Fire's success isn't measured by how much money Amazon makes on each one sold, nor the number sold, it's measured by how much money it brings in after it's sold.
Exactly... and Amazon has a completely different business model than Apple.
Apple makes gobs of money on the initial hardware sale... plus they get additional income from apps, music, videos, etc.
It appears that Amazon will be losing money on the initial hardware sale... and must rely on income from apps, music, videos, etc.
Yikes!
Do you know how many apps and media a person must buy from Amazon to make up that difference?
Apple has always said the only reason they operate the iTunes Store is to sell hardware. Although the iTunes Store makes some money... it pales in comparison to their hardware sales.
I wonder if Amazon has really examined this? At least they'll get $80/year from Prime... it might balance out in the end.
I'm not buying this multi-sized tablet fiasco separated by 2" differences. I can see 2 different tablet sizes of about 7" and 10", but not investing in keeping 3 or more Ui paradigms in service at once. Mobile OSes aren't windowed so having various display sizes simply doesn't work like it does with desktop OSes.
I agree that it's not yet proven but given apples success it's at least a good indicator and one which other tablet manufactures are paying attention to closely I'd guess. It may be that motorola and samsung were close enough in size but were lacking in other areas.
The hp touchpad isn't a good example of anything except the fact that people like things that are nearly free.
On the contrary. It's a bloody good example of "perceived value".
The fact that you would refer to a $99 buggy, slow tablet with hardly any apps, no ecosystem and no future to speak as "nearly free" is a shining example of my point.
On the contrary. It's a bloody good example of "perceived value".
The fact that you would refer to a $99 buggy, slow tablet with hardly any apps, no ecosystem and no future to speak as "nearly free" is a shining example of my point.
I'm not alone in thinking that a tablet that allows you to surf the web, check email, watch movies and play music for $99 is very good value.
On the contrary. It's a bloody good example of "perceived value".
The fact that you would refer to a $99 buggy, slow tablet with hardly any apps, no ecosystem and no future to speak as "nearly free" is a shining example of my point.
I would argue that a price point which gives a good sense of "value" is actually more important. -firefly7475
More important in what way. I don't think a fire sale of a couple hundred thousand units(I think) is more important in any way than selling over 10 million units in a quarter within a sustainable business model. The perceived value is obvious - they were practically giving them away.
I'm not alone in thinking that a tablet that allows you to surf the web, check email, watch movies and play music for $99 is very good value.
It would be fantastic value. Unfortunately the current purchasing power of $99 USD means your margins would be extremely thin to do all that stuff in an enjoyable way. But hey, I'm not Steve Jobs or Tim Cook, so, maybe it is possible.
But gut feeling is that you'd have to do massive volume to deliver anything above 8" that's worthwhile to use.
Mobile OSes aren't windowed so having various display sizes simply doesn't work like it does with desktop OSes.
There is your solution. Apple should bring windowing to iOS, enabled on +7" iOS devices. Samesung has a 7.0, 7.7, 8.9 and 10.1 tablets, if Apple doesn't expand their iPad offerings they are set to lose.
I'm not buying this multi-sized tablet fiasco separated by 2" differences. I can see 2 different tablet sizes of about 7" and 10", but not investing in keeping 3 or more Ui paradigms in service at once. Mobile OSes aren't windowed so having various display sizes simply doesn't work like it does with desktop OSes.
Agreed somewhat - but to note they are touch-driven and used with people who hold them in their hands, making the size of the screen with respect to the individual using it much more relevant than with computer screens. It does not require more UI paradigms or changes to programs, just different screen sizes with the same resolution for different people:
- People have different size fingers (consider a child, or a small woman vs., say, a male construction worker)
- People have different arm lengths, so the distance of the tablet is different
- People have different eyesight/motoristic capabilities, special requirements
Saying one size fits all is like saying a single shoe-size would fit all. To have the same experience, i.e. to have the elements on the screen same relative size to your fingers etc., depending on the above personal factors and perhaps more, different size people would need different sized tablets. The iPad experinece is hugely different for a child than it is to a basket ball player. Commercial decisions are one thing, but clearly the humane need to have the option to tailor the size of whatever tools - including tablets - you use to your physique is there. Commercially, of course, there needs to be compromises. I fall to the camp who thinks there is too much compromise in the iOS lineup sizewise, two size-options for both the iPhone and iPad would be a great start. Maybe even more.
Btw, I'd welcome windowing or something. Who says mobile OSes couldn't be windowed successfully. Someone just needs to figure out how, it is quite natural to multitask in real life with different things open at the same time in front of you (say referencing two books at a time).
So before the first one hits the shelves they are already outdating it. Or at least confusing you with too many options of "things to come".
Hardly. This is a rumor. Not like Amazon stated that they were doing it. And which tech company isn't consistently working on its products' successors?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rtapps
Yeah the Apple people can rest easy, this will be an upgrade for kindle only users(there are a lot of them though) but I don't think it will draw people hunting for real tablets.
Success based on a 9.7" screen is correlation not causation, i.e., Apple have shown that they can successfully sell the iPad which has a 9.7" screen, that doesn't mean the iPad is successful because it has a 9.7" screen. ...
Mentioning correlation and causation also doesn't prove the the iPad isn't successful "because it has a 9.7" screen".
Success speaks for itself. Apple obviously put a lot of effort into finding the sweet spot, the optimum size, for a tablet (and smartphone) and that research has paid off. Competitors with tiny tablets haven't done any research, they've simply scrambled to put something on the market that they can call a tablet and that's price competitive with the iPad, and while you can argue that they've failed because Android sucks as a tablet OS, it's hard to ignore the fact that they have relatively tiny screens.
No, the screen size isn't the only reason the iPad is successful, but the screen size is a significant part of that equation. The Fire may have some success as a "reader" device, but it's not going to shake up the tablet market, which is really the iPad market, as a whole. An 8.9" tablet is probably more useful than a 7", but I don't think Amazon's decisions here have anything to do with that; they're simply trying, like all the other (besides Apple) "tablet" manufacturers, to hit a price point and that's what's driving their design decisions.
I really don't understand the reasoning of people who argue that all screen sizes are equally valid in smartphones and tablets. This sort of logic, heralded by the "one size doesn't fit all" mantra, simply ignores the fact that there is almost always an optimum, a balance point, where a general purpose tool is best suited to its purpose.
... Saying one size fits all is like saying a single shoe-size would fit all. To have the same experience, i.e. to have the elements on the screen same relative size to your fingers etc., depending on the above personal factors and perhaps more, different size people would need different sized tablets. The iPad experinece is hugely different for a child than it is to a basket ball player. Commercial decisions are one thing, but clearly the humane need to have the option to tailor the size of whatever tools - including tablets - you use to your physique is there. Commercially, of course, there needs to be compromises. I fall to the camp who thinks there is too much compromise in the iOS lineup sizewise, two size-options for both the iPhone and iPad would be a great start. Maybe even more. ...
Following your logic to it's natural conclusion, the correct strategy for tablet manufacturers is to produce an infinite variety of tablet sizes, to match the practically infinite variation in humans. Clearly, that's absurd, as is the reasoning that leads to it.
There is your solution. Apple should bring windowing to iOS, enabled on +7" iOS devices. Samesung has a 7.0, 7.7, 8.9 and 10.1 tablets, if Apple doesn't expand their iPad offerings they are set to lose.
I'll assume you're being sarcastic and have a nice giggle here.
So before the first one hits the shelves they are already outdating it. Or at least confusing you with too many options of "things to come". Yeah the Apple people can rest easy, this will be an upgrade for kindle only users(there are a lot of them though) but I don't think it will draw people hunting for real tablets.
Did you read the article? This is merely rumour and speculation - Amazon hasn't announced anything or "confused" anyone. They have one tablet.
According to the Amazon Developer page for the Kindle Fire, "Your app cannot require a gyroscope, camera, WAN module, Bluetooth, microphone, GPS, or micro-SD to function. In addition, your app must not be a theme or wallpaper that manipulates the user interface of the device."
So a WiFi only 7" form factor with no microphone, camera, GPS, gyro, and my mouth is suppose to be watering to get my hands on this 'bargain'?
Despite the fact that the 7" form factor has been a failure in for media tablets, Amazon is probably gambling on the hope that consumers won't see the Kindle Fire as a competitor to the iPad, but more of a "color Kindle with benefits," a blinged-out e-book reader.
I think that is correct.
But Amazon sells a whole lot more than eBooks. They also sell movies and TV shows which can be consumed directly by the device, and everything else under the sun, which can be delivered via UPS.
Comments
?and then discontinued, because that was less than half what HP paid to make them?
Great value for consumers, maybe. Terrible value for the manufacturer.
Completely irrelevant to the point I was making, but very true none-the-less.
Fire's success isn't measured by how much money Amazon makes on each one sold, nor the number sold, it's measured by how much money it brings in after it's sold.
Exactly... and Amazon has a completely different business model than Apple.
Apple makes gobs of money on the initial hardware sale... plus they get additional income from apps, music, videos, etc.
It appears that Amazon will be losing money on the initial hardware sale... and must rely on income from apps, music, videos, etc.
Yikes!
Do you know how many apps and media a person must buy from Amazon to make up that difference?
Apple has always said the only reason they operate the iTunes Store is to sell hardware. Although the iTunes Store makes some money... it pales in comparison to their hardware sales.
I wonder if Amazon has really examined this? At least they'll get $80/year from Prime... it might balance out in the end.
Mobile OSes aren't windowed so having various display sizes simply doesn't work like it does with desktop OSes.
Exacutally!
I agree that it's not yet proven but given apples success it's at least a good indicator and one which other tablet manufactures are paying attention to closely I'd guess. It may be that motorola and samsung were close enough in size but were lacking in other areas.
The hp touchpad isn't a good example of anything except the fact that people like things that are nearly free.
On the contrary. It's a bloody good example of "perceived value".
The fact that you would refer to a $99 buggy, slow tablet with hardly any apps, no ecosystem and no future to speak as "nearly free" is a shining example of my point.
On the contrary. It's a bloody good example of "perceived value".
The fact that you would refer to a $99 buggy, slow tablet with hardly any apps, no ecosystem and no future to speak as "nearly free" is a shining example of my point.
I'm not alone in thinking that a tablet that allows you to surf the web, check email, watch movies and play music for $99 is very good value.
On the contrary. It's a bloody good example of "perceived value".
The fact that you would refer to a $99 buggy, slow tablet with hardly any apps, no ecosystem and no future to speak as "nearly free" is a shining example of my point.
I would argue that a price point which gives a good sense of "value" is actually more important. -firefly7475
More important in what way. I don't think a fire sale of a couple hundred thousand units(I think) is more important in any way than selling over 10 million units in a quarter within a sustainable business model. The perceived value is obvious - they were practically giving them away.
I'm not alone in thinking that a tablet that allows you to surf the web, check email, watch movies and play music for $99 is very good value.
It would be fantastic value. Unfortunately the current purchasing power of $99 USD means your margins would be extremely thin to do all that stuff in an enjoyable way. But hey, I'm not Steve Jobs or Tim Cook, so, maybe it is possible.
But gut feeling is that you'd have to do massive volume to deliver anything above 8" that's worthwhile to use.
Mobile OSes aren't windowed so having various display sizes simply doesn't work like it does with desktop OSes.
There is your solution. Apple should bring windowing to iOS, enabled on +7" iOS devices. Samesung has a 7.0, 7.7, 8.9 and 10.1 tablets, if Apple doesn't expand their iPad offerings they are set to lose.
I'm not buying this multi-sized tablet fiasco separated by 2" differences. I can see 2 different tablet sizes of about 7" and 10", but not investing in keeping 3 or more Ui paradigms in service at once. Mobile OSes aren't windowed so having various display sizes simply doesn't work like it does with desktop OSes.
Agreed somewhat - but to note they are touch-driven and used with people who hold them in their hands, making the size of the screen with respect to the individual using it much more relevant than with computer screens. It does not require more UI paradigms or changes to programs, just different screen sizes with the same resolution for different people:
- People have different size fingers (consider a child, or a small woman vs., say, a male construction worker)
- People have different arm lengths, so the distance of the tablet is different
- People have different eyesight/motoristic capabilities, special requirements
Saying one size fits all is like saying a single shoe-size would fit all. To have the same experience, i.e. to have the elements on the screen same relative size to your fingers etc., depending on the above personal factors and perhaps more, different size people would need different sized tablets. The iPad experinece is hugely different for a child than it is to a basket ball player. Commercial decisions are one thing, but clearly the humane need to have the option to tailor the size of whatever tools - including tablets - you use to your physique is there. Commercially, of course, there needs to be compromises. I fall to the camp who thinks there is too much compromise in the iOS lineup sizewise, two size-options for both the iPhone and iPad would be a great start. Maybe even more.
Btw, I'd welcome windowing or something. Who says mobile OSes couldn't be windowed successfully. Someone just needs to figure out how, it is quite natural to multitask in real life with different things open at the same time in front of you (say referencing two books at a time).
So before the first one hits the shelves they are already outdating it. Or at least confusing you with too many options of "things to come".
Hardly. This is a rumor. Not like Amazon stated that they were doing it. And which tech company isn't consistently working on its products' successors?
Yeah the Apple people can rest easy, this will be an upgrade for kindle only users(there are a lot of them though) but I don't think it will draw people hunting for real tablets.
In what way is the Fire not a "real" tablet?
Apple has proven no such thing.
Success based on a 9.7" screen is correlation not causation, i.e., Apple have shown that they can successfully sell the iPad which has a 9.7" screen, that doesn't mean the iPad is successful because it has a 9.7" screen. ...
Mentioning correlation and causation also doesn't prove the the iPad isn't successful "because it has a 9.7" screen".
Success speaks for itself. Apple obviously put a lot of effort into finding the sweet spot, the optimum size, for a tablet (and smartphone) and that research has paid off. Competitors with tiny tablets haven't done any research, they've simply scrambled to put something on the market that they can call a tablet and that's price competitive with the iPad, and while you can argue that they've failed because Android sucks as a tablet OS, it's hard to ignore the fact that they have relatively tiny screens.
No, the screen size isn't the only reason the iPad is successful, but the screen size is a significant part of that equation. The Fire may have some success as a "reader" device, but it's not going to shake up the tablet market, which is really the iPad market, as a whole. An 8.9" tablet is probably more useful than a 7", but I don't think Amazon's decisions here have anything to do with that; they're simply trying, like all the other (besides Apple) "tablet" manufacturers, to hit a price point and that's what's driving their design decisions.
I really don't understand the reasoning of people who argue that all screen sizes are equally valid in smartphones and tablets. This sort of logic, heralded by the "one size doesn't fit all" mantra, simply ignores the fact that there is almost always an optimum, a balance point, where a general purpose tool is best suited to its purpose.
... Saying one size fits all is like saying a single shoe-size would fit all. To have the same experience, i.e. to have the elements on the screen same relative size to your fingers etc., depending on the above personal factors and perhaps more, different size people would need different sized tablets. The iPad experinece is hugely different for a child than it is to a basket ball player. Commercial decisions are one thing, but clearly the humane need to have the option to tailor the size of whatever tools - including tablets - you use to your physique is there. Commercially, of course, there needs to be compromises. I fall to the camp who thinks there is too much compromise in the iOS lineup sizewise, two size-options for both the iPhone and iPad would be a great start. Maybe even more. ...
Following your logic to it's natural conclusion, the correct strategy for tablet manufacturers is to produce an infinite variety of tablet sizes, to match the practically infinite variation in humans. Clearly, that's absurd, as is the reasoning that leads to it.
There is your solution. Apple should bring windowing to iOS, enabled on +7" iOS devices. Samesung has a 7.0, 7.7, 8.9 and 10.1 tablets, if Apple doesn't expand their iPad offerings they are set to lose.
I'll assume you're being sarcastic and have a nice giggle here.
So before the first one hits the shelves they are already outdating it. Or at least confusing you with too many options of "things to come". Yeah the Apple people can rest easy, this will be an upgrade for kindle only users(there are a lot of them though) but I don't think it will draw people hunting for real tablets.
Did you read the article? This is merely rumour and speculation - Amazon hasn't announced anything or "confused" anyone. They have one tablet.
Insiders also hinted that Amazon could follow up the 8.9-inch Fire with "9.7- to 10.1-inch models" later that year.
This is great news! I hope it is true!
Diversity of choice is always a good thing for us consumers!
So a WiFi only 7" form factor with no microphone, camera, GPS, gyro, and my mouth is suppose to be watering to get my hands on this 'bargain'?
Despite the fact that the 7" form factor has been a failure in for media tablets, Amazon is probably gambling on the hope that consumers won't see the Kindle Fire as a competitor to the iPad, but more of a "color Kindle with benefits," a blinged-out e-book reader.
I think that is correct.
But Amazon sells a whole lot more than eBooks. They also sell movies and TV shows which can be consumed directly by the device, and everything else under the sun, which can be delivered via UPS.
Kind of like an Apple TV on steroids.