difficult to say with objectivity what that threshold should be, that there is no objective truth to the general consensus that keyboards with very short travel, such as the keyboards that are typical of notebook computers, are inferior for that reason to keyboards with longer travel. Your challenge was disingenuous. I don't need to go and survey a bunch of professional typists just to produce an answer that is already manifest to people with good sense.
What consensus? The better notebook reviews are quite favourable wrt Apple's keyboards: no flex, fast, light action, quiet, durable, etc. It's easy to understand that they may not be the best design for all use cases, certainly they're not for traditionalists.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaiser_soze
People who don't want those manifestly cheap, inferior, junky keyboards ought not under any circumstances find it necessary to go buy an aftermarket keyboard.
This is where you veer into the subjective. There's no evidence that the keyboards in question are cheap or junky. They would be inferior if you prefer long-travel scalloped keys in bleacher rows, but inferiority/superiority in this case is based on a personal typing preference, not on all use cases. Personally, I really disliked the previous series of Apple keyboards that had all the characteristics that you appear to like.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaiser_soze
They should have continued to make the sort of keyboard that conventionally and broadly is regarded as a keyboard of the sort that professional typists prefer, and they should have made that keyboard an optional choice for people who prefer that sort of keyboard.
If your preferences are so strong, it's hard to believe that buying a keyboard that you prefer is such an onerous chore. They don't cost much, and they last a fair time.
Comments
I have no qualms about going so far as to say that it is a lousy keyboard, because it could not be more manifest to me that it is a lousy keyboard. Your mother is an exception. This is a silly debate. Do a web search for "typing championship", look for some youtube videos and look at the sort of keyboards that are using. If you were to conduct a survey of professional typists, you would possibly find a few who actually like the slab keyboard, but there can be no question that they would be a very small minority.
It seems to me that "professional typists" comprise a very small minority of Mac users...
...and just as professional graphics artists or photo editors who may find Apple monitors wanting have other options, so there are also other keyboard choices for they who so wish...
...we could even take a detour into the rationale behind the QWERTY layout...
The whole point of Apple's path under Steve Jobs seems to have been to make the user's experience better and the point to that seems to be to get the machine out of the user's way, making the translation of ideas into finished " products" as simple as possible. In many cases, that involves the translation of thoughts expressed as words, phrases, and sentences formed in the mind somehow into binary code in electromagnetic storage...I'm certain that Steve Jobs must have been frustrated by that problem--there must be a better way than finger tapping on a keyboard layout designed specifically to slow down the operator.
The point is that Steve Jobs likely saw the keyboard as a necessary evil and something which would ultimately go away...so why waste effort in perfecting the device...rather create one that functions more than well enough for the majority while fitting into the minimalist form of the remainder of the product lines?
Why else was Siri considered such a game changer...? The keyboard is arguably one of the weaker points of the iPhone...so instead of trying to make the keyboard better, the Apple answer is to develop a way to get rid of it...a way that "simply works".
You comment reduces in effect to this: Every aspect of physical design is subjective, therefore it is not possible to criticize any of the designs on an objective basis.
You have the objective v subjective aspects backward. Physical aspects of design (such as long or short key throw) are objective, but preference for one or the other is subjective. I strongly prefer short key throw. I even prefer the shorter throw on the Air keyboard to the somewhat longer throw on the MacBook Pro or external keyboards.
The fact that I find the long throw of those oldschool keyboards that you prefer slow, clumsy and somewhat anachronistic doesn't negate your preference for them (I don't mind shallow scallops, btw).
You might also claim that keystrokes so short as to be barely perceptible are not inferior to keystrokes that measure up to some threshold that is difficult to pin down but still quite real. It does not logically follow, from the fact that it is difficult to say with objectivity what that threshold should be, that there is no objective truth to the general consensus that keyboards with very short travel, such as the keyboards that are typical of notebook computers, are inferior for that reason to keyboards with longer travel. Your challenge was disingenuous. I don't need to go and survey a bunch of professional typists just to produce an answer that is already manifest to people with good sense.
What consensus? The better notebook reviews are quite favourable wrt Apple's keyboards: no flex, fast, light action, quiet, durable, etc. It's easy to understand that they may not be the best design for all use cases, certainly they're not for traditionalists.
People who don't want those manifestly cheap, inferior, junky keyboards ought not under any circumstances find it necessary to go buy an aftermarket keyboard.
This is where you veer into the subjective. There's no evidence that the keyboards in question are cheap or junky. They would be inferior if you prefer long-travel scalloped keys in bleacher rows, but inferiority/superiority in this case is based on a personal typing preference, not on all use cases. Personally, I really disliked the previous series of Apple keyboards that had all the characteristics that you appear to like.
They should have continued to make the sort of keyboard that conventionally and broadly is regarded as a keyboard of the sort that professional typists prefer, and they should have made that keyboard an optional choice for people who prefer that sort of keyboard.
If your preferences are so strong, it's hard to believe that buying a keyboard that you prefer is such an onerous chore. They don't cost much, and they last a fair time.