Despite new CPU options, Apple reportedly questioning future of Mac Pro

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  • Reply 581 of 649
    snoopysnoopy Posts: 1,901member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MacTac View Post




    I am very close to giving up and switching to Windows.



    Seriously, have you considered a used Mac Pro? The only drawback might be its size. You say that your requirement is internal devices. The Pro has four drive bays and is extremely easy to open without using any tools. In that regard, it's likely better than moderately priced Windows PCs. I gave up on Apple ever making a consumer tower, and bought a five year old Mac Pro. It is great, and silent too. The loudest sound is the hard drive. It came with Airport Extreme and Bluetooth built-in and 8 GB of RAM, all for $850 on Craigslist. I did have to wait about 3 months for the right Mac Pro to show up on their website.
  • Reply 582 of 649
    mactacmactac Posts: 315member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by snoopy View Post


    Seriously, have you considered a used Mac Pro? The only drawback might be its size. You say that your requirement is internal devices. The Pro has four drive bays and is extremely easy to open without using any tools. In that regard, it's likely better than moderately priced Windows PCs. I gave up on Apple ever making a consumer tower, and bought a five year old Mac Pro. It is great, and silent too. The loudest sound is the hard drive. It came with Airport Extreme and Bluetooth built-in and 8 GB of RAM, all for $850 on Craigslist. I did have to wait about 3 months for the right Mac Pro to show up on their website.



    I have thought about a used Mac Pro but yes size is an issue. Also used is already setting you back technology wise. Mainly I just want a desktop computer that has room for 2 hard drives and an optical drive that doesn't force me to use a built in screen. I like internal devices because it is simply a neater arrangement. To me there is nothing worse than having external devices all over the place.



    That is something I haven't been able to understand about Apple. Apple goes far and above in designing good looking cases but then offers no consumer mini tower. So people are forced into using external devices that mess up the look of that great looking Apple product.



    If the mini had been made taller to fit three drives I would be a happy camper. As it is for my needs the newest mini has been neutered by forcing people to an external optical drive. Taller with an optional optical drive for those that need it like me and for those that don't would an extra 1.5 inches in height on a desktop computer been that horrible to deal with?



    There is a reason you don't see cars with the spare tire mounted on the fender or trunk anymore. It is a neater and cleaner arrangement having it mounted inside the trunk. I just want my drives mounted in the trunk instead of externally on the fender or trunk lid.
  • Reply 583 of 649
    z3r0z3r0 Posts: 230member
    I'd actually be happier with a bigger Mac Pro. Some high end video cards take up two slots. Throw in a capture card that takes up two more slots and a RAID card and there isn't room for another high end video card.



    I'd like to have 2 high end video cards (thats 4 slots), a RAID card ( 1 slot), a capture card (2 slots) and a Fiber card (1 slot). Thats 8 PCI-X slots.



    Dual optical drives are a must a long with at least 4 internal hard drives.



    Obviously a larger Mac Pro would be needed for additional space for the slots, cooling/fans, power etc...



    Maybe theres a spot for a mini Mac Pro but, as long as theres a bigger option available. Apple doesn't have to kill production of one to have the other.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MacTac View Post


    I have thought about a used Mac Pro but yes size is an issue. Also used is already setting you back technology wise. Mainly I just want a desktop computer that has room for 2 hard drives and an optical drive that doesn't force me to use a built in screen. I like internal devices because it is simply a neater arrangement. To me there is nothing worse than having external devices all over the place.



    That is something I haven't been able to understand about Apple. Apple goes far and above in designing good looking cases but then offers no consumer mini tower. So people are forced into using external devices that mess up the look of that great looking Apple product.



    If the mini had been made taller to fit three drives I would be a happy camper. As it is for my needs the newest mini has been neutered by forcing people to an external optical drive. Taller with an optional optical drive for those that need it like me and for those that don't would an extra 1.5 inches in height on a desktop computer been that horrible to deal with?



    There is a reason you don't see cars with the spare tire mounted on the fender or trunk anymore. It is a neater and cleaner arrangement having it mounted inside the trunk. I just want my drives mounted in the trunk instead of externally on the fender or trunk lid.



  • Reply 584 of 649
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MacTac View Post


    If the mini had been made taller to fit three drives I would be a happy camper. As it is for my needs the newest mini has been neutered by forcing people to an external optical drive. Taller with an optional optical drive for those that need it like me and for those that don't would an extra 1.5 inches in height on a desktop computer been that horrible to deal with?



    Not me. It isn't just the number of mini drives, it is the type. They are laptop drives. They are slower, lower capacity, and more expensive. They are a brain dead choice for a desktop machine. The mini is essentially a laptop without a screen, batteries, or keyboard. It is hopeless.



    The mini is desktop equivalent of the netbook computer (the piece of crap Apple wouldn't build for mobile).



    The mini is a nettop. An underpowered little box for internet surfing.
  • Reply 585 of 649
    mcarlingmcarling Posts: 1,106member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Snowdog65 View Post


    Not me. It isn't just the number of mini drives, it is the type. They are laptop drives. They are slower, lower capacity, and more expensive. They are a brain dead choice for a desktop machine. The mini is essentially a laptop without a screen, batteries, or keyboard. It is hopeless.



    The mini is desktop equivalent of the netbook computer (the piece of crap Apple wouldn't build for mobile).



    The mini is a nettop. An underpowered little box for internet surfing.



    The 2011 Mac Mini is dramatically faster than the Cray I used to use.
  • Reply 586 of 649
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mcarling View Post


    The 2011 Mac Mini is dramatically faster than the Cray I used to use.



    So is a cellphone (5000 MIPS to a Crays 160 MIPS), but I don't want to use that as a modern desktop computer either.



    The point stands, the mini is a low end laptop without a screen, Keyboard or batteries. It is the netbook of computers (AKA nettop).
  • Reply 587 of 649
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 12,831member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Snowdog65 View Post


    So is a cellphone (5000 MIPS to a Crays 160 MIPS), but I don't want to use that as a modern desktop computer either.



    The point stands, the mini is a low end laptop without a screen, Keyboard or batteries. It is the netbook of computers (AKA nettop).



    The Mini transforms dramatically with SSD. I really don't have a problem with the Mini as it certainly serves a need. However it isn't the machine for me and what is worst Apple really doesn't have a desktop I'd want. That is a big frustration.



    I've mentioned before but if they put the same engineering effort they put in the AIR they would produce one awesome XMac. It is also frustrating that Apple's MBPs are more serviceable than the Mini. It is like Apple isn't trying.
  • Reply 588 of 649
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 12,831member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Snowdog65 View Post


    Not me. It isn't just the number of mini drives, it is the type. They are laptop drives. They are slower, lower capacity, and more expensive. They are a brain dead choice for a desktop machine. The mini is essentially a laptop without a screen, batteries, or keyboard. It is hopeless.



    Stuff the machine with a SSD then. That will dramatically alter the Minis performance. The Mini isn't hopeless but it is extremely low end. That means not for everybody.

    Quote:

    The mini is desktop equivalent of the netbook computer (the piece of crap Apple wouldn't build for mobile).



    The mini is a nettop. An underpowered little box for internet surfing.



    Well that isn't correct either. It may be Apples poorest performing computer but that is only relative. Right now I can't see myself buying one, but a quad core Ivy Bridge might change my mind as would a GPU with a decent amount of Video RAM.



    The trend in the industry is pretty clear though. In the near future computers of all types will be compressed into very small boards. These boards will contain very dense high speed RAM and other components built 3D.
  • Reply 589 of 649
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post


    Right now I can't see myself buying one, but a quad core Ivy Bridge might change my mind as would a GPU with a decent amount of Video RAM.



    IVY will help the graphics but it a small tweak on the CPU front and mobile Ivy of the mini class will still be dual core.



    There is niche for the Mini, just as there is a niche for other nettops, but it isn't the midrange headless desktop Apple should have, it falls short in so many areas, it really can't be addressed.



    You can add an SSD to mini and get some nice HD performance but what of capacity. I have 4TB in my desktop, which is nice for HTPC usage. If I want a streaming box I could get one for $99 or less. I want a HTPC with lots of storage.



    The only way I will buy a headless Mac is if it has room for at least 2 desktop HDs, quad core desktop CPU, and either very good integrated graphics (at least as good as my 8800GT) or a PCI slot to add my own. Which likely means never.
  • Reply 590 of 649
    mactacmactac Posts: 315member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Snowdog65 View Post


    Not me. It isn't just the number of mini drives, it is the type. They are laptop drives. They are slower, lower capacity, and more expensive. They are a brain dead choice for a desktop machine. The mini is essentially a laptop without a screen, batteries, or keyboard. It is hopeless.



    The mini is desktop equivalent of the netbook computer (the piece of crap Apple wouldn't build for mobile).



    The mini is a nettop. An underpowered little box for internet surfing.



    I actually agree with you but I didn't want to get greedy. I would love a real consumer desktop from Apple. One that didn't use laptop parts. But I seriously doubt Apple will ever give us all of what we want.



    I do have that scratch off ticket still sitting on my dresser. Maybe it is a $3000 winner and I'll get a Mac Pro.
  • Reply 591 of 649
    mcarlingmcarling Posts: 1,106member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Snowdog65 View Post


    IVY will help the graphics but it a small tweak on the CPU front and mobile Ivy of the mini class will still be dual core.



    No, the Ivy Bridge Mac Minis will be quad-core.
  • Reply 592 of 649
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mcarling View Post


    No, the Ivy Bridge Mac Minis will be quad-core.



    You work at Apple do you? It seems very likely Minis will still use low end Mobile Ivy, just like it uses low end Sandy.
  • Reply 593 of 649
    hmmhmm Posts: 3,405member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mcarling View Post


    No, the Ivy Bridge Mac Minis will be quad-core.



    Ivy bridge "may" get power just within the range that would allow quad chips to work in the mini enclosure. The lower end ones remain dual core chips, and on the low end, tdp isn't changing much. These are more expensive parts than desktop chips, so I'm not really sure we'll see Apple use such parts as it may not work with their required margins.



    Also popular opinion =/= fact.
  • Reply 594 of 649
    winterwinter Posts: 1,238member
    Lies. The 2012 Mini will be 16 cores.
  • Reply 595 of 649
    Well, well...



    ...looks like a 'leak' from Apple P.R prepping us for a 'dinosaur-less' future.



    Pity (always liked the Mac Pro...) ? A little...but not so much.



    It's been on the cards for some time.



    Apple's moving mainstream whether die hards like it or not.



    iMac. iPods. iPhones. iPads...



    All plenty powerful for the mainstream consumer whether for Image or Word Processing, Emailing, video work.



    The tower's had this coming for some time. It's 'huuuuuge' design, it's even 'huuuuuuuuuuug-er' price tag and it's even 'huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuug-er' out of date gpus have made it the province of a Mac/creative pro/elite in denial.



    Top end iMac 27 inch vs the entry level crap (sorry, 'Quad') core Tower? No competition. One is overblown and a sucktackler irrelevance and the other is actually selling.



    Apple aren't Apple computer any longer. They're Apple. That happened some time ago.



    We're in the post pc era. That means no big, ugly (or even big 'pretty') boxes with lots of wires.



    We're done with Power PC. We're done with towers. We're done with 'gas guzzlers'...it's small, elegant, it's portable...it's bang for buck in power vs power consumption.



    I'm sure they'll sell the tower for another year or so. Then there's ebay for people who want to nerd away with...uhm...well...whatever it is you're putting in there (but it won't be new improved gpus with any regularity... :/ )



    The tower? This parties over.



    The iMac will carry the 'mid tower' x-Mac desk top torch (and is currently doing so...) for the forseeable future. If you aren't demanding, stick an SD powered mini to a monitor of your choice.



    If that that doesn't excite you, there's lots of luvly Apple laptops and a terrific iPad 3 (retina rocks!) around the corner.



    I guess there's a fading hope that Apple may nix the overblown tower and give us a double mini whopper (with a cheese side order) ala Cube style replacement. I could vaguely see that happening with Thunderbolt helping with the expansion.



    But the increasingly 'epic' gaps between Tower updates suggests the writing is on the wall.



    Lemon Bon Bon.
  • Reply 596 of 649
    As an aside, I bought my Mum the 2001 'hello moto' Power PC 'plastic' tower. 450 mhz. Wow. Seemed so fast in the day. Now? It's a turtle. I bought it for her a year and half a go. It was her first Mac. She has a 'computer.' A Mac.



    Compared to the latter day Mini? It's a huge piece of slow junk. So much for the much lauded 'altivec' engine, eh?



    Even the iPad can beat the snot out of it...



    Time has a way of making us all irrelevant. Especially the 'Pro.'



    Lemon Bon Bon.
  • Reply 597 of 649
    hmmhmm Posts: 3,405member
    ^^^^^ I think you're trolling given that the other OEMS have a lot of aging hardware in their lineups as well at the moment. This whole thread / article is pure speculation. They just tried to make it sound legitimate. Anyway I've been testing on Windows 7, and if I can't find one of the Macs that works for me with the next refresh, I'll just move to a PC. Their current OS hasn't been that problematic and if you're at a budget level even approaching mac pro territory, you can buy a very nice one.
  • Reply 598 of 649
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 12,831member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Snowdog65 View Post


    IVY will help the graphics but it a small tweak on the CPU front and mobile Ivy of the mini class will still be dual core.



    I'm getting mixed messages on Ivy Bridge performance both CPU and GPU so a wait and see approach seems to be reasonable.

    Quote:

    There is niche for the Mini, just as there is a niche for other nettops, but it isn't the midrange headless desktop Apple should have, it falls short in so many areas, it really can't be addressed.



    It falls short for a range of users and uses, that doesn't mean there isn't a significant demand for the machine. In the end all machines have their niches, it is just that those niches vary in size.

    Quote:

    You can add an SSD to mini and get some nice HD performance but what of capacity. I have 4TB in my desktop, which is nice for HTPC usage. If I want a streaming box I could get one for $99 or less. I want a HTPC with lots of storage.



    Believe me I understand this 100%, if you have followed my postings you will see I'm a big advocate of an XMac. My point though is that right now the Mini is the only thing Apple has on the desktop. It isn't perfect but it isn't a bad compact desktop platform.



    That has nothing to do with the need for the XMac though as the platforms would server entirely different needs.

    Quote:

    The only way I will buy a headless Mac is if it has room for at least 2 desktop HDs, quad core desktop CPU, and either very good integrated graphics (at least as good as my 8800GT) or a PCI slot to add my own. Which likely means never.



    While my needs are slightly different, what you describe above would be an Ivy Bridge Mini. Well it will be if they can get a quad core into the platform.



    As a side note I think it is very important to go with quad cores in new computer purchases. If for nothing else it will keep the machine viable for a bit longer. As to desktop/laptop chip that is harder to categorize as intel pushes power profiles lower and lower. It is better to expect a given amount of performance improvement over today's hardware.
  • Reply 599 of 649
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 12,831member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Lemon Bon Bon. View Post


    As an aside, I bought my Mum the 2001 'hello moto' Power PC 'plastic' tower. 450 mhz. Wow. Seemed so fast in the day. Now? It's a turtle. I bought it for her a year and half a go. It was her first Mac. She has a 'computer.' A Mac.



    At least she is using a computer! So many older folks avoid them, it is kinda sad really.

    Quote:

    Compared to the latter day Mini? It's a huge piece of slow junk. So much for the much lauded 'altivec' engine, eh?



    The reality distortion field was in full effect when it came to marketing PPC. What is funny is that Apples own published numbers indicated that PPC had absolutely terrible integer performance relative to Intel hardware of the day. Integer performance is extremely important to operating system performance.



    Basically by focusing on AltiVec, Apple pulled the wool over the heads of many of its users.

    Quote:

    Even the iPad can beat the snot out of it...



    I'm at times shocked by what the iPad can do, the iPhone too for that matter. It is all the more shocking that the graphics systems in these devices outperform most of the computers I've ever owned.

    Quote:

    Time has a way of making us all irrelevant. Especially the 'Pro.'



    Lemon Bon Bon.



    Well I don't think time will ever erase the need for bleeding edge performance. That need won't be with the same groups that are now migrating their workloads to iMacs and Minis. The problem is though that Apple doesn't seem to care about this high performance computing market.
  • Reply 600 of 649
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Lemon Bon Bon. View Post


    Time has a way of making us all irrelevant. Especially the 'Pro.'



    Lemon Bon Bon.



    Elegy of elegies. All is elegy.



    -Book of Lemony Bon Temps Elegy
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