It's not apples and oranges when the two values being compared are exactly the same: time and growth. Custom software, direct competition, and good chums are all pointless.
You're right. IBM has only grown by about 20% in that timeframe. Apple has grown by over 1000%. Apple would have far less employees if they didn't have their retail stores.
... given that all recent macs and any other computers(*) that might include Thunderbolt can be connected to a single connector, waiting to be inserted into *any* portable.
As far as versatiliy goes, the physical matching requirements for a single connector are far less stringent than (and hence superior to) those of a physically matching dock (maybe a perfect fit to just 1 laptop or mobile device).
(*)Great opportunity for the "others", but are there more compelling reasons for "them" to adopt Thunderbolt, than the apparently saw for FireWire?
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM
Same class of product, similar envelope, in similar price ranges, and last I checked, very similar specs, I really don't see why Zenbook is supposed to be a success and Air not. I don't see it as a design copy though, not anywhere near like Samsung's Android devices.
Why the doublespeak? A dock is more constricting, the entire dock has to be physically mated to the computer. With TB, you can have everything that's on the dock as much as 10ft away instead. I don't see the benefit of a dock here. With a TB-based hub, you can at least expect to use it with other classes of computers without any design changes. Apple's TB display shows you can have Firewire ports, USB ports, sound, a camera, a display and more TB ports on one Thunderbolt connector. For anything else, a hub designer can just add a PCIe chip into your hub for any peripheral service that the user might want.
... given that all recent macs and any other computers(*) that might include Thunderbolt can be connected to a single connector, waiting to be inserted into *any* portable.
As far as versatiliy goes, the physical matching requirements for a single connector are far less stringent than (and hence superior to) those of a physically matching dock (maybe a perfect fit to just 1 laptop or mobile device).
(*)Great opportunity for the "others", but are there more compelling reasons for "them" to adopt Thunderbolt, than the apparently saw for FireWire?
What's worse is that the proposed solution strikes me as trying too hard to avoid using Thunderbolt, which is very odd given that Intel is supposed to be a Thunderbolt proponent, given that it's their standard, after all. The special dual connector thing physically passes through all the signals needed to dock, when all that can be more elegantly and flexibly multiplexed over a single Thunderbolt connector. A premium platform isn't where you try this hard to avoid Thunderbolt.
IOW, Intel is saying: Please include kitchen sink. It will help sell ultrabooks.
Yup - because everyone knows the best way to beat Apple is to add features. And checklists! Lots of checklists!
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM
What's worse is that the proposed solution strikes me as trying too hard to avoid using Thunderbolt, which is very odd given that Intel is supposed to be a Thunderbolt proponent, given that it's their standard, after all.
Exactly. A very strange move by Intel. Other than my sarcastic comment above
Still banging that drum? I just don't get it - heck, I bet most people are syncing over wifi now which is even slower than USB...
I'm not, plus when you get a new device pushing 64GB takes a ridiculously long time. Can that even be done over WiFi for a new device? What happens when 128GB is on the iPad in a year or two and 256GB in 5 years? I'm good with TB or USB3.0 for faster charging but I'd think Apple would want to get TB controllers in their iDevices to push the standard as soon as possible.
Plus I use my MBP for charging the device so a faster charge would be better. TB is still supplying more power than USB3.0, much less USB2.0.
PS: I predict a 264ppi Retina Display iPad and a 4" 288ppi iPod Touch will be introduced early next year.
I'm not, plus when you get a new device pushing 64GB takes a ridiculously long time.
One time? Seriously? Ditch USB for TB because of the first sync?
Quote:
Can that even be done over WiFi for a new device?
Yes. And it takes about six hours, which is more than I sleep in an evening. Ask me how I know
Quote:
What happens when 128GB is on the iPad in a year or two and 256GB in 5 years?
Technology will have changed and then it will be USB 3 or TB? Or the next generation Wifi?
Quote:
I'm good with TB or USB3.0 for faster charging but I'd think Apple would want to get TB controllers in their iDevices to push the standard as soon as possible
I just don't track how iDevices would push TB adoption faster. It would more than likely be the original iPods all over again.
With the non-Mac world, you have to get over the ridiculously high hill of "good enough"
Quote:
Plus I use my MBP for charging the device so a faster charge would be better. TB is still supplying more power than USB3.0, much less USB2.0.
Meh - devices with docks that have no problem charging are plentiful and cheap. I'd wager if you aren't already in the minority, you will be. Again, hardly a compelling reason for TB over USB.
Now don't get me wrong, I wouldn't mind if Apple switch to TB. But you and I are not in the mainstream
One time? Seriously? Ditch USB for TB because of the first sync?
[?]
Again, hardly a compelling reason for TB over USB.
Now don't get me wrong, I wouldn't mind if Apple switch to TB. But you and I are not in the mainstream
You make excellent counter-arguments, but note I am not suggesting that Apple replaces USB, but adds the technology that a TB cable could be used for basic syncing and charging.
It is a 30-pin connector that no longer uses the FW pins. On top of that, we should consider that Apple will eventually replace that iPod Dock Connector that has been in use for about 8 years with a smaller connector with their ever-thinning devices. After seeing the iPad 2's connector not be flush with the device I can't help but wonder if that is coming soon, and if it is wouldn't building in support for TB future-proofing the design even though the NAND in iDevices is still under 200Mb/s.
You make excellent counter-arguments, but note I am not suggesting that Apple replaces USB, but adds the technology that a TB cable could be used for basic syncing and charging.
Now that sounds more reasonable, but I have a feeling the TB chipsets are too immature - probably a combination of size, power or heat - if not all three.
And again, as long as the iDevice has USB and Thunderbolt, there will be no incentive to add TB. Variations from competitors increase costs, and in the Wintel side of the house, increasing cost is the only carnal sin.
Which is why there is no innovation to speak of on the PC side, and why you see Intel pushing new laptop designs... but that's another post
Quote:
It is a 30-pin connector that no longer uses the FW pins. On top of that, we should consider that Apple will eventually replace that iPod Dock Connector that has been in use for about 8 years with a smaller connector with their ever-thinning devices.
Even Apple who loves thin would be hard pressed to make a connector thinner than the dock connector that will be durable.
I just don't see the sudden harping on the dock connector by analysts and forum posters. It's ridiculously thin (thinner than the current TB connector) and most importantly, there are a TON of accessories out there that fit into it.
I don't buy the "because it's 8 years old it's going to be replaced" angle.
Quote:
After seeing the iPad 2's connector not be flush with the device I can't help but wonder if that is coming soon, and if it is wouldn't building in support for TB future-proofing the design even though the NAND in iDevices is still under 200Mb/s.
I see it more of a design anomaly than a forecast of things to come.
It is still fun to speculate, though - that's part of why we are here, eh?
Comments
It's not apples and oranges when the two values being compared are exactly the same: time and growth. Custom software, direct competition, and good chums are all pointless.
You're right. IBM has only grown by about 20% in that timeframe. Apple has grown by over 1000%. Apple would have far less employees if they didn't have their retail stores.
Fits in two directions and the magnet pretty much aligns itself when you get it close enough.
Exactly, I can 'plug' it in by just handling my MBP, ie, without even touching the cable.
As far as versatiliy goes, the physical matching requirements for a single connector are far less stringent than (and hence superior to) those of a physically matching dock (maybe a perfect fit to just 1 laptop or mobile device).
(*)Great opportunity for the "others", but are there more compelling reasons for "them" to adopt Thunderbolt, than the apparently saw for FireWire?
Same class of product, similar envelope, in similar price ranges, and last I checked, very similar specs, I really don't see why Zenbook is supposed to be a success and Air not. I don't see it as a design copy though, not anywhere near like Samsung's Android devices.
Why the doublespeak? A dock is more constricting, the entire dock has to be physically mated to the computer. With TB, you can have everything that's on the dock as much as 10ft away instead. I don't see the benefit of a dock here. With a TB-based hub, you can at least expect to use it with other classes of computers without any design changes. Apple's TB display shows you can have Firewire ports, USB ports, sound, a camera, a display and more TB ports on one Thunderbolt connector. For anything else, a hub designer can just add a PCIe chip into your hub for any peripheral service that the user might want.
... given that all recent macs and any other computers(*) that might include Thunderbolt can be connected to a single connector, waiting to be inserted into *any* portable.
As far as versatiliy goes, the physical matching requirements for a single connector are far less stringent than (and hence superior to) those of a physically matching dock (maybe a perfect fit to just 1 laptop or mobile device).
(*)Great opportunity for the "others", but are there more compelling reasons for "them" to adopt Thunderbolt, than the apparently saw for FireWire?
What's worse is that the proposed solution strikes me as trying too hard to avoid using Thunderbolt, which is very odd given that Intel is supposed to be a Thunderbolt proponent, given that it's their standard, after all. The special dual connector thing physically passes through all the signals needed to dock, when all that can be more elegantly and flexibly multiplexed over a single Thunderbolt connector. A premium platform isn't where you try this hard to avoid Thunderbolt.
IOW, Intel is saying: Please include kitchen sink. It will help sell ultrabooks.
Yup - because everyone knows the best way to beat Apple is to add features. And checklists! Lots of checklists!
What's worse is that the proposed solution strikes me as trying too hard to avoid using Thunderbolt, which is very odd given that Intel is supposed to be a Thunderbolt proponent, given that it's their standard, after all.
Exactly. A very strange move by Intel. Other than my sarcastic comment above
As for adoption, that will come when Apple can get a small enough TB controller chip into iDevices.
Still banging that drum? I just don't get it - heck, I bet most people are syncing over wifi now which is even slower than USB...
Still banging that drum? I just don't get it - heck, I bet most people are syncing over wifi now which is even slower than USB...
I'm not, plus when you get a new device pushing 64GB takes a ridiculously long time. Can that even be done over WiFi for a new device? What happens when 128GB is on the iPad in a year or two and 256GB in 5 years? I'm good with TB or USB3.0 for faster charging but I'd think Apple would want to get TB controllers in their iDevices to push the standard as soon as possible.
Plus I use my MBP for charging the device so a faster charge would be better. TB is still supplying more power than USB3.0, much less USB2.0.
PS: I predict a 264ppi Retina Display iPad and a 4" 288ppi iPod Touch will be introduced early next year.
I'm not, plus when you get a new device pushing 64GB takes a ridiculously long time.
One time? Seriously? Ditch USB for TB because of the first sync?
Can that even be done over WiFi for a new device?
Yes. And it takes about six hours, which is more than I sleep in an evening. Ask me how I know
What happens when 128GB is on the iPad in a year or two and 256GB in 5 years?
Technology will have changed and then it will be USB 3 or TB? Or the next generation Wifi?
I'm good with TB or USB3.0 for faster charging but I'd think Apple would want to get TB controllers in their iDevices to push the standard as soon as possible
I just don't track how iDevices would push TB adoption faster. It would more than likely be the original iPods all over again.
With the non-Mac world, you have to get over the ridiculously high hill of "good enough"
Plus I use my MBP for charging the device so a faster charge would be better. TB is still supplying more power than USB3.0, much less USB2.0.
Meh - devices with docks that have no problem charging are plentiful and cheap. I'd wager if you aren't already in the minority, you will be. Again, hardly a compelling reason for TB over USB.
Now don't get me wrong, I wouldn't mind if Apple switch to TB. But you and I are not in the mainstream
One time? Seriously? Ditch USB for TB because of the first sync?
[?]
Again, hardly a compelling reason for TB over USB.
Now don't get me wrong, I wouldn't mind if Apple switch to TB. But you and I are not in the mainstream
You make excellent counter-arguments, but note I am not suggesting that Apple replaces USB, but adds the technology that a TB cable could be used for basic syncing and charging.
It is a 30-pin connector that no longer uses the FW pins. On top of that, we should consider that Apple will eventually replace that iPod Dock Connector that has been in use for about 8 years with a smaller connector with their ever-thinning devices. After seeing the iPad 2's connector not be flush with the device I can't help but wonder if that is coming soon, and if it is wouldn't building in support for TB future-proofing the design even though the NAND in iDevices is still under 200Mb/s.
You make excellent counter-arguments, but note I am not suggesting that Apple replaces USB, but adds the technology that a TB cable could be used for basic syncing and charging.
Now that sounds more reasonable, but I have a feeling the TB chipsets are too immature - probably a combination of size, power or heat - if not all three.
And again, as long as the iDevice has USB and Thunderbolt, there will be no incentive to add TB. Variations from competitors increase costs, and in the Wintel side of the house, increasing cost is the only carnal sin.
Which is why there is no innovation to speak of on the PC side, and why you see Intel pushing new laptop designs... but that's another post
It is a 30-pin connector that no longer uses the FW pins. On top of that, we should consider that Apple will eventually replace that iPod Dock Connector that has been in use for about 8 years with a smaller connector with their ever-thinning devices.
Even Apple who loves thin would be hard pressed to make a connector thinner than the dock connector that will be durable.
I just don't see the sudden harping on the dock connector by analysts and forum posters. It's ridiculously thin (thinner than the current TB connector) and most importantly, there are a TON of accessories out there that fit into it.
I don't buy the "because it's 8 years old it's going to be replaced" angle.
After seeing the iPad 2's connector not be flush with the device I can't help but wonder if that is coming soon, and if it is wouldn't building in support for TB future-proofing the design even though the NAND in iDevices is still under 200Mb/s.
It is still fun to speculate, though - that's part of why we are here, eh?