MTA tells New York to 'bring it on' & investigate Apple's Grand Central lease

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Comments

  • Reply 41 of 50
    freerangefreerange Posts: 1,589member
    Bean counters. And politicians to boot. The worst kind.
  • Reply 42 of 50
    freerangefreerange Posts: 1,589member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ChrisNH View Post


    The popular wisdom is that a rising tide floats all boats. That is to say, the new Apple Store will increase business for everyone. Not necessarily. I worked at the Pheasant Lane store in Nashua, NH and it is a booming success (in part, due to its border location adjacent to Massachusetts...that would be 6.25% sales tax Massachusetts). So with New Hampshire being tax-free, we get the traffic. But, other stores in the mall...even the one right across from ours...don't see any bump in business because of proximity to Apple. In other words, no one says, "Now that I got my iPad, I think I'll go to that store right across the way to buy a whacked-out oil painting." Doesn't work that way. I applaud Apple for playing the 'Everybody will Benefit!' card, even though there's no empirical proof that the other stores will do 'better' with an Apple Store in the vicinity.



    My $0.02 based on my own observations.



    Nonsense. Increased traffic, in general, brings increased sales. Your "observations" are incredibly flawed unless the other stores are just garbage.
  • Reply 43 of 50
    nvidia2008nvidia2008 Posts: 9,262member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ppartekim View Post


    MTA had me at quadruple rent over previous tenant.



    Ah, the New York subway. On my first visit to New York, one day I suddenly found myself walking in the wrong direction against a horde of commuters.



    Very "professionally", a young African American man on a collision course with myself (or is it the other way round?) simply held me by my shoulders and efficiently slid me to the side... Without even breaking his stride. The day was saved, no commuters were affected in their daily grind, and I had my brush with "gritty" New York City and came out intact.
  • Reply 44 of 50
    jragostajragosta Posts: 10,473member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ChrisNH View Post


    The popular wisdom is that a rising tide floats all boats. That is to say, the new Apple Store will increase business for everyone. Not necessarily. I worked at the Pheasant Lane store in Nashua, NH and it is a booming success (in part, due to its border location adjacent to Massachusetts...that would be 6.25% sales tax Massachusetts). So with New Hampshire being tax-free, we get the traffic. But, other stores in the mall...even the one right across from ours...don't see any bump in business because of proximity to Apple. In other words, no one says, "Now that I got my iPad, I think I'll go to that store right across the way to buy a whacked-out oil painting." Doesn't work that way. I applaud Apple for playing the 'Everybody will Benefit!' card, even though there's no empirical proof that the other stores will do 'better' with an Apple Store in the vicinity.



    My $0.02 based on my own observations.



    Do you have access to the sales figures from the surrounding stores? Now, do you have access to sales figures for nearby stores that do NOT have an Apple Store in their mall? Unless you have all that information - AND the ability to interpret it - then you have no basis for your claim.



    Retail is fairly well understood and the evidence is quite clear. A large, upscale magnet store does tend to increase the sales of the surrounding store.
  • Reply 45 of 50
    zoetmbzoetmb Posts: 2,473member
    [QUOTE=elroth;1999560]
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by zoetmb View Post


    The fact remains regardless of the actual motives of the politicians involved is that $60/sq ft for Manhattan retail in a prime location is absurdly low regardless of the benefit of having Apple in that space. Having said that, the $15/sq ft that the restaurant was paying borders on criminal and the politicians are hypocritical for not having investigated that.



    If you would actually read the story, Apple is paying $180 per square foot for the life of the contract, though some of that is not directly rent, but installing new elevators (I believe in the terminal, not within the Apple Store), and in buying out the restaurant (which MTA has to do if it wants a replacement tenant paing 4x more rent).



    Nobody was paing $15 a square foot for rent.



    I did read the story. Apple is not paying $180/sq ft. The MTA claims that Apple is paying the equivalent of $180 per sq ft because of the other investments. In the end, the MTA is getting $60 sq/ft and they claim that's 4x the previous rent, so Metrazur was indeed paying $15/sq ft. If that's not the case, then the MTA doesn't know how to write an intelligent, clear response. But even if I'm wrong, the $45 sq/ft that you believe Metrazur was paying for the space was still way below market rates.
  • Reply 46 of 50
    zoetmbzoetmb Posts: 2,473member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by FreeRange View Post


    Nonsense. Increased traffic, in general, brings increased sales. Your "observations" are incredibly flawed unless the other stores are just garbage.



    In only the broadest terms. The fact is that there are certain stores that any given single person is never going to walk into. I, for example, am never going to walk into 99% of the stores in any given shopping mall under any circumstances.



    The other issue is that when you have a destination store like Apple, if someone buys something there, there is a good chance that Apple has taken all the money that they're going to spend, since (aside from accessories like iPhone cases), the products are expensive. How many people do you think get a new phone, Pad or computer in the Apple Store in a mall and then say, "Oh, while I'm here I think I'll buy some jewelry" or "I also need to buy some shoes." Maybe the pretzel vendor gets a sale.



    What other stores might benefit from are the people who go to the Apple store, aren't ready to buy yet and then spend additional time perusing the mall. Those are the people most likely to spend money on something else.



    There's a shopping mall in Queens, NY that at one time (and even though it was a crappy mall) had the highest revenue per square foot of any shopping mall in the U.S. (even more than the Mall of America). So they tripled the size of the mall. Total sales only went up slightly. Sales per sq/ft went way down. Why? They're basically splitting the same dollars over more stores.



    Next time you're in the mall, look for people carrying Apple bags/products. See if they're carrying bags from any other stores. My bet is that you see that less than 5% of the time.



    Of course all this is anecdotal and can't be proven either way unless one can demonstrate that Apple moved into a location, sales went up for the nearby stores, then Apple moved to a different location in the mall and sales went down for those stores. Even that wouldn't be solid proof because of the vagaries of the economy and consumer spending.
  • Reply 47 of 50
    docno42docno42 Posts: 3,313member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post


    "This is the best possible deal for the MTA," the agency said. "When all of the costs are included, Apple is paying more than $180 per square foot over the ten-year lease. As the competitive bidding process revealed, there are no other uses for this space that would generate the same revenue for the MTA given the up-front costs and limitations."



    Good for the MTA! It's about time someone takes on the posturing politicians and bombastic news media with facts instead of ignorant and self-serving rhetoric.



    If I lived in New York I'd be demanding to know why the comptroller is an ignorant idiot wasting taxpayer dollars by being swayed by ill-informed news stories.
  • Reply 48 of 50
    docno42docno42 Posts: 3,313member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by zoetmb View Post


    The fact remains regardless of the actual motives of the politicians involved is that $60/sq ft for Manhattan retail in a prime location is absurdly low regardless of the benefit of having Apple in that space.



    Don't quit your day job, or ever try to run your own business. Your inability to grasp interrelated concepts will doom you to failure. Your best bet is to continue working for someone else who can successfully track complex concepts and provide employment for you.



    Quote:

    But I can also see the Controller's position: Why is a company as large and profitable as Apple getting public space for a very cheap rate



    Completely irrelevant to the transaction - except for those who have idiotic and twisted ideas of "fair"



    Did you see the word "competitive" in the MTA response? Do you really think they would've responding so forcefully if they didn't have everything covered?



    Then again we really aren't interested in dealing in facts - just feelings like "the evil corporation should pay more because they have plenty of profits and are just being greedy bastards by not sharing for no particular reason but to be good guys". Good grief - what claptrap!



    Quote:

    If Microsoft was building the store instead of Apple, would you still be criticizing the investigation?



    If they were the highest bidder like Apple, nope. I do know if I were a tenant in GCS I wouldnt be as happy since MS stores generate a fraction of the volume of traffic as Apple stores. Indeed, no other retailer brings the traffic Apple does. The existing tenants just got a huge windfall - until their leases are up. They will more than likely go up due to he increased benefit of being in the space. What a concept - as value increases, so does the cost!



    But I'm sure that will also try to be spun by those completely ignorant of how complex things like retail real estate work but think that by looking at one variable in the transaction they are qualified to pontificate



    Quote:

    Although Apple won't do this, one thing I think they should do is to provide free WiFi throughout the Terminal (maybe not down to the track level, but everywhere else.) At least the MTA can then also say that there's a public benefit.



    Why Apple and not another tenant? Just because they are successfull they should have to give out free stuff?!? Amazing. I'll be shocked if America survives another 20 years with this idiotic "thinking".
  • Reply 49 of 50
    docno42docno42 Posts: 3,313member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


    But the actual number is irrelevant. MTA got the best deal that they could - since there were no other bidders. Apple got a good deal, too. How is that criminal?



    it was worse than criminal - it wasn't fair



    Because "fairness" is all that matters
  • Reply 50 of 50
    docno42docno42 Posts: 3,313member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by zoetmb View Post


    But even if I'm wrong, the $45 sq/ft that you believe Metrazur was paying for the space was still way below market rates.



    "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."
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