Not trying to be rude and I understand you want to say no. But you are really saying yes.
I'm saying that under extreme conditions, grabbing the phone in an unnatural way will cause a problem. You're saying that one finger in many areas will cause a problem, and that's not so.
Yes really. I have a 4 and all it takes is a light touch bridging the antenna gap. That can be with a finger tip or (far more commonly) the base of the thumb. Otherwise the iPhone 4 radio performance is much better than the 3GS.
I haven't had that problem at all. I do notice the signal drop. But it hasn't been a problem. The signal drops much more if you grab it over the majority of the phone. Then, it's a problem.
If you live in an area with a really bad signal problem, it will be worse for you. I won't deny that. But there have been tens of millions of people with this phone, and the problems have been few.
I work on many systems in older homes and your problems are typical. But gosh, most of these older houses have brickwork and trim that you could not have built today!
Steve's own engineers warned him about this, and he was so hurt when it happened he even thought about ignoring it, but Tim persuaded him to hold a press conference and deal with it. Say what you will, but these guys were spot on to say the issue was real. In truth, the real reason it went away is that everyone (99.99% of owners) uses cases on their iPhones for fear of breaking them. True story.
Did you not read my post? 3.5" within the ideal goalposts for the size of the device encasing the display. Again, if you can add a larger display without making the phone feel larger thus reducing it's one-hand usability then the goalposts for what is ideal will grow to include a larger display.
I did read your post. It sounded to me like the 3.5" screen size a compromise for the stated benefits and a bigger screen would be more desirable. I just wanted to be clear.
Thank god CR put the iphone back on its recommended list, cause you know, sales have been spotty.
I don't see what sales has to do with it. Brittany Spears records sell well. Yes, the 4 was the best phone at the time, but that doesn't mean the issue wasn't real.
I did read your post. It sounded to me like the 3.5" screen size a compromise for the stated benefits and a bigger screen would be more desirable. I just wanted to be clear.
The average consumer doesn't want bigger. It's the geeks who want bigger. And there are also design reasons for choosing 3.5".
So the phone didn't lose an abnormal amount of signal strength simply by placing a finger on a specific spot?
Bad reading or not (the same code they've had for years to display signal strength btw) that is a design flaw.
Again. It is not as big as people trumped it up to be, and I feel the benefits of the iPhone 4 outweigh the signal problem...(especially as a user who uses a phone mostly as a mini computer than an actual phone) but there was still a problem...which doesn't happen with the new phone...
The way it worked (I use to know precisely) is that the way bars were read allowed a relatively weak signal to read as full and the slightest detuning would cause it to shift a few dB ranges to go from full to low but in a relatively strong signal the same loss would go from full to full (unnoticeable)
It was a real issue....not as big an issue as people assumed...but an issue nonetheless in the design of the iPhone 4...I don't agree with CR's initial report, but I do understand it. (I also don't get how they rate anyways as they sound like a bunch of clueless fools to begin with)
Different phones react differently in different situations. Point was the iPhone 4 lost a significant amount of signal simply by bridging the gap. Design flaw, not a huge flaw, but it existed.
I guess this means you're a troll now...
Look, there is a problem with understanding exactly what was happening. Sure, you could make a drop in signal with a finger, but it wasn't more than many phones exhibit with certain normal grips. You could cut the signal back by a large amount with the death grip, but that's unnatural.
But in addition, the question is how much did this matter? The answer is that most of the time; not at all. Unless the signal was very low to begin with, neither way of holding it affected a call. And in most areas where the signal is that low, you can usually move a bit, and it's fine.
In my house, the signal level goes from -74db to -130db, then cuts out. As long as the signal was above about -110db, no grip affected the call. Below that, it could be a problem until I got to -115, when with a grip it cut out. That's pretty low. And if I changed my grip; no problem.
So, yes, there was a drop, and it could get pretty big if you really gripped the phone, it's mostly not a problem. And if it was, you could just change the grip. Not holding the phone by the very bottom ended the problem entirely, and that's not an odd way to hold it, and was only needed about, what, 1% of the time? Not much of a problem.
Look, there is a problem with understanding exactly what was happening. Sure, you could make a drop in signal with a finger, but it wasn't more than many phones exhibit with certain normal grips. You could cut the signal back by a large amount with the death grip, but that's unnatural.
But in addition, the question is how much did this matter? The answer is that most of the time; not at all. Unless the signal was very low to begin with, neither way of holding it affected a call. And in most areas where the signal is that low, you can usually move a bit, and it's fine.
In my house, the signal level goes from -74db to -130db, then cuts out. As long as the signal was above about -110db, no grip affected the call. Below that, it could be a problem until I got to -115, when with a grip it cut out. That's pretty low. And if I changed my grip; no problem.
So, yes, there was a drop, and it could get pretty big if you really gripped the phone, it's mostly not a problem. And if it was, you could just change the grip. Not holding the phone by the very bottom ended the problem entirely, and that's not an odd way to hold it, and was only needed about, what, 1% of the time? Not much of a problem.
Another important thing to note, that is hardly ever mentioned, is that not all hands are the same. In particular, sweat and natural oils can affect the conductivity of a person's hand. It is perfectly possible, even likely, that in medium to weak signal areas, one person's hand will have no affect on the iPhone 4 whilst someone else's does.
Steve's own engineers warned him about this, and he was so hurt when it happened he even thought about ignoring it, but Tim persuaded him to hold a press conference and deal with it. Say what you will, but these guys were spot on to say the issue was real. In truth, the real reason it went away is that everyone (99.99% of owners) uses cases on their iPhones for fear of breaking them. True story.
That's BS, about the cases at least. I see more iPhone users without cases than with them, and that includes 4 users.
I don't see what sales has to do with it. Brittany Spears records sell well. Yes, the 4 was the best phone at the time, but that doesn't mean the issue wasn't real.
Real and serious are two things. The issue was real, but it wasn't serious, except for those who have made a hobby out of it.
Another important thing to note, that is hardly ever mentioned, is that not all hands are the same. In particular, sweat and natural oils can affect the conductivity of a person's hand. It is perfectly possible, even likely, that in medium to weak signal areas, one person's hand will have no affect on the iPhone 4 whilst someone else's does.
That's true too. But with over 100 million people owning this phone around the world, you would have expected far more of a scandle if this was a serious problem, and of course, it wasn't.
Can you refer me to the survey where the average consumers and geeks said that?
It seems to me that we can simply look at sales. What are the most popular phones on the networks? #1 is the 4s. #2 is the 4, and #3 or 4 is the two and a half year old 3GS. All on the smaller side these days
Except that as soon as Apple realized the error they released an update for it. Surely you remember that? It's also why this stupid lawsuit will be won by Apple.
Except that as soon as Apple realized the error they released an update for it. Surely you remember that? It's also why this stupid lawsuit will be won by Apple.
I agree that it was "totally wrong" in the sense that there was no attention to detail that the iPhone 4 was very much usable at a much lower dB single strengths than previous iPhones (and other cellphones in general) which warranted the change in the bars to accommodate this paradigm in cellphone antenna design. It's not like Apple to forget about these things, which is too bad because I think if people didn't see 1 to 3 drops in bars on their phones — a situation that was resolved by this SW change — the whole antennagate issue may not have happened, which means no free Bumper program for 2 months which means a 2.4¢ increase in my shares.
That's true too. But with over 100 million people owning this phone around the world, you would have expected far more of a scandle if this was a serious problem, and of course, it wasn't.
Indeed. I just think that "hand variation" and indeed iPhone to iPhone variation*, is something that's overlooked when trying to understand why some people swear blind that the problem is serious ("I just have to touch it with one finger and it drops calls!") when most people's experience doesn't bear that out.
* one iPhone 4 will not behave exactly the same as another; every chip that goes inside an iPhone 4 has its own level of statistical variation in performance from one instance of the chip to another. If a user is unlucky enough to get an iPhone 4 whose relevant chips (e.g. RF receive amplifier and transmit power amplifier) are at the low-end of the performance spectrum, they have particularly conductive hands, and use the phone in medium to weak signal areas, then from their point of view the iPhone antenna "problem" will be serious.
It seems to me that we can simply look at sales. What are the most popular phones on the networks? #1 is the 4s. #2 is the 4, and #3 or 4 is the two and a half year old 3GS. All on the smaller side these days
How does it disprove that 3.5" size is a compromise?
Comments
Not trying to be rude and I understand you want to say no. But you are really saying yes.
I'm saying that under extreme conditions, grabbing the phone in an unnatural way will cause a problem. You're saying that one finger in many areas will cause a problem, and that's not so.
Yes really. I have a 4 and all it takes is a light touch bridging the antenna gap. That can be with a finger tip or (far more commonly) the base of the thumb. Otherwise the iPhone 4 radio performance is much better than the 3GS.
I haven't had that problem at all. I do notice the signal drop. But it hasn't been a problem. The signal drops much more if you grab it over the majority of the phone. Then, it's a problem.
If you live in an area with a really bad signal problem, it will be worse for you. I won't deny that. But there have been tens of millions of people with this phone, and the problems have been few.
I work on many systems in older homes and your problems are typical. But gosh, most of these older houses have brickwork and trim that you could not have built today!
Yeah. But what a hassle!
Consumer who?
Consumer reports, Gruber [faithful].
Steve's own engineers warned him about this, and he was so hurt when it happened he even thought about ignoring it, but Tim persuaded him to hold a press conference and deal with it. Say what you will, but these guys were spot on to say the issue was real. In truth, the real reason it went away is that everyone (99.99% of owners) uses cases on their iPhones for fear of breaking them. True story.
Did you not read my post?
I did read your post. It sounded to me like the 3.5" screen size a compromise for the stated benefits and a bigger screen would be more desirable. I just wanted to be clear.
Thank god CR put the iphone back on its recommended list, cause you know, sales have been spotty.
I don't see what sales has to do with it. Brittany Spears records sell well. Yes, the 4 was the best phone at the time, but that doesn't mean the issue wasn't real.
I did read your post. It sounded to me like the 3.5" screen size a compromise for the stated benefits and a bigger screen would be more desirable. I just wanted to be clear.
The average consumer doesn't want bigger. It's the geeks who want bigger. And there are also design reasons for choosing 3.5".
So according to these bozo's, "bigger screen = better phone".
Awesome.
Yes, Gruber, I mean Steve, I mean...
So the phone didn't lose an abnormal amount of signal strength simply by placing a finger on a specific spot?
Bad reading or not (the same code they've had for years to display signal strength btw) that is a design flaw.
Again. It is not as big as people trumped it up to be, and I feel the benefits of the iPhone 4 outweigh the signal problem...(especially as a user who uses a phone mostly as a mini computer than an actual phone) but there was still a problem...which doesn't happen with the new phone...
The way it worked (I use to know precisely) is that the way bars were read allowed a relatively weak signal to read as full and the slightest detuning would cause it to shift a few dB ranges to go from full to low but in a relatively strong signal the same loss would go from full to full (unnoticeable)
It was a real issue....not as big an issue as people assumed...but an issue nonetheless in the design of the iPhone 4...I don't agree with CR's initial report, but I do understand it. (I also don't get how they rate anyways as they sound like a bunch of clueless fools to begin with)
Different phones react differently in different situations. Point was the iPhone 4 lost a significant amount of signal simply by bridging the gap. Design flaw, not a huge flaw, but it existed.
I guess this means you're a troll now...
Look, there is a problem with understanding exactly what was happening. Sure, you could make a drop in signal with a finger, but it wasn't more than many phones exhibit with certain normal grips. You could cut the signal back by a large amount with the death grip, but that's unnatural.
But in addition, the question is how much did this matter? The answer is that most of the time; not at all. Unless the signal was very low to begin with, neither way of holding it affected a call. And in most areas where the signal is that low, you can usually move a bit, and it's fine.
In my house, the signal level goes from -74db to -130db, then cuts out. As long as the signal was above about -110db, no grip affected the call. Below that, it could be a problem until I got to -115, when with a grip it cut out. That's pretty low. And if I changed my grip; no problem.
So, yes, there was a drop, and it could get pretty big if you really gripped the phone, it's mostly not a problem. And if it was, you could just change the grip. Not holding the phone by the very bottom ended the problem entirely, and that's not an odd way to hold it, and was only needed about, what, 1% of the time? Not much of a problem.
Look, there is a problem with understanding exactly what was happening. Sure, you could make a drop in signal with a finger, but it wasn't more than many phones exhibit with certain normal grips. You could cut the signal back by a large amount with the death grip, but that's unnatural.
But in addition, the question is how much did this matter? The answer is that most of the time; not at all. Unless the signal was very low to begin with, neither way of holding it affected a call. And in most areas where the signal is that low, you can usually move a bit, and it's fine.
In my house, the signal level goes from -74db to -130db, then cuts out. As long as the signal was above about -110db, no grip affected the call. Below that, it could be a problem until I got to -115, when with a grip it cut out. That's pretty low. And if I changed my grip; no problem.
So, yes, there was a drop, and it could get pretty big if you really gripped the phone, it's mostly not a problem. And if it was, you could just change the grip. Not holding the phone by the very bottom ended the problem entirely, and that's not an odd way to hold it, and was only needed about, what, 1% of the time? Not much of a problem.
Another important thing to note, that is hardly ever mentioned, is that not all hands are the same. In particular, sweat and natural oils can affect the conductivity of a person's hand. It is perfectly possible, even likely, that in medium to weak signal areas, one person's hand will have no affect on the iPhone 4 whilst someone else's does.
Consumer reports, Gruber [faithful].
Steve's own engineers warned him about this, and he was so hurt when it happened he even thought about ignoring it, but Tim persuaded him to hold a press conference and deal with it. Say what you will, but these guys were spot on to say the issue was real. In truth, the real reason it went away is that everyone (99.99% of owners) uses cases on their iPhones for fear of breaking them. True story.
That's BS, about the cases at least. I see more iPhone users without cases than with them, and that includes 4 users.
I don't see what sales has to do with it. Brittany Spears records sell well. Yes, the 4 was the best phone at the time, but that doesn't mean the issue wasn't real.
Real and serious are two things. The issue was real, but it wasn't serious, except for those who have made a hobby out of it.
The average consumer doesn't want bigger. It's the geeks who want bigger. And there are also design reasons for choosing 3.5".
Can you refer me to the survey where the average consumers and geeks said that?
Another important thing to note, that is hardly ever mentioned, is that not all hands are the same. In particular, sweat and natural oils can affect the conductivity of a person's hand. It is perfectly possible, even likely, that in medium to weak signal areas, one person's hand will have no affect on the iPhone 4 whilst someone else's does.
That's true too. But with over 100 million people owning this phone around the world, you would have expected far more of a scandle if this was a serious problem, and of course, it wasn't.
Can you refer me to the survey where the average consumers and geeks said that?
It seems to me that we can simply look at sales. What are the most popular phones on the networks? #1 is the 4s. #2 is the 4, and #3 or 4 is the two and a half year old 3GS. All on the smaller side these days
Maybe not, but it seems some folks take issue with what Apple themselves described as having gotten it "totally wrong":
http://www.informationweek.com/news/...ones/231902424
Except that as soon as Apple realized the error they released an update for it. Surely you remember that? It's also why this stupid lawsuit will be won by Apple.
Except that as soon as Apple realized the error they released an update for it. Surely you remember that? It's also why this stupid lawsuit will be won by Apple.
I agree that it was "totally wrong" in the sense that there was no attention to detail that the iPhone 4 was very much usable at a much lower dB single strengths than previous iPhones (and other cellphones in general) which warranted the change in the bars to accommodate this paradigm in cellphone antenna design. It's not like Apple to forget about these things, which is too bad because I think if people didn't see 1 to 3 drops in bars on their phones — a situation that was resolved by this SW change — the whole antennagate issue may not have happened, which means no free Bumper program for 2 months which means a 2.4¢ increase in my shares.
That's true too. But with over 100 million people owning this phone around the world, you would have expected far more of a scandle if this was a serious problem, and of course, it wasn't.
Indeed. I just think that "hand variation" and indeed iPhone to iPhone variation*, is something that's overlooked when trying to understand why some people swear blind that the problem is serious ("I just have to touch it with one finger and it drops calls!") when most people's experience doesn't bear that out.
* one iPhone 4 will not behave exactly the same as another; every chip that goes inside an iPhone 4 has its own level of statistical variation in performance from one instance of the chip to another. If a user is unlucky enough to get an iPhone 4 whose relevant chips (e.g. RF receive amplifier and transmit power amplifier) are at the low-end of the performance spectrum, they have particularly conductive hands, and use the phone in medium to weak signal areas, then from their point of view the iPhone antenna "problem" will be serious.
It seems to me that we can simply look at sales. What are the most popular phones on the networks? #1 is the 4s. #2 is the 4, and #3 or 4 is the two and a half year old 3GS. All on the smaller side these days
How does it disprove that 3.5" size is a compromise?