This is ridiculous. Suppose I had my own home server and devised a way to listen to it on any of my devices anywhere. What's the difference? The same person who bought the music is the person listening to it. Why does the music industry have a say about any of this?
Yes, I have a good solid internet connection. Using Time Warner Cable Roadrunner High Speed which has been rock solid for years. The only time I ever have an issue with the connection is when the power goes out (which is rare).
We only have two laptop between us, and two iPhones, so it's not like we're pinging the internet constantly. Especially when we're asleep.
Let me add, if I initiate a manual backup, it completes in less than a minute (backup is only 211MB according to iCloud). So it's not like the backup would be bombarding my wireless connection.
Just ran the same on mine, took a minute. Seems to be an incremental backup, which makes sense. No idea why yours is failing at night
And who wants to bet every other news blog will be reporting this story as "Apple pulls Amazon Cloud music player" and spin it as an anticompetitive move?
I'll take that bet.
You want the pixie styx, the circus peanuts or the tootsie roll pops.
Given that this app apparently makes your Amazon cloud files appear inside your music player it is also possible that the 'legal reasons' is actually false and it as yanked for using private APIs to make that appearance work.
Or it could be APIs and something related to the deals Amazon has with the labels. Just because they haven't reveled any doesn't mean they don't have any kind of arrangement. Or might be working on one that they feel this app would risk. Or perhaps they just don't like the app and they are playing the "we didn't give him permission to use our APIs" game. Apple would respect such claims given that they are also partners with Amazon via using the One Click patents.
Are you guys going to talk about the fact that Apple missed the launch date for iTunes Match today?
Who cares? Its obviously not done.
Quote:
Originally Posted by S8ER01Z
Amazing... you can buy music you just can't listen to it when you want or anywhere you want on any device you want. I wish the music industry would just die like the big dumb dinosaur it is.
Actually no you don't, because most of the artists you love are actually pretty sleazy people who side with their labels instead of Apple.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazda 3s
Well for me, iCloud backup has been spotty at best on my iPhone 4. It's supposed to backup whenever the phone is plugged in, locked, and connected to WiFi. But it rarely ever syncs automatically.
Sometimes I go into iCloud settings and the latest backup is from two days ago even though my phone is plugged in to the wall at home at least twice in the mornings and all night long on my nightstand.
It works all the time, if nothing changes then it doesn't back up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by minderbinder
Look at the apple boards, tons of issues. Duplicate contacts and calendar events, things disappearing and not syncing (including lost documents in the cloud). Issues converting mobileme accounts. I'm sure it's working fine for some people but this bun could have used a bit more time in the oven, shame it was rushed to match up with the iPhone release.
There was no "rush". I moved my MobileMe account over months ago. Everything works fine. Those "duplicate" issues are user-created and have been around since the dawn of calendars and address books. They just inevitably pop up with the release of any new device and any new service.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazda 3s
Yes, I have a good solid internet connection. Using Time Warner Cable Roadrunner High Speed which has been rock solid for years. The only time I ever have an issue with the connection is when the power goes out (which is rare).
We only have two laptop between us, and two iPhones, so it's not like we're pinging the internet constantly. Especially when we're asleep.
Let me add, if I initiate a manual backup, it completes in less than a minute (backup is only 211MB according to iCloud). So it's not like the backup would be bombarding my wireless connection.
Again the back up is incremental, something has to actually change in order to qualify running a new backup.
Quote:
Originally Posted by irnchriz
Just ran the same on mine, took a minute. Seems to be an incremental backup, which makes sense. No idea why yours is failing at night
He's right, at the iPhone 5 launch event they announced "end of october" for Match.
Bit of a fuzzy launch date. And when they release it in two days no one will remember that Apple missed the date. They'll be too busy griping about how they can't connect etc because everyone in the US shockingly decided to sign up for the service in the first hour of launch day even though the service is lame blah blah.
This is ridiculous. Suppose I had my own home server and devised a way to listen to it on any of my devices anywhere. What's the difference? The same person who bought the music is the person listening to it. Why does the music industry have a say about any of this?
Because YOU didn't. Someone else did, and that someone else had a target painted on them, and the trigger pulled.
because most of the artists you love are actually pretty sleazy people who side with their labels instead of Apple..
You mean that most of the artists folks love are signed with labels that don't give them a say in such rules and the labels hate these sorts of services cause they think it is going to bring back what fraction of piracy has gone away.
Or they believe as Pete Townsend does that we should have to pay a fee every time we listen to a song a la the way that commercials have to pay a usage fee to Pete for using a Who track in their ad.
So instead of buying music from amazon, storing it in their cloud, then playing it on iOS, the labels want me to, what? Buy it on iTunes? Buy a CD then sync? Buy a computer and sit there to listen?
This makes no sense. Are they thinking that people are uploading songs they've pirated to amazon cloud, and so trying to block people from playing them? Then why don't they just block amazon cloud completely, if it's illegal?
If the songs on amazon cloud are legal, then it should not matter what device plays them. Unless the labels are intentionally trying to get you to re-buy your music if you want to play it on more then one device.
Bit of a fuzzy launch date. And when they release it in two days no one will remember that Apple missed the date. They'll be too busy griping about how they can't connect etc because everyone in the US shockingly decided to sign up for the service in the first hour of launch day even though the service is lame blah blah.
Nothing irritates me more when the blogosphere rips apart a new Apple service, them bombards their servers on launch day trying to sign up.
edit: shit, didn't really think about how much data is uploading until now. I must be clocking 10+ GB to iCloud overnight.
I'm guessing like most intelligent backups, it doesn't do a *full* backup every time; instead, only changes are uploaded. That's how DropBox works at least. I'm pretty sure that's how Lion (and Time Machine) store versions of documents too.
Try running a manual backup and see how long it takes.
So instead of buying music from amazon, storing it in their cloud, then playing it on iOS, the labels want me to, what? Buy it on iTunes? Buy a CD then sync? Buy a computer and sit there to listen?
This makes no sense. Are they thinking that people are uploading songs they've pirated to amazon cloud, and so trying to block people from playing them? Then why don't they just block amazon cloud completely, if it's illegal?
If the songs on amazon cloud are legal, then it should not matter what device plays them. Unless the labels are intentionally trying to get you to re-buy your music if you want to play it on more then one device.
It's really very simple. Despite what you might think, when you buy music, you're buying a license to use that track for limited purpose. Depending on who you buy your music from, you will have different uses. This is not usually transparent to the user, as its all based on behind the scenes negotiations. Music purchased from Apple has no restrictions, because that's how their deal has been worked out over time.
Amazon is a completely different company with a completely different set of deals. Anytime something comes up thats not included in the original deal, it becomes a new point for negotiation, and despite what common sense or logic would dictate, doesn't always land.
It works all the time, if nothing changes then it doesn't back up.
Again the back up is incremental, something has to actually change in order to qualify running a new backup.
Its not, he just doesn't understand how it works.
I use apps on my phone everyday. I play Angry Birds just about every day. I take pictures every day, I do MMS (iMessage) messaging just about every day. If it's backing up app settings/data, it should be making incremental backups every day. Whenever you use an app, data is being constantly updated/changed.
Or at least that's my understanding. Otherwise, what point would the backups be if it it just backed up your actual applications, but not the data that goes along with it?
I took plenty of pictures last night during halloween, sent a few iMessages, and added a new app. Since that time, my phone was plugged in on the night stand overnight, and then plugged in again this morning before I got in the shower. This is what it shows (my last manual backup):
You mean that most of the artists folks love are signed with labels that don't give them a say in such rules and the labels hate these sorts of services cause they think it is going to bring back what fraction of piracy has gone away.
Or they believe as Pete Townsend does that we should have to pay a fee every time we listen to a song a la the way that commercials have to pay a usage fee to Pete for using a Who track in their ad.
Both. It's an awful scene. Instead of being independent, new artists sign with major labels. FAIL.
And some of them even become as stupid and arrogant as Pete Toolshed.
It's really very simple. Despite what you might think, when you buy music, you're buying a license to use that track for limited purpose. Depending on who you buy your music from, you will have different uses.
Even if that is so, then music industry has forced you into an illegal contract by not making the terms of use known to you before you purchase the music. There is nothing on a CD package that says there is any limitation to what and where you use the music on the CD. Digital downloads may be different.
I use apps on my phone everyday. I play Angry Birds just about every day. I take pictures every day, I do MMS (iMessage) messaging just about every day. If it's backing up app settings/data, it should be making incremental backups every day. Whenever you use an app, data is being constantly updated/changed.
Or at least that's my understanding. Otherwise, what point would the backups be if it it just backed up your actual applications, but not the data that goes along with it?
I took plenty of pictures last night during halloween, sent a few iMessages, and added a new app. Since that time, my phone was plugged in on the night stand overnight, and then plugged in again this morning before I got in the shower. This is what it shows (my last manual backup):
Oh I see, you're going on the Last Backup: time....thats the last full back up that was run, but from the way I understand it, very small incremental backups of less than 200 mb do take place but are not reflected by the "Last Backup" statement. Maybe that's a "bug", and maybe its not. The only way to test it is to run a back up, take a single photograph (or other small change), plug it in, let it finish, then restore your phone from backup.
If your small change is reflected, which i believe 100% that it would be, then it'll be proven that the Last Backup statement isn't completely accurate.
Oh I see, you're going on the Last Backup: time....thats the last full back up that was run, but from the way I understand it, very small incremental backups of less than 200 mb do take place but are not reflected by the "Last Backup" statement. Maybe that's a "bug", and maybe its not. The only way to test it is to run a back up, take a single photograph (or other small change), plug it in, let it finish, then restore your phone from backup.
If your small change is reflected, which i believe 100% that it would be, then it'll be proven that the Last Backup statement isn't completely accurate.
I don't have time to do a test right now, but maybe later. Regardless, it SHOULD show the last time the phone was backed up PERIOD. The average user shouldn't have to tell the difference between a full backup and an incremental backup.
If a user were to go to do a restore and see the last backup date as two days previous when they know that their phone is plugged in every night, they'd probably freak out that some recent data didn't get backed up
Just because everything works fine for you doesn't mean that's the case for everyone. The fact is there were known issues before release, and it was released without fixing them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna
Bit of a fuzzy launch date. And when they release it in two days no one will remember that Apple missed the date.
My point isn't whether people will care or not, just saying that Apple actually did make that announcement (and no amount of "fuzzy" puts November into early October). As I said before, I'd rather the software be late if it means they make more fixes before releasing it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by enjourni
Are they thinking that people are uploading songs they've pirated to amazon cloud, and so trying to block people from playing them?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the Amazon cloud support all files and not just ones bought from them? If that is the case, then people are able to upload pirated songs and that's probably the objection.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmz
Nothing irritates me more when the blogosphere rips apart a new Apple service, them bombards their servers on launch day trying to sign up.
The ultimate hypocrisy.
It's only hypocrisy if it's the same people complaining and using the service. And I doubt there's much overlap between the relatively small group posting online and the millions actually using the products.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jd_in_sb
I'd rather the public complain about it being late than complain about an unfinished product launched too soon.
Exactly. People don't remember late releases, but buggy software can make a bad enough impression that people stop using it and are never willing to give it a second chance.
Comments
Yes, I have a good solid internet connection. Using Time Warner Cable Roadrunner High Speed which has been rock solid for years. The only time I ever have an issue with the connection is when the power goes out (which is rare).
We only have two laptop between us, and two iPhones, so it's not like we're pinging the internet constantly. Especially when we're asleep.
Let me add, if I initiate a manual backup, it completes in less than a minute (backup is only 211MB according to iCloud). So it's not like the backup would be bombarding my wireless connection.
Just ran the same on mine, took a minute. Seems to be an incremental backup, which makes sense. No idea why yours is failing at night
And who wants to bet every other news blog will be reporting this story as "Apple pulls Amazon Cloud music player" and spin it as an anticompetitive move?
I'll take that bet.
You want the pixie styx, the circus peanuts or the tootsie roll pops.
Given that this app apparently makes your Amazon cloud files appear inside your music player it is also possible that the 'legal reasons' is actually false and it as yanked for using private APIs to make that appearance work.
Or it could be APIs and something related to the deals Amazon has with the labels. Just because they haven't reveled any doesn't mean they don't have any kind of arrangement. Or might be working on one that they feel this app would risk. Or perhaps they just don't like the app and they are playing the "we didn't give him permission to use our APIs" game. Apple would respect such claims given that they are also partners with Amazon via using the One Click patents.
Are you guys going to talk about the fact that Apple missed the launch date for iTunes Match today?
Who cares? Its obviously not done.
Amazing... you can buy music you just can't listen to it when you want or anywhere you want on any device you want. I wish the music industry would just die like the big dumb dinosaur it is.
Actually no you don't, because most of the artists you love are actually pretty sleazy people who side with their labels instead of Apple.
Well for me, iCloud backup has been spotty at best on my iPhone 4. It's supposed to backup whenever the phone is plugged in, locked, and connected to WiFi. But it rarely ever syncs automatically.
Sometimes I go into iCloud settings and the latest backup is from two days ago even though my phone is plugged in to the wall at home at least twice in the mornings and all night long on my nightstand.
It works all the time, if nothing changes then it doesn't back up.
Look at the apple boards, tons of issues. Duplicate contacts and calendar events, things disappearing and not syncing (including lost documents in the cloud). Issues converting mobileme accounts. I'm sure it's working fine for some people but this bun could have used a bit more time in the oven, shame it was rushed to match up with the iPhone release.
There was no "rush". I moved my MobileMe account over months ago. Everything works fine. Those "duplicate" issues are user-created and have been around since the dawn of calendars and address books. They just inevitably pop up with the release of any new device and any new service.
Yes, I have a good solid internet connection. Using Time Warner Cable Roadrunner High Speed which has been rock solid for years. The only time I ever have an issue with the connection is when the power goes out (which is rare).
We only have two laptop between us, and two iPhones, so it's not like we're pinging the internet constantly. Especially when we're asleep.
Let me add, if I initiate a manual backup, it completes in less than a minute (backup is only 211MB according to iCloud). So it's not like the backup would be bombarding my wireless connection.
Again the back up is incremental, something has to actually change in order to qualify running a new backup.
Just ran the same on mine, took a minute. Seems to be an incremental backup, which makes sense. No idea why yours is failing at night
Its not, he just doesn't understand how it works.
He's right, at the iPhone 5 launch event they announced "end of october" for Match.
Bit of a fuzzy launch date. And when they release it in two days no one will remember that Apple missed the date. They'll be too busy griping about how they can't connect etc because everyone in the US shockingly decided to sign up for the service in the first hour of launch day even though the service is lame blah blah.
This is ridiculous. Suppose I had my own home server and devised a way to listen to it on any of my devices anywhere. What's the difference? The same person who bought the music is the person listening to it. Why does the music industry have a say about any of this?
Because YOU didn't. Someone else did, and that someone else had a target painted on them, and the trigger pulled.
The next round will go similarly.
because most of the artists you love are actually pretty sleazy people who side with their labels instead of Apple..
You mean that most of the artists folks love are signed with labels that don't give them a say in such rules and the labels hate these sorts of services cause they think it is going to bring back what fraction of piracy has gone away.
Or they believe as Pete Townsend does that we should have to pay a fee every time we listen to a song a la the way that commercials have to pay a usage fee to Pete for using a Who track in their ad.
This makes no sense. Are they thinking that people are uploading songs they've pirated to amazon cloud, and so trying to block people from playing them? Then why don't they just block amazon cloud completely, if it's illegal?
If the songs on amazon cloud are legal, then it should not matter what device plays them. Unless the labels are intentionally trying to get you to re-buy your music if you want to play it on more then one device.
Bit of a fuzzy launch date. And when they release it in two days no one will remember that Apple missed the date. They'll be too busy griping about how they can't connect etc because everyone in the US shockingly decided to sign up for the service in the first hour of launch day even though the service is lame blah blah.
Nothing irritates me more when the blogosphere rips apart a new Apple service, them bombards their servers on launch day trying to sign up.
The ultimate hypocrisy.
No one wanted DRM but it did keep the thieves from just giving away someone else's hard work for free.
Um yea DRM worked great to stop the pirates.
And every bittorrent site on the web just got shut down.
/sarcasm.
edit: shit, didn't really think about how much data is uploading until now. I must be clocking 10+ GB to iCloud overnight.
I'm guessing like most intelligent backups, it doesn't do a *full* backup every time; instead, only changes are uploaded. That's how DropBox works at least. I'm pretty sure that's how Lion (and Time Machine) store versions of documents too.
Try running a manual backup and see how long it takes.
So instead of buying music from amazon, storing it in their cloud, then playing it on iOS, the labels want me to, what? Buy it on iTunes? Buy a CD then sync? Buy a computer and sit there to listen?
This makes no sense. Are they thinking that people are uploading songs they've pirated to amazon cloud, and so trying to block people from playing them? Then why don't they just block amazon cloud completely, if it's illegal?
If the songs on amazon cloud are legal, then it should not matter what device plays them. Unless the labels are intentionally trying to get you to re-buy your music if you want to play it on more then one device.
It's really very simple. Despite what you might think, when you buy music, you're buying a license to use that track for limited purpose. Depending on who you buy your music from, you will have different uses. This is not usually transparent to the user, as its all based on behind the scenes negotiations. Music purchased from Apple has no restrictions, because that's how their deal has been worked out over time.
Amazon is a completely different company with a completely different set of deals. Anytime something comes up thats not included in the original deal, it becomes a new point for negotiation, and despite what common sense or logic would dictate, doesn't always land.
Unless the labels are intentionally trying to get you to re-buy your music if you want to play it on more then one device.
That's the ticket.
Just like the studios, they want to make it more complicated than it needs to be so as to preserve the status quo.
However, in the words of Dr. Horrible, "the status is not... quo".
It works all the time, if nothing changes then it doesn't back up.
Again the back up is incremental, something has to actually change in order to qualify running a new backup.
Its not, he just doesn't understand how it works.
I use apps on my phone everyday. I play Angry Birds just about every day. I take pictures every day, I do MMS (iMessage) messaging just about every day. If it's backing up app settings/data, it should be making incremental backups every day. Whenever you use an app, data is being constantly updated/changed.
Or at least that's my understanding. Otherwise, what point would the backups be if it it just backed up your actual applications, but not the data that goes along with it?
I took plenty of pictures last night during halloween, sent a few iMessages, and added a new app. Since that time, my phone was plugged in on the night stand overnight, and then plugged in again this morning before I got in the shower. This is what it shows (my last manual backup):
Are you guys going to talk about the fact that Apple missed the launch date for iTunes Match today?
I'd rather the public complain about it being late than complain about an unfinished product launched too soon.
You mean that most of the artists folks love are signed with labels that don't give them a say in such rules and the labels hate these sorts of services cause they think it is going to bring back what fraction of piracy has gone away.
Or they believe as Pete Townsend does that we should have to pay a fee every time we listen to a song a la the way that commercials have to pay a usage fee to Pete for using a Who track in their ad.
Both. It's an awful scene. Instead of being independent, new artists sign with major labels. FAIL.
And some of them even become as stupid and arrogant as Pete Toolshed.
It's really very simple. Despite what you might think, when you buy music, you're buying a license to use that track for limited purpose. Depending on who you buy your music from, you will have different uses.
Even if that is so, then music industry has forced you into an illegal contract by not making the terms of use known to you before you purchase the music. There is nothing on a CD package that says there is any limitation to what and where you use the music on the CD. Digital downloads may be different.
I use apps on my phone everyday. I play Angry Birds just about every day. I take pictures every day, I do MMS (iMessage) messaging just about every day. If it's backing up app settings/data, it should be making incremental backups every day. Whenever you use an app, data is being constantly updated/changed.
Or at least that's my understanding. Otherwise, what point would the backups be if it it just backed up your actual applications, but not the data that goes along with it?
I took plenty of pictures last night during halloween, sent a few iMessages, and added a new app. Since that time, my phone was plugged in on the night stand overnight, and then plugged in again this morning before I got in the shower. This is what it shows (my last manual backup):
Oh I see, you're going on the Last Backup: time....thats the last full back up that was run, but from the way I understand it, very small incremental backups of less than 200 mb do take place but are not reflected by the "Last Backup" statement. Maybe that's a "bug", and maybe its not. The only way to test it is to run a back up, take a single photograph (or other small change), plug it in, let it finish, then restore your phone from backup.
If your small change is reflected, which i believe 100% that it would be, then it'll be proven that the Last Backup statement isn't completely accurate.
Oh I see, you're going on the Last Backup: time....thats the last full back up that was run, but from the way I understand it, very small incremental backups of less than 200 mb do take place but are not reflected by the "Last Backup" statement. Maybe that's a "bug", and maybe its not. The only way to test it is to run a back up, take a single photograph (or other small change), plug it in, let it finish, then restore your phone from backup.
If your small change is reflected, which i believe 100% that it would be, then it'll be proven that the Last Backup statement isn't completely accurate.
I don't have time to do a test right now, but maybe later. Regardless, it SHOULD show the last time the phone was backed up PERIOD. The average user shouldn't have to tell the difference between a full backup and an incremental backup.
If a user were to go to do a restore and see the last backup date as two days previous when they know that their phone is plugged in every night, they'd probably freak out that some recent data didn't get backed up
Everything works fine.
Just because everything works fine for you doesn't mean that's the case for everyone. The fact is there were known issues before release, and it was released without fixing them.
Bit of a fuzzy launch date. And when they release it in two days no one will remember that Apple missed the date.
My point isn't whether people will care or not, just saying that Apple actually did make that announcement (and no amount of "fuzzy" puts November into early October). As I said before, I'd rather the software be late if it means they make more fixes before releasing it.
Are they thinking that people are uploading songs they've pirated to amazon cloud, and so trying to block people from playing them?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the Amazon cloud support all files and not just ones bought from them? If that is the case, then people are able to upload pirated songs and that's probably the objection.
Nothing irritates me more when the blogosphere rips apart a new Apple service, them bombards their servers on launch day trying to sign up.
The ultimate hypocrisy.
It's only hypocrisy if it's the same people complaining and using the service. And I doubt there's much overlap between the relatively small group posting online and the millions actually using the products.
I'd rather the public complain about it being late than complain about an unfinished product launched too soon.
Exactly. People don't remember late releases, but buggy software can make a bad enough impression that people stop using it and are never willing to give it a second chance.