Judge tosses "iBrick" lawsuit over iOS 4 slowing iPhone 3G

2

Comments

  • Reply 21 of 59
    paul94544paul94544 Posts: 1,027member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Negafox View Post


    The simple fact is that the software usually runs poorly on minimum spec systems, and well, the iPhone 3G was minimum spec for iOS 4. It was her choice to upgrade. Why didn't she downgrade if iOS 4 performed poorly on her phone?



    So now you are saying Apple is just like MS when it claims windows runs on minimum spec systems, BS imho. So now we can't trust apple any more when it makes these claims , just like MS
  • Reply 22 of 59
    am8449am8449 Posts: 392member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post


    Wofford's lawsuit contended that Apple prevented iPhone 3G users upgrading to iOS 4 from downgrading back to iOS 3, purportedly to force them into purchasing the newer iPhone 3GS or iPhone 4.



    Don't know if this case has legal merit or not, but I do agree that it's a pain not to be able to easily downgrade your iOS.



    You have to have first jailbroken your device, then have saved your SHSH blobs, in order to downgrade.
  • Reply 23 of 59
    paul94544paul94544 Posts: 1,027member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jbh0001 View Post


    So this means that anyone can do anything to your hardware via software, and as long as they don't charge you for it, they are not responsible for loss of functionality.



    By that same reasoning, no one can sue anybody that makes a virus or Trojan house, because



    A. They didn't charge you for it, and

    B. You chose to download it, even though you may have done so unwittingly, or had been enticed to by the claimed benefits.



    Nice⸮



    Apple is a big company with lots of money and is part of the establishment and the Judges are on their side, unlike hackers. So nothing has changed, its us against them



    Quote:

    Apple is a system, Neo. That system is our enemy. But when you're inside, you look around, what do you see? Businessmen, teachers, lawyers, carpenters. The very minds of the people we are trying to save. But until we do, these people are still a part of that system, and that makes them our enemy. You have to understand, most of these people are not ready to be unplugged. And many of them are so inured, so hopelessly dependent on the system, that they will fight to protect it.



  • Reply 24 of 59
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    One of the big issues is where did the $5000 come from? Seriously it is a huge amount of money for a free update to a rather cheap device. At best she should have been suing for a reversion to the old OS.



    That being said I was not at all please with Apple and the performance of iOS 4 on the 3G. Apple certainly screwed that one up. However lets face facts here they did resolve the issues with the software on that generation phone. The only other thing you could reasonably expect form them would be a reinstall of the old OS. In my opinon Apple took the right course in making the additional functionality work on the device.



    Yeah it was still slow but then again the 3G never was a barn burner. The important thing was that many of the outstanding bugs where deleted and the really bad performance issues addressed.
  • Reply 25 of 59
    sennensennen Posts: 1,472member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Paul94544 View Post


    Apple is a big company with lots of money and is part of the establishment and the Judges are on their side, unlike hackers. So nothing has changed, its us against them



    Apple is a system, Neo. That system is our enemy. But when you're inside, you look around, what do you see? Businessmen, teachers, lawyers, carpenters. The very minds of the people we are trying to save. But until we do, these people are still a part of that system, and that makes them our enemy. You have to understand, most of these people are not ready to be unplugged. And many of them are so inured, so hopelessly dependent on the system, that they will fight to protect it.



    For goodness sake...
  • Reply 26 of 59
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post


    One of the big issues is where did the $5000 come from?



    Isn't $5k the maximum for small claims court?
  • Reply 27 of 59
    tbelltbell Posts: 3,146member
    The legal system worked exactly like it should. The judge viewed the evidence and dismissed the case. The lawyer bringing the lawsuit likely took the case on contingency. He likely put a lot of time into the matter, and now will not be compensated. The plaintiff will have to pay the cost (e.g. filing fees, etc.).



    Assuming Apple didn't address the matter, the only part I see about the case being frivolous is the amount of damages the person was seeking. You could buy two new iPhones and four years of service for that. Ridiculous.



    If performance really was an issue and Apple offered the upgrade, Apple should either 1) resolve the issues, or 2) offer a way to downgrade.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sflocal View Post


    Good. Now disbar the scumbag attorney for wasting everyone's time and money on a frivolous lawsuit.



  • Reply 28 of 59
    tbelltbell Posts: 3,146member
    Honestly, we don't need tort reform. The system worked like it should A women thought she was wronged. She brought a lawsuit. The judge looked at the evidence and dismissed the case before the case had to go to trial.



    Most State governments already have implemented tort reform. Some States, Michigan being one, have over reached. In Michigan it almost impossible to win a tort lawsuits, and the damages are capped to a point that would meaningless for a company like Apple.



    Moreover, State governments really should be the ones making these rules. Who wants the federal government deciding local matters? Not I.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ljocampo View Post


    I would hope Congress takes a look at tort reform. It's these frivolous lawsuits, in part, that drag our economy down. IMO, this woman should have to pay for all court and lawyer fees involved in her junk lawsuit. Tort reform doesn't mean stopping a real grievance but making sure penalties are enforced in cases like these.



  • Reply 29 of 59
    andysolandysol Posts: 2,506member
    Everyone keeps saying $5k is ridiculous... But let's not discount the fees associated with court and the time to prepare a case and pay an attorney. Even if the attorney were working for a, say, 40% fee (which is always off the gross, THEN you pay court costs). So that "$5k" is more like less than $2,000-$2,500- keep in mind the phone is ~$600. So it's not as outlandish as one might suspect at first glance.
  • Reply 30 of 59
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by StigsHero View Post


    Apple says no. In reality, with third party tools, you can but only the iOS. There's no way to downgrade the radio firmware, which means that at some release, you could find that downgrading iOS breaks the phone functionality. (because of the mis-matched versions)



    What if you restored from a backup of the original OS on the phone? Couldn't you do that?
  • Reply 31 of 59
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by EWTHeckman View Post


    The iOS update is not a "good or service?" This passes for sound legal reasoning these days?



    Not in the same sense as what the law defines it as.



    Basically the consumer protection law that she tried to apply is in regards to you paying for something that doesn't do what was claimed. Like if I sell you a pill that I claim will cause you to lose 10 lbs in a week even if you eat more and exercise less than before. but it does nothing.



    Because iOS 4 was given to her for free the laws don't apply.



    Add to this that Apple never said you could downgrade AND you had to select to apply the upgrade and it probably didn't help her case
  • Reply 32 of 59
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Psych_guy View Post


    What if you restored from a backup of the original OS on the phone? Couldn't you do that?



    Backups are only if your data, not the system software
  • Reply 33 of 59
    iqatedoiqatedo Posts: 1,824member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    If Apple really wanted to stick it to the 3G users all they had to do was not offer an update instead of doing some Doctor Claw evil villian crap by rendering a certain percentage of 3G device unusable. MWHAHAhahahahaha? Sometimes I wish they would just let their old products languish so people can have something real yo bitch and moan amount over this invented crap.



    Autocorrect can be a pain if one is not fully alert to what the text editor is doing, however, yo bitch is too good and perhaps a little Freudian?
  • Reply 34 of 59
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TBell View Post


    If performance really was an issue and Apple offered the upgrade, Apple should either 1) resolve the issues,



    as the article pointed out, they did.
  • Reply 35 of 59
    iqatedoiqatedo Posts: 1,824member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Orlando View Post


    I had a 3G and iOS4 did make it pretty much unusable so this wasn't really a frivolous lawsuit. There was no easy way to downgrade and the result was I bought a new phone earlier than I would otherwise have done. iOS4 should never have been offered on the 3G.



    $5000 is way too much and is simply greed; but I do think Apple has a case to answer.



    It seems that the case was thrown out on a technicality or a series of technicalities, not on the basis of lack of merit. The woman it seems, was given poor advice. Her solicitor should be feeling quite embarrassed, wonder whether the law firm acted for her pro bono? Overall, is the 3G a better device with the latest available update installed?



    All the best.
  • Reply 36 of 59
    This judge was a moron. If Apple won't let people control their own machines and the machines suffer from software made by Apple then the company is at fault. Part of the benefits touted by Apple are that they give out upgrades to their devices. Not allowing somebody to fix their own property by downgrading software is in a way extortion because it forces people to upgrade their phones.



    I'm not a tech guy but I know enough to visit a forum and start asking questions about fixing something that is software related. Sometimes I'll ask about software before I download it. I've learned that not all updates are good, even the ones from Apple.



    Not everybody has come to this conclusion yet. Eventually they will.
  • Reply 37 of 59
    iqatedoiqatedo Posts: 1,824member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Paul94544 View Post


    ...Personally I haven't upgraded my iPad to iOS5 yet because of my distrust of Apple. I probably will soon though.



    I wish my Mac would stop prompting me to upgrade to iOS 5 every time I connect my iPad...



    My experience is that you're safe upgrading. I have just performed the over the air upgrade on my original iPad, all is good. Safari, Mail, iBooks, Pages etc. are all working. (I have done my iPhone 4 too.)
  • Reply 38 of 59
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 15,376moderator
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Andysol View Post


    Everyone keeps saying $5k is ridiculous... But let's not discount the fees associated with court and the time to prepare a case and pay an attorney. Even if the attorney were working for a, say, 40% fee (which is always off the gross, THEN you pay court costs). So that "$5k" is more like less than $2,000-$2,500- keep in mind the phone is ~$600. So it's not as outlandish as one might suspect at first glance.



    The article says $5k for each affected user though, which is pretty much all 3G owners and probably 20-30 million people or so, possibly making for a multi-million dollar lawsuit. Would any other kind be worthwhile?



    I think the lawsuit has some merit, the 3G definitely performed a lot better on version 3 than version 4 of the OS while not really adding significant functionality as they blocked most of the best bits including multi-tasking on the 3G anyway and don't offer a downgrade option. But, they didn't make it unusable, just unpleasant and I don't think it's such a big deal. I don't expect it will ever happen again as the new models have reached a certain performance level so their crime was merely coercing you into a single upgrade for a phone that was 2 years old already, out of contract and in many cases out of warranty.



    Trying to get you to upgrade via unethical practices is not exclusive to Apple and they are within their right to do so. There's no reason why Siri can't be used on iPhone 4 and even 3GS devices, it appears unofficially to work fine but it would be one less reason to buy the new phone. They'll find it harder to do this sort of thing as time goes on.
  • Reply 39 of 59
    nagrommenagromme Posts: 2,834member
    I do think Apple should have held back iOS 4 from 3G owners, or scaled it back even if that meant dual versions and more work for Apple. They messed up, in my view, and I don?t know how 3G owners tolerate it! (I know some who do!)



    That said... $5000? No.
  • Reply 40 of 59
    jragostajragosta Posts: 10,473member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JONOROM View Post


    Based on numerous reports I never did upgrade my old 3G to iOS 4.0+. The lawsuit was legit, IMHO. Especially since you couldn't downgrade your OS.



    Why is that? You can never downgrade? Seems nefarious to me...



    Actually, you can.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jbh0001 View Post


    So this means that anyone can do anything to your hardware via software, and as long as they don't charge you for it, they are not responsible for loss of functionality.



    By that same reasoning, no one can sue anybody that makes a virus or Trojan house, because



    A. They didn't charge you for it, and

    B. You chose to download it, even though you may have done so unwittingly, or had been enticed to by the claimed benefits.



    Nice⸮



    Nonsense, actually. Making and distributing a virus or trojan horse breaks all sorts of laws.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TBell View Post


    The legal system worked exactly like it should. The judge viewed the evidence and dismissed the case. The lawyer bringing the lawsuit likely took the case on contingency. He likely put a lot of time into the matter, and now will not be compensated. The plaintiff will have to pay the cost (e.g. filing fees, etc.).



    Assuming Apple didn't address the matter, the only part I see about the case being frivolous is the amount of damages the person was seeking. You could buy two new iPhones and four years of service for that. Ridiculous.



    If performance really was an issue and Apple offered the upgrade, Apple should either 1) resolve the issues, or 2) offer a way to downgrade.



    Apple DID resolve the issues with 4.1. So by your own admission, the case should never have been brought.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by charlituna View Post


    Backups are only if your data, not the system software



    False.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nagromme View Post


    I do think Apple should have held back iOS 4 from 3G owners, or scaled it back even if that meant dual versions and more work for Apple. They messed up, in my view, and I don?t know how 3G owners tolerate it! (I know some who do!)



    Why? It was an optional upgrade and many people found it useful. And with the 4.1 upgrade, performance was easily acceptable. Even the 4.0 version wasn't that bad - I had a 3G at the time.



    Apple messed up by releasing the 4.0 version for the iPhone 3G, but they fixed it quickly enough.
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