AT&T sees 'challenges' ahead as it plans to sell Nokia Windows Phones in 2012

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 48
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Firefly7475 View Post


    It's not like I don't understand that you're only trolling when you vent like this. I get it, you're angry and you're bitter and you just want to lash out. That's cool, I was easily able to block you so I very rarely need to see any of it.



    But let me just make one point for you to ponder. It doesn't matter if you don't understand design or have terrible taste. If you can't look at those Lumia 800's and at least acknowledge that they are a beautiful example of industrial design then there's something wrong with you, or rather, something missing.



    Some people have no taste...Miller Light sells well. If you think a copy of an iPod/iPhone is brilliant design, that is your choice. Some of us prefer original design and engineering, just like some of us prefer finer beers like Dogfish Head.



    Coming up with something new is hard, copying someone else's work takes no work at all. there was a picture of a blue ipod nano scaled up in the forums a while back, amazing how the Nokia phone looks _exactly_ like it. quite a coincidence.



    By the way, you said you block me yet you are still replying to my posts. Funny how that works....
  • Reply 22 of 48
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ConradJoe View Post


    My problem is that it requires you to buy apps only from the OS manufacturer's store. If you want an app, you won't get it unless M$ will allow you to have it.



    That alone is enough to make me 100% uninterested in getting a Windows Phone.



    LOL. Oh the irony!
  • Reply 23 of 48
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ConradJoe View Post


    My problem is that it requires you to buy apps only from the OS manufacturer's store. If you want an app, you won't get it unless M$ will allow you to have it.



    That alone is enough to make me 100% uninterested in getting a Windows Phone.



    Not to mention they lock the search button to the horrible BING search service. Guess they are afraid of competition and do not allow choice. No one would use BING if it was not forced on them, Google search is so much better.
  • Reply 24 of 48
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    I want that blue Lumia 800. I'll get it from FInland direct if I can't get it in the States.



    Love it hate it, Nokia proves to SAMSUNG that a post-2007 smartphone doesn't have to look like the iPhone to look good. Where are the Samsung defenderz on this thread? The "So Apple thinks it owns the rounded rectangle" trolls when confronted with a smartphone that isn't another rounded rectangle with edge to edge glass? Oops.
  • Reply 25 of 48
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post


    Love it hate it, Nokia proves to SAMSUNG that a post-2007 smartphone doesn't have to look like the iPhone to look good. Where are the Samsung defenderz on this thread? The "So Apple thinks it owns the rounded rectangle" trolls when confronted with a smartphone that isn't another rounded rectangle with edge to edge glass? Oops.



    it isn't a copy of Apples designs? Check this out....http://forums.appleinsider.com/showp...4&postcount=97
  • Reply 26 of 48
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Firefly7475 View Post


    It's not like I don't understand that you're only trolling when you vent like this. I get it, you're angry and you're bitter and you just want to lash out. That's cool, I was easily able to block you so I very rarely need to see any of it.



    But let me just make one point for you to ponder. It doesnt matter if you don't understand design or have terrible taste. If you can't look at those Lumia 800's and at least acknowledge that they are a beautiful example of industrial design then there's something wrong with you, or rather, something missing.



    No need to block bullhead. Opinions can't harm you. You are safe.



    As for what's "beautiful", isn't it a matter of personal taste or one's subjective feelings? I don't know that anyone could apply the label "beautiful" and expect universal agreement on some kind of objective, or at least universal standard for it (without involving biology anyway). I mean, look at fashion. What we thought looked cool in the 60s, 70s, and 80s looks dated today.
  • Reply 27 of 48
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post


    [...] According to a recent study from Appcelerator and IDC, 38 percent of developers are "very interested" in Windows Phone, up from 30 percent last year. When asked the reason for the increase, 48 percent pointed to the Microsoft/Nokia partnership. [...]



    I hear Microsoft was giving away free WP7 handsets if you bought $500 at a Microsoft Store a few weeks ago.

    That's one copy of Office Professional (for Windows) for 1 user and 2 PCs. Or 1 copy of Windows 7 Ultimate plus a printer.

    Add those free WP7 phones to the 90,000 WP7 phones they gave to all Microsoft employees, and they're only at 1.5% now?

    They should have given their employees 2 or 3 WP7 handsets so they could claim bigger market share.



    But seriously, I'm sure the 38% of developers who claim to be "very interested" in Windows Phone have heard that Android malware has spiked 472% since July.

    Microsoft seems to finally be getting a handle on security. Google, on the other hand, only cares about ad impressions.

    And boy does it ever show.
  • Reply 28 of 48
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    Fallacious argument to the extreme. A majority share of the market has nothing to do with Apple's ability I maintain a grow their consumer base. Stopping making up stupid shit!



    Stop making shit up and claiming that I said it. I never claimed Apple needed a "majority share of the market" for any purpose.



    Apple needs a sufficient market share in order to have a first class ecosystem. That ecosystem, in turn, is one factor in growing and maintaining their consumer base. And it is a major factor.



    If you don't understand what is said, please ask for clarification. I sometimes don't insert intermediary steps within what I say, but instead, assume that they are obvious.



    If you can't figure out how X leads to Y, just ask. Or just reread. Or something. Please.
  • Reply 29 of 48
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bullhead View Post


    Not to mention they lock the search button to the horrible BING search service. Guess they are afraid of competition and do not allow choice. No one would use BING if it was not forced on them, Google search is so much better.



    Is it locked? That is exactly the sort of thing many people would discover post-purchase. What a drag.
  • Reply 30 of 48
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ConradJoe View Post


    Stop making shit up and claiming that I said it. I never claimed Apple needed a "majority share of the market" for any purpose.



    Apple needs a sufficient market share in order to have a first class ecosystem. That ecosystem, in turn, is one factor in growing and maintaining their consumer base. And it is a major factor.



    If you don't understand what is said, please ask for clarification. I sometimes don't insert intermediary steps within what I say, but instead, assume that they are obvious.



    If you can't figure out how X leads to Y, just ask. Or just reread. Or something. Please.



    Let me try to put it into simpler terms you can understand. If Apple's primary focus was marketshare and not profit, they would 1) not focus on premium products but instead flood the market with as many products as possible to get as much marketsahre as possible, and, most importantly, 2) wouldn't only create its mobile OS for their own HW, but instead give it away to anyone and everyone that would have it as to increase their marketshare.



    Here's a scenario for you:
    Company A has 1% of the market and takes in 90% of the profit from that market from a market that has 10 billion total users.



    Company 2 has 80% of the market but only takes in 2% of the profit from that market that only has 10 million total users.
    Which one do of these scenarios do you think Apple would rather be in, the one that gets them the most profit or the one that gets the most unit share of the market?



    As you should be able to see Apple cares not for marketshare at the expense of profit share, which they dominate in. That is why your comment "That is why market share is so important to Apple " is complete BS.



    The smartphone market is going to grow and there is a good chance Apple's unit share of that market will eventually decrease, just like it did with the Mac 'PC', but Apple is still the most profitable 'PC" maker in the world with about 35-40% yet only about 5% of the world's PC sales by unit.



    If you can't see that Apple won't give up profit to increase market share then you really need to go back to school.
  • Reply 31 of 48
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    I know a bunch of you think Gruber of Daring Fireball is in the hand of Apple and not at all objective, but read his experience with the Nokia Lumia 800 with WP7.5 and watch Nokia's promo video.
  • Reply 32 of 48
    conradjoeconradjoe Posts: 1,887member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    Let me try to put it into simpler terms you can understand. If Apple's primary focus was marketshare and not profit,



    ...





    If you can't see that Apple won't give up profit to increase market share then you really need to go back to school.





    You started out by saying implicitly that I believed that Apple's primary focus was marketshare. That's where you first went wrong.



    I snipped out everything in the middle and went to your conclusion.



    The conclusion seems to depend on your initial misapprehension about what I said, and develops it into a theory that I believe that Apple would give up profit to increase marketshare.



    Stop making shit up.



    It is important for Apple to maintain a healthy market share in order for Apple to maintain a healthy ecosystem in order to attract and satisfy customers IN ORDER TO MAXIMIZE TOTAL PROFITS.



    FFS.
  • Reply 33 of 48
    jfanningjfanning Posts: 3,398member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bullhead View Post


    it isn't a copy of Apples designs? Check this out....http://forums.appleinsider.com/showp...4&postcount=97



    The only thing in common is the colour, is Apple the only place allowed to make a blue device?
  • Reply 34 of 48
    jfanningjfanning Posts: 3,398member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Jetz View Post


    My problem with Windows Phone is that its tied to MS' offerings. Hotmail is atrocious. It's now my spam account. Bing search sucks outside the USA. And I'm not all that sure, it's great in the USA. Bing Maps is also atrocious. What's the update cycle on that thing? My 5 year old condo in Ottawa doesn't show up, even though the street is on there. And there's no bus schedules for my city either, even though Google has had it for nearly two years now.



    The OS is nice. But MS' services are terrible and being so tied to them is the anchor holding back what would be an otherwise great OS.



    The one nice thing about WP7 though would be Zune Pass. That's an amazing offering that I wish either Apple or Google matched.



    If you don't like Bing Maps, then get a Nokia WP7 device and use Nokia Maps. And will the built in browser not take you to the google page?
  • Reply 35 of 48
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jfanning View Post


    The only thing in common is the colour, is Apple the only place allowed to make a blue device?



    huh? Simply stretch the iPod Nano and you have an almost exact replica of the cloner Nokia Phone. It really is not hard to see even if you have no sense of design
  • Reply 36 of 48
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jfanning View Post


    If you don't like Bing Maps, then get a Nokia WP7 device and use Nokia Maps. And will the built in browser not take you to the google page?



    better yet, simply don't get a Windows Phone like everyone else.
  • Reply 37 of 48
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bullhead View Post


    huh? Simply stretch the iPod Nano and you have an almost exact replica of the cloner Nokia Phone. It really is not hard to see even if you have no sense of design



    The Lumia 800 is no Nano clone. Sure, there are some similarities but this far, far removed from the KIRFs we've seen from Samsung copying the product design, accessories, OS and even icons.



    Windows Phone 7 is unique? and quite good for a modern mobile OS. The physical design does have rolled sides like the Nano (and even the iPod minis that came before it) but that is really where any potential copying ends. The Lumia 800s casing is flat on the front and back, not rolling. The glass is raised and beveled for a more fluid look and feel, which is very unique and comes across great in the demos and images. The ends are slightly pinched like a machine cutting taffy off an assembly line.



    The most you could say is that the Lumia 800 was initially inspired by the Nano, but you couldn't say it's a copy of the Nano.
  • Reply 38 of 48
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post


    As for what's "beautiful", isn't it a matter of personal taste or one's subjective feelings? I don't know that anyone could apply the label "beautiful" and expect universal agreement on some kind of objective, or at least universal standard for it (without involving biology anyway).



    What I'm trying to get at is that even if someone doesn't like it personally, they should still be able to understand what other people see in it.
  • Reply 39 of 48
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Firefly7475 View Post


    What I'm trying to get at is that even if someone doesn't like it personally, they should still be able to understand what other people see in it.



    No, I think there are plenty of people who definitely cannot see beyond their own point of view.
  • Reply 40 of 48
    jfanningjfanning Posts: 3,398member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bullhead View Post


    huh? Simply stretch the iPod Nano and you have an almost exact replica of the cloner Nokia Phone. It really is not hard to see even if you have no sense of design



    So you would need to modify the design of the iPod to get it to look like the Nokia phone? In other words, they are nothing alike?
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