HP says it will build new webOS powered tablets by 2013

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  • Reply 61 of 81
    malaxmalax Posts: 1,598member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by iVlad View Post


    We seriously do need more choice than iOS and Android. Microsoft, wake up, wake up! You snoozed way too many times.



    We do? I can't see the market supporting 4+ platforms in the long run. Developers don't want to publish 4+ versions of every app and consumers don't want to be locked into an also-ran platform. Things will shake out.
  • Reply 62 of 81
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TomMcIn View Post


    2013 is a lifetime away in the tablet business. The rest of the systems would have to fall flat on their faces for a new product to stand a chance of success starting in 2013.



    Exactly what I was thinking. It comes off more as desperation than anything. Sure, this product line failed and we dumped a billion dollars into it - but maybe we'll have something in another two years! Leadership lately seems quite poor at HP.



    OK HP, Touchpad vs. iPad 3 and 4. Go!
  • Reply 63 of 81
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


    They spent months debating on focusing on Web or OS? but they couldn't figure out how to do both at the same time.



    Ha!



    HP has some serious leadership problems at the top. They spend all this money acquiring Palm, develop a pretty nice looking tablet, Cancel it faster than you can say "KIN", Announce plans to divest their hardware business, fire their CEO, undergo regime change, suck the hardware business back in, and then (presumably) try to find a buyer for webOS (which has failed two companies now), failing that, they go open source. I would not be surprised if they flip flopped tomorrow. Watching an American success story like HP flounder like that is not inspiring, and it reminds me that Apple is one bad CEO away from a return to the Spindler/Amelio days.
  • Reply 64 of 81
    There's nothing worse than a wrong decision. Except indecision.
  • Reply 65 of 81
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post


    I think you are right...



    And, I believe it will be amajor problem for MS -- as they will not have a viable ARM tablet offering in 2012. Likely, they are hoping for an Intel tablet by 2013.



    In 2013 the iPad4 will wipe the floor (hey that rhymes!) with any of these half-assed competitors. Honeycomb and Ice Cream Sandwich doesn't seem to have stormed the charts like Android for smartphones has. Windows8 on ARM/x86 will be a dog's breakfast. Bill Gates and Ballmer need to step down ASAP if they want to have any hope of succeeding outside PC desktops. Windows Phone is still barely breaking through from the outskirts. Personally, Microsoft's best hope is the Xbox360 team just taking over, well, the whole consumer side of Microsoft. Anyone with an Xbox360 (eg. myself, having just recently got into it) knows it is the closest Apple-like experience and provides the closed software-hardware platform necessary for a decent modern consumer experience.



    What a legacy. We could see four years of iPad without any decent competition. 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013. *Tearing up a bit here*. Damnit Steve, you left us to early! Look at all these other bozos grasp at thin air (yes, not even straws)... Look at Rubinstein, for all his talent, flounder, without your tutelage! Every now and then I fire up AppleInsider and it hits me that Steve is not alive.
  • Reply 66 of 81
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post


    Ha!



    HP has some serious leadership problems at the top. They spend all this money acquiring Palm, develop a pretty nice looking tablet, Cancel it faster than you can say "KIN", Announce plans to divest their hardware business, fire their CEO, undergo regime change, suck the hardware business back in, and then (presumably) try to find a buyer for webOS (which has failed two companies now), failing that, they go open source. I would not be surprised if they flip flopped tomorrow. Watching an American success story like HP flounder like that is not inspiring, and it reminds me that Apple is one bad CEO away from a return to the Spindler/Amelio days.



    Indeed. What is more disturbing is that this seems to be the trend among the large North American tech companies. Adobe, HP, Dell, AMD, Intel (yes), Microsoft, RIM, the list goes on and on.



    What the hell happened?
  • Reply 67 of 81
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


    For a tablet I can see WebOS gaining traction where Android can't, but not in the smartphone sector. Still, overall it looks like a rocky road for Android and WebOS in the tablet market. I wouldn't back either horse.



    And 2013? Apple will definitely have HiDPI iPads in 2013 and possibly be so entrenched with another iPod-like dominance that HP will scrap will any WebOS tablets long before then.



    They can gain traction in the smartphone sector, but they need to create a league of followers first. One thing about WebOS is it's kind of a gateway drug. Gives you a taste of something great. If they could create first fully feature phones, thats pretty much a smartphone that doesn't require an expensive data plan (maybe work with a carrier, like Sprint, and get prices down). Then target people with dumb phone and feature phones. Then also create more powerful smart phones, so when the ones addicted to the WebOS feature phones they will have something WebOS to go to.
  • Reply 68 of 81
    IMHO, this whole WebOS episode is nothing but an expensive distraction for HP. In 2 years the market will still be dominated by iOS and maybe Android or M$. Today, HP makes the majority of it's profits selling 'big iron' and services to corporations. Minus the $$$ they make on printer consumables, HP has been only marginally profitable with their Consumer-based products. WebOS would have sunken them deeper into that whole because they have to carry all of the R&D costs. With Windoze 8 on tablets they at least have a shot at profitability. Who knows? Perhaps with her consumer packaged goods background Meg can turn the ship around. My guess is she has 18-24 months or HP will again be looking for a new CEO.



    WebOS was dead before HP bought it. Another example of good technology married to a poor business model and terrible execution.
  • Reply 69 of 81
    iqatedoiqatedo Posts: 1,606member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post


    There's nothing worse than a wrong decision. Except indecision.



    I used to be indecisive, however... now I'm not so sure. \
  • Reply 70 of 81
    iqatedoiqatedo Posts: 1,606member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post


    Indeed. What is more disturbing is that this seems to be the trend among the large North American tech companies. Adobe, HP, Dell, AMD, Intel (yes), Microsoft, RIM, the list goes on and on.



    What the hell happened?



    In respect of HP, they simply missed the personal computer revolution. HP was best placed to own this market, it had excellent if not visionary*, leadership, technical brilliance, a competent software capability and before-its-time manufacturing capability.



    I believe that what is now Agilent should have kept the HP name, which is more in line with the company's original business and today's HP some other name, especially after absorbing Compac. This way at least, the original name would today retain its stellar reputation.



    * Of course, HP under Hewlett and Packard was extraordinarily visionary but in this context...
  • Reply 71 of 81
    This was a monumental "non-decision."



    From a financial standpoint, HP certainly can afford to keep the hundred or so engineers and developers it has in its WebOS group working. The $20 million or so a year that would cost is nothing to a company of HP's size. It also has the beneficial effect of letting HP NOT write off the entire billion dollar investment they made in Palm right away. And who knows, maybe those hundred engineers might come up with something worthwhile.



    But webOS is, if not actually clinically dead, on serious life support. Talking about shipping tablets running it in 2013 is Meg Whitman throwing a bone to HP employees, shareholders, the tech press and whatever webOS fanboys there might be.



    As has been stated before: There isn't a "tablet market" - there's a market for iPads. There is also a market for "not-made-by-Apple iPads" - the "Great White Hope" of the mobile computing world. As we all know, there is a sizable group of people with a psychological hatred of Apple, and they'll gladly seize upon any opportunity to buy the first half-way decent "non-Apple" tablet.



    But catering to that market is a fundamentally losing strategy. Its a negative one, and such strategies never work.



    What's a "negative" strategy? It's an essentially reactive way of product design and marketing. The iPad doesn't support Flash and side-loaded applications? Great, we'll make a tablet that DOES run Flash, and lets you install whatever. You end up with a sluggish POS like the Xoom, and an App market thats a hideous wasteland. And while your engineers are busy trying to get Flash (an outdated video container from the 1990s) to run on your tablet, Apple is busy developing iCloud and Siri.
  • Reply 72 of 81
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Drew63 View Post


    As has been stated before: There isn't a "tablet market" - there's a market for iPads. There is also a market for "not-made-by-Apple iPads" - the "Great White Hope" of the mobile computing world. As we all know, there is a sizable group of people with a psychological hatred of Apple, and they'll gladly seize upon any opportunity to buy the first half-way decent "non-Apple" tablet.




    It seems to me that Apple is so way ahead with the iPad, as a versatile tablet, that the only possible strategy to compete with it is to propose limited purpose tablets (e.g. electronic book only). Any other attempt of frontal confrontation with Apple will fail. Apple is no longer the relatively small company it used to be , unable to mass produce & get economies of scale. They cumulate the advantage of having great products with the one of being capable of massive, cost effective production, not to mention their unique ecosystem.
  • Reply 73 of 81
    cmvsmcmvsm Posts: 204member
    Better late to the party than never? Possible, but not probable.



    HP sounds like they are giving the Android platform time to turn into the abomination of what is now Windows Mobile with its implosion of an open source platform, pick up the baton, and compete with WebOS.



    The outcome will likely be the same, as they are just moving the starting point back to square one, and Apple's iOS infrastructure will have grown to an insurmountable beast, especially with the tv plans on the horizon, and possible replacement to OSX on desk and laptops. Developers will be falling all over themselves to wash themselves in the iOS money stream, and will pay little attention to HP's Poindexter of an OS sitting in the corner.
  • Reply 74 of 81
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by island hermit View Post


    As others have said in the past... there isn't really a tablet market, but there is an iPad market.



    Steve had the vision to see what people would want and turned it into reality... the other manufacturers haven't a bloody clue what the market wants and end up with tablets that have no appeal to the mass market and/or copies of Apple's offerings but without the stuffing (plus, for the most part, they don't work that well).



    Yes... I know it's weird to reply to your own post... but I had an addendum (and you all view me as brilliant so I know you'll be glad that I extended this comment).



    I was just reading about Lenovo's latest Thinkpad tablet offering. They are pitching it to the "serious" enterprise customer. Why is it considered "serious". Well, according to Lenovo it's because it has all sorts of ports, sd card storage, a stylus pen, supports flash... etc. etc. etc.



    Lenovo is trying the kitchen sink approach... but it will never sell in the millions, imho. Why? well, it doesn't have Office for one. Without the ability to run Office I think that the majority of customers would just view the Thinkpad tablet as a fatter, heavier iPad.



    ... but it does run flash.



    Keep watching Lenovo, Meg. That should tell you everything you need to know.
  • Reply 75 of 81
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by malax View Post


    We do? I can't see the market supporting 4+ platforms in the long run.







    Why? Apple is raking in the big bucks with only ab out 5% of the market. There's plenty of room for other companies to make similar boatloads of cash with under 25% of the market.
  • Reply 76 of 81
    I would guess HP will be able to compete with the iPad 2 by 2013. The problem for them is that Apple will be ready to release iPad 4 which will still be far superior to HP's 2013 attempt. I would be so frustrated if I were HP. By all standards they have lost the "game" and have little hope of even competing anymore. Time for them to focus on a new project and surrender to Apple on this one.
  • Reply 77 of 81
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by IQatEdo View Post


    In respect of HP, they simply missed the personal computer revolution.



    If being the biggest personal computer manufacturer in the history of the world = missing the personal computer revolution, then you are correct, sir.
  • Reply 78 of 81
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post


    Indeed. What is more disturbing is that this seems to be the trend among the large North American tech companies. Adobe, HP, Dell, AMD, Intel (yes), Microsoft, RIM, the list goes on and on.



    What the hell happened?



    Startup companies go through a lifecycle. The people who start the company eventually leave, taking a largely misunderstood and unappreciated skillset with them (the ability to innovate), and the resulting leadership has a different mindset and skillset, which works for a while, but over time, a company without its innovators becomes stale. I can see this pattern in Apple after Steve left, and Apple began to decline, mostly because the Mac got stale, and the marketing message got extremely muddled. Apple also had severe problem executing and focusing, which usually indicates poor leadership. If you're interested, there's a book called The Innovator's DNA which describes this pattern. The book is about the innovator's skills and how to build up those skills.



    If the book is correct, then someone needs to fill the innovator's role at Apple so they can continue their rate of growth and industry disruption, and if that person isn't a leader, then Apple's leadership need to recognize and fast track those people so that they can start to make a real difference going into the next decade.
  • Reply 79 of 81
    Obviously tablets are not important.



    HP is prepared to wait for Windows 8 and it does not appear to matter to Meg whether the WEB-OS tablet is released in 2012 or 2013.



    I think she is just saying what we want to hear.



    There was no talk of this yesterday when HP Opensourced WEB/OS. Today's statement is just a bet each way.



    I don't believe it. HP would not be able to build acceptable hardware. They haven't done it for years. All the hardware design for consumer goods is outsourced.
  • Reply 80 of 81
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nagromme View Post


    ?Web OS is better than Windows Metro, or we obviously wouldn?t bother with it, but we?ll ship Windows Metro next year anyway, and then switch to the real deal after a bunch of people have bought the stopgap we want to abandon later!?



    Companies can support more then one OS. You know, Sammy has Android, Windows Phone, it's own OS and soon to be Tizen. HTC has Windows Phone and Android. LG has Windows Phone and Android. You don't have to be all in, since people buying Windows Tablets are going to be different then people buying WebOS tablets.



    What this tells me isn't that HP is waffling. It isn't WebOS had no offers on the table. It tells me HP spent months deciding if Android was the right "second OS" that Meg wanted, and was quoted saying before this announcement, that "HP needs another OS" (source). HP surely looked at the state of Android, the fragmentation and looked at the numbers -- saw that TouchPads sold more then any one Android tablet this year -- and said WebOS has a better chance of being that second OS. So Windows 8 might be the focus, but it wouldn't be hard to make an awesome Windows 8 tablet and port WebOS to it in 2013.



    And remember, the people who designed the TouchPad are gone. So I would bet that the people who will design the HP WebOS tablets will be the same who is designing Windows 8 tablets.
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