26% of Amazon Kindle Fire buyers delaying purchase of Apple's iPad

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 72
    Has there even been any real reviews of the Fire? Like a hands on test for a week of normal usage?



    You would have to be a total idiot to pre-order a version 1 product like that, even if it was from Apple.
  • Reply 22 of 72
    charlitunacharlituna Posts: 7,205member
    I call into question the statistical validity of either survey and of trying to pin them together with some kind of throughput.



    That said, I suspect that some folks that weren't sure they really needed an iPad because they have very limited needs probably have delayed buying one and might try the Kindle Fire first. In the end it doesn't really hurt the iPad numbers since they weren't likely to actually get one since they feel they don't need it. The iPad has been getting something like 80% of tablet sales but how do those sales compare to the world in general. Tablet buyers are probably only like 40% of folks.



    IN the end it's all well and good no matter what they buy. sure Apple might lose 4-5% of their share but because the total is going up, not that their sales are going down. And some of those folks might spend a week with their Fire and hate it and return it for an iPad. Or next time might get an iPad because now that they have dipped in the toes they want to jump in all the way. Or in the meantime the office might go iPad so they end up liking it and get one for home.



    I highly doubt that Apple is worried
  • Reply 23 of 72
    charlitunacharlituna Posts: 7,205member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by minderbinder View Post


    The most obvious option for Apple is probably to keep the iPad 2 at a lower price when the 3 ships.



    IF they do that they won't keep all of them. Just say the 16 GB wifi only. And it won't be due to things like the Kindle Fire. It will be due to things like schools. They will keep said model and knock $100-150 off it as a kids/students model. Heck they might only sell it online even.



    But they won't ever do anything because of the Nook Color, Kindle Fire etc and it's cheap price. Apple doesn't care about the other boys when it comes to how they make their decisions. Unless the other boys are cheating and stealing IP
  • Reply 24 of 72
    It would be interesting to know more about this survey...



    -- the wording of the questions

    -- the ordering of the questions

    -- the weighting of the questions

    -- the margin of error of the results



    How do you determine what someone is not going to buy?



    How do you determine why they are not going to buy it?



    In the case where someone says "I was thinking of buying A, but I am going to buy B instead":



    -- why?

    -- what does that mean?

    -- how do you measure the probability of either?





    Finally, what effect does the imminent Nook Tablet have on the planned purchases of Fire, iPad, etc.?
  • Reply 25 of 72
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by patrickf View Post


    The Fire and Nook tablets will take a bunch of share from Apple. I'm considering one, since I use my iPad primarily for reading. Yeah, I have a keyboard and all that for the iPad, but mostly I just do reading.



    I have tons of games, but don't play them much. I read. I read. I read.



    Amazon and Barnes and Noble will take a good chunk of share from Apple.



    Yes, they are different types of devices, but a lot of people just want to read. The iPad does get heavy after a while.



    Who cares if Android is forked and Amazon has to "maintain" Android. BN, too. So what?



    The Nook is a fine device. The Fire will be a fine device. And the Nook tablet will be a fine device. All will have good sales.



    End of story. Thanks.



    Except, did you see the price of the 7" tablets? Nice. Very nice. Again, Apple will lose share. No one wants to pay $500 to read.



    P



    The only reason to get a Fire/Nook over a iPad (even for reading) is price. In every single way the iPad is better. Unless you are total wimp and you cant hold the iPad but can hold the Fire?



    Once you move away from e-ink, then for reading/eye strain the fire/nook/iPad are equal. In fact I would argue that the iPad is better since you can use iBooks, Nook app or the Kindle App and the larger size is better for some. The Fire is only going to support Kindle/Amazon solutions.
  • Reply 26 of 72
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post


    It would be interesting to know more about this survey...



    -- the wording of the questions



    Q: Would you rather pay a fair amount for a tablet or pay at least 2.5x more for pretty much the same thing?
  • Reply 27 of 72
    jeffdmjeffdm Posts: 12,946member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by stophobophobia View Post


    They're delaying purchase of the IPad 2 until (1) they can return their Kindle Fire once they realize what a piece of crap it is or



    It's a bit much to declare it crap before the market actually sees it.



    Quote:

    (2) they get that long-awaited raise to be able to afford an iPad 2.



    I don't think people in that price bracket gets raises anymore.
  • Reply 28 of 72
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post


    I don't think people in that price bracket gets raises anymore.



    That made me laugh, then immediately made me sad.
  • Reply 29 of 72
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bsenka View Post


    Agreed. I have an iPhone, an iPad, a Macbook, and a 7" Android tablet. Those Apple devices are great at a lot of things, but when I want to read, I use the 7" tablet. If Apple made a 7" iPad, it would sell very well.



    Unserstood. But 10'' are always much better than 7'', especially for reading. They are 200% better and just 30% costlier, on a 50% higher diagonal, so 10'' are on the sweet spot.



    Apple just never, ever go below 10'' ! Also never, ever go below 10 hours usage time ! Also don't think it should be thinner. Just make it LIGHTER and there you'd have the best 'just-reader' !



    Apple needs to get the weight from 600g down to 500g. A magnesium back could save 50g. Latest battery technology could save 20g. Don't see much to save on glass weight, as iPad2 already has it thinner. So LCD and mainboard together have to come up for the remaining 30g to save.



    As components become more and more true high tech, more and more competitors from the Android side will not be able to keep pace.



    Advice to Apple: Make a 500g weighing iPad2s with

    - same screen resolution (it is just enough for 99.9% of all current use cases),

    - same iPad2 housing shape,

    - same CPU,

    - same bettery life.



    Just a slightly better camera and less weight and that would be the holiday shopping season burner. Less weight and better camera would both do for better Facetime experience and they'd stress the point, the Fire completely misses.



    Here are iPad1 weight stats:



    Aluminum back 138 grams

    Battery 148 grams

    LCD 153 grams

    Glass (and frame) 193 grams

    Speaker: 17 grams

    Main board: 21 grams

    Everything else: 27 grams
  • Reply 30 of 72
    Yes. So, to put it more clearly, the question was "Given that you've already decided to buy a Fire, what other devices have you contemplated?" The more interesting question is how many prospective buyers of iPads have delayed or put that decision on hold to wait for the Fire. Or what percentage would choose a Fire over an iPad when presented with that choice. Apparently the Fire didn't come out too well in those comparisons, otherwise Amazon would have reported those. So Apple will sell, what, 26,000 iPads less (or later) if Amazon sells 100,000 Fires. Won't make a dent in iPad sales.
  • Reply 31 of 72
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    Q: Would you rather pay a fair amount for a tablet or pay at least 2.5x more for pretty much the same thing?







    Yeah... I was thinking of buying that Ferrari... but I am going to buy the Ford Fiesta instead...



    ....It'll look better parked in the driveway beside the 2002 Toyota Sienna
  • Reply 32 of 72
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post


    I don't think people in that price bracket gets raises anymore.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    That made me laugh, then immediately made me sad.



    ?why wish for a loaf of bread when you can wish for the grocery store??



    ...but, I agree it is sad!
  • Reply 33 of 72
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by charlituna View Post


    IF they do that they won't keep all of them. Just say the 16 GB wifi only.



    Don't think that the iPhone strategy of keeping last years low memory model as entry point will work with iPads. An iPhone is also an iPod for most owners so many do care a lot about having enough memory. Meanwhile an iPad is much often just at home so you can stream your stuff anyway. And there's no big need to keep a big music collection on an iPad so memory space is not that big a differentiator.



    Also, I think Apple should always try to sell the best iPad it has. If selling a last years iPad on the same margin like the freshest one was possible, then okay, do it. E.g. the iPhone 3GS, although sold much much cheaper, earns Apple the same margins like an iPhone4S. Of course then you can't deny it.
  • Reply 34 of 72
    I cancelled my Amazon Fire because it is "pump and dump", selling it below manufacturing cost. Its a toy, and Amazon already is planning to release a newer model next year. I'll save the $200 and buy the iPad3 soon. You get what you pay for.
  • Reply 35 of 72
    drdoppiodrdoppio Posts: 1,132member
    I am going to buy Kindles for my whole family, 3 each



    None of them delays an iPad purchase
  • Reply 36 of 72
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,471member
    I haven't read the posts yet so I don't know if anyone else has said what I'm going to say.



    The market is in a tizzy over this, and they've got it backwards. What this says is not that 26% of iPad buyers are putting off purchasing iPads. It's 26% of Fire users who were considering buying iPads that may be putting those purchases off.



    What does that mean? How many Fire users were considering, seriously, buying iPads? Not that many I'd bet.
  • Reply 37 of 72
    drdoppiodrdoppio Posts: 1,132member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    ... What this says is not that 26% of iPad buyers are putting off purchasing iPads...



    You're right, clearly not. You can't be an iPad buyer if you haven't bought an iPad. You can't be putting off buying an iPad if you've already bought one. I'd say that none of the iPad buyers are putting off buying iPads.



    Or did they mean iPad1 buyers putting off buying iPad2? Or iPad2 buyers putting off buying iPad3?



  • Reply 38 of 72
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by PTCruiser View Post


    I cancelled my Amazon Fire because it is "pump and dump", selling it below manufacturing cost. Its a toy, and Amazon already is planning to release a newer model next year. I'll save the $200 and buy the iPad3 soon. You get what you pay for.



    The more interesting point is: How many people originally planning to buy a Kindle Fire are now targeting an iPad3 or iPad2s since they heard of Amazon already preparing the successor model.



    A 200$ Kindle Fire sounds a bargain but selling it for 30$ 12 months later, well... that's the kind of business usually done by such people who can only afford a 200$ tablet. Buy cheap and you'll buy twice.



    Last week I sold my mid-2009 MacBook Pro 13'' 2.3GHz for 700? on ebay, just took 1 day, bought for 1000? 27 months ago. Just 300? loss, while a cheap-600?-Windows-Notebook buyer would have lost the same 300?. Wait, my parents bought such a stupid 15'' noname windows notebook for 500?, just 2y ago. Never ever will they get even 200? for that piece of crap. So for the same or even lower cost-of-ownership I got the far better experience.

    Thinking that 'far' is not everbodies business... it's like that and it's good like that.
  • Reply 39 of 72
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    I haven't read the posts yet so I don't know if anyone else has said what I'm going to say.



    The market is in a tizzy over this, and they've got it backwards. What this says is not that 26% of iPad buyers are putting off purchasing iPads. It's 26% of Fire users who were considering buying iPads that may be putting those purchases off.



    What does that mean? How many Fire users were considering, seriously, buying iPads? Not that many I'd bet.



    I think the market is down in general... AAPL about 1.6%



    Of interest to this article:



    - 1.56% AMZN

    + 1.83% BKS (Barnes and Noble)



    But, your point is well taken!
  • Reply 40 of 72
    jeffdmjeffdm Posts: 12,946member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by henniman View Post


    The more interesting point is: How many people originally planning to buy a Kindle Fire are now targeting an iPad3 or iPad2s since they heard of Amazon already preparing the successor model.



    I don't know why this successor model is supposed to be an issue. Any company worth its salt would be working 2-3 generations ahead. This basic fact is not talked about a lot, but it's not a secret either. Johnathan Ive recently mentioned they have three year's worth of product designs they're working on.
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