Poor reading comprehension is hindering your argument. I didn't say that you said Apple is a patent troll, but somehow you discerned that. Try to focus.
I also didn't say that since Apple invented the market for 'real' smartphones and tablets that no one should play. I do think that if someone wants to enter into the new marketplace that Apple created, they should be able to do it without blatantly copying Apple's patented designs and workings. As my example I used before, Apple patented the bounce back when over scrolling. Why did Google need to copy that when designing the workings of Android apart from just duplication and not innovating?
And by the way, you've still not answered my question. I asked for one obvious example of a 'patent troll' stifling innovation. That was your main argument against them. Let's see an example to back up your claim, or was that just something you pulled out of thin air?
The fact that you think Google's Android includes any sort of bounce back shows to me that you really know nothing about Android and worse your entire understanding of these cases is probably wrong.
Apple and the kid had a deal in play but Apple decided that it didn't like the deal being so much like the deal it had with others and asked for special treatment...the kid then said no, this isn't right...Apple went ahead and used the kids property even after the deal was deemed wrong by the kid...the kid then sued.
Is a lot different than going after a Spanish tablet maker.
Your analogy is all wrong. Motorola is like a kid who gave up its property for all to use on fair and non discriminatory terms. Legally it has no right to take it's property back. The kid then got jealous of the popular new kid named Apple and wanted to discriminate against the pretty new kid by forcing it to pay a toll nobody else has to pay. So, since the kid chose to discriminate against Apple, Apple decided to keep using the property that it had a legal right to do. Just because the kid turned into a bully and didn't honor its commitments, doesn't mean Apple should have to suffer.
Instead, like when Apple had to deal with that bully Nokia, Apple is setting money aside that it is properly accounting for and that it intends to give to the kid when the kid decides to honor its original commitment to the community.
It appears Apple was a more than willing member. They're even on the speakers list for the recent IP getaway weekend thrown by Digitude and backer Altitude.
Note too that Nokia is again targeted, just months after all the lawsuits between Apple and them were supposedly settled. Is that going to be enough for Microsoft to modify their somewhat passive support for Apple's tactics?
Yes, and not too long after Nokia settled its lawsuit with Apple it transfers a couple thousand of its patents to Mosiad, a company that does the same thing as Digitude. Nokia made a public statement that those patents are not covered by the deal Apple and Nokia made. I wonder why Nokia would say that? So, what do you know, soon after Apple makes the same arrangement. If I recall, Nokia struck first last time.
Yes, and not too long after Nokia settled its lawsuit with Apple it transfers a couple thousand of its patents to Mosiad, a company that does the same thing as Digitude. Nokia made a public statement that those patents are not covered by the deal Apple and Nokia made.
I missed that one. Have you got a link to the statement? Not at all saying it wasn't claimed, just curious about the context and what was actually said since I wasn't familiar with it.
So not only do you think competition is a bad thing, but you also advocate genocide?
Competing unfairly is a bad thing. Competition is what Microsoft is attempting to do. Namely bringing its own competing product to market that it developed itself from the ground up. Competing fairly is not taking another's ideas and then trying to undercut the creator of those ideas in the market by offering a slightly altered replicate of it's product. It is a lot easier for HTC and Samsung to just take an iPhone apart and copy it then it was for Apple to spend the hundreds of millions in research and development costs to bring the same product to market. It is also easier for Samsung and HTC to undercut Apple's pricing when they don't have to pay that research cost. Further, Apple makes money by being original. It doesn't want people copying.
So, I have no problem with Android being wiped off the face of the Earth. There will be competition. Microsoft's Windows Phone might be slow to catch up, but it is shaping up. It will gain traction especially if Microsoft does what it is starting to do and leverage the X-Box platform. Moreover, that will be good for the market. Apple isn't going to go to into a legal battle with Microsoft, and Microsoft indemnifies it's partners. So, Apple and all the competing hardware manufacturers will get to focus on making products, and not spend so much money on lawyers the cost of which gets passed off to consumers.
Apple honestly is Android's smallest problem. Oracle is what Google is worrying about the most. With Oracle holding emails that explicitly say Google choose to rip Java off, Google is going to be paying some big dollars in licensing fees to keep Android going. Either Google will have to charge, like Microsoft does for the OS, or it will have to eat the cost itself.
I missed that one. Have you got a link to the statement? Not at all saying it wasn't claimed, just curious about the context and what was actually said since I wasn't familiar with it.
I am not going to try and find the original article when the news first broke, but here is something. My point is that Nokia did the same thing Apple did, and it has publicly acknowledged that it doesn't view the patents to be part of the settlement with Apple. Again, this move by Apple is 1) not original, and 2) is smart.
I am not going to try and find the original article when the news first broke, but here is something.
Thanks, that helps. So then as a personal opinion are you expecting MOSAID (as an agent for Nokia) to now sue Apple just as Digitude (as agent for Apple) is suing Nokia?
This is a day for all True Apple Fans to hang their heads in shame.
This is not the kind of company that many fell in love with back in the day, but a wholly different sort of a beast. Indeed, it is exaclty the type of misadventuring corporate behemoth that Steve and Woz HATED back when they decided to create something for "the rest of us".
Did Steve want his legacy to practice questionable business ethics? Did Woz want his to be a gun runner for patent trolls?
Maybe? But not likely.
Really, you mean like when Apple got into a ten year legal battle with Microsoft over the Mac for Microsoft ripping off the Mac OS? Apple's lawyer are adjusting to the tactics of its opponents. Plain and simple.
It's an inflammatory, meaningless term and implies that they did something wrong.
There is a difference between legally and morally wrong. If you want insight into the difference, ask Joe Paterno who got the shaft at Penn State for following the law. Martin Luther King is a good reference to explain the difference to you as well.
Thanks, that helps. So then as a personal opinion are you expecting MOSAID (as an agent for Nokia) to now sue Apple just as Digitude (as agent for Apple) is suing Nokia?
No problem. I wouldn't' be surprised if Mosaid sues Apple at some point. I, however, would not expect it to occur until after Apple releases LTE phones. My understanding is the patents are largely FRAND patents that cover LTE. That is assuming Apple can't get reasonable licensing terms like was the case the last time.
Moreover, that will be good for the market. Apple isn't going to go to into a legal battle with Microsoft, and Microsoft indemnifies it's partners. So, Apple and all the competing hardware manufacturers will get to focus on making products, and not spend so much money on lawyers the cost of which gets passed off to consumers.
I suppose that will depend on conversations between Apple and Microsoft on how their agent's (Digitude) suit against Nokia is viewed. Perhaps they both continue to see Android as the bigger obstacle for now. Perhaps not.
From appearances Apple did not want it's name associated with Digitude while Nokia didn't have the same issue with MOSAID. Now that the connection is out in the open it's going to be impossible for Apple to make denials. What Digitude does from here on out is going to be associated with Apple.
No problem. I wouldn't' be surprised if Mosaid sues Apple at some point. I, however, would not expect it to occur until after Apple releases LTE phones. My understanding is the patents are largely FRAND patents that cover LTE. That is assuming Apple can't get reasonable licensing terms like was the case the last time.
Interesting perspective. I hadn't thought along those lines, and it certainly sounds reasonable.
I'm pretty sure Apple was "forced" into this. I think there was some issue where the patent troll threatened to sue Apple or Apple/iOS developers, but they would apparently shut up if Apple gave them some patents for free.
The primary reason behind this move seems to be to protect the company from being sued by a patent troll. That the patent troll will now aggressively take on Apple's competitors is a nice bonus for Apple, I guess.
You act like the patent troll and Apple are distinct. They are not.
Instead, they are partners.
Apple is set to profit off of this relationship. Apple supplies the guns, they supply the mercenaries.
Read up on Digitude Innovations. Google it. Read the stuff from sources other than AI. This is a sleazy move by Apple.
Really, you mean like when Apple got into a ten year legal battle with Microsoft over the Mac for Microsoft ripping off the Mac OS? Apple's lawyer are adjusting to the tactics of its opponents. Plain and simple.
Didn't that case end with M$ being vindicated, and Apple running away with its tail between its legs?
From appearances Apple did not want it's name associated with Digitude while Nokia didn't have the same issue with MOSAID. Now that the connection is out in the open it's going to be impossible for Apple to make denials. What Digitude does from here on out is going to be associated with Apple.
Why would Apple not wanting to be associated with this company surprise you? I do not see Apple bragging about its partnerships with various component manufacturers. It goes to trouble to conceal those relationships. Why? For strategic reasons. Just because you want to know, doesn't mean it serves Apple to let you know. Apple announces products, not relationships.
From appearances Apple did not want it's name associated with Digitude while Nokia didn't have the same issue with MOSAID. Now that the connection is out in the open it's going to be impossible for Apple to make denials. What Digitude does from here on out is going to be associated with Apple.
Apple and Digitude conspired to do a two-step deal to make it look like Apple is at a distance. However, the connections between Apple's licensee and the Patant Troll were uncovered.
Apple is now a full partner in Digitude's patent-trolling biz.
Comments
Poor reading comprehension is hindering your argument. I didn't say that you said Apple is a patent troll, but somehow you discerned that. Try to focus.
I also didn't say that since Apple invented the market for 'real' smartphones and tablets that no one should play. I do think that if someone wants to enter into the new marketplace that Apple created, they should be able to do it without blatantly copying Apple's patented designs and workings. As my example I used before, Apple patented the bounce back when over scrolling. Why did Google need to copy that when designing the workings of Android apart from just duplication and not innovating?
And by the way, you've still not answered my question. I asked for one obvious example of a 'patent troll' stifling innovation. That was your main argument against them. Let's see an example to back up your claim, or was that just something you pulled out of thin air?
The fact that you think Google's Android includes any sort of bounce back shows to me that you really know nothing about Android and worse your entire understanding of these cases is probably wrong.
Apple and the kid had a deal in play but Apple decided that it didn't like the deal being so much like the deal it had with others and asked for special treatment...the kid then said no, this isn't right...Apple went ahead and used the kids property even after the deal was deemed wrong by the kid...the kid then sued.
Is a lot different than going after a Spanish tablet maker.
Your analogy is all wrong. Motorola is like a kid who gave up its property for all to use on fair and non discriminatory terms. Legally it has no right to take it's property back. The kid then got jealous of the popular new kid named Apple and wanted to discriminate against the pretty new kid by forcing it to pay a toll nobody else has to pay. So, since the kid chose to discriminate against Apple, Apple decided to keep using the property that it had a legal right to do. Just because the kid turned into a bully and didn't honor its commitments, doesn't mean Apple should have to suffer.
Instead, like when Apple had to deal with that bully Nokia, Apple is setting money aside that it is properly accounting for and that it intends to give to the kid when the kid decides to honor its original commitment to the community.
It appears Apple was a more than willing member. They're even on the speakers list for the recent IP getaway weekend thrown by Digitude and backer Altitude.
Note too that Nokia is again targeted, just months after all the lawsuits between Apple and them were supposedly settled. Is that going to be enough for Microsoft to modify their somewhat passive support for Apple's tactics?
Yes, and not too long after Nokia settled its lawsuit with Apple it transfers a couple thousand of its patents to Mosiad, a company that does the same thing as Digitude. Nokia made a public statement that those patents are not covered by the deal Apple and Nokia made. I wonder why Nokia would say that? So, what do you know, soon after Apple makes the same arrangement. If I recall, Nokia struck first last time.
Yes, and not too long after Nokia settled its lawsuit with Apple it transfers a couple thousand of its patents to Mosiad, a company that does the same thing as Digitude. Nokia made a public statement that those patents are not covered by the deal Apple and Nokia made.
I missed that one. Have you got a link to the statement? Not at all saying it wasn't claimed, just curious about the context and what was actually said since I wasn't familiar with it.
So not only do you think competition is a bad thing, but you also advocate genocide?
Competing unfairly is a bad thing. Competition is what Microsoft is attempting to do. Namely bringing its own competing product to market that it developed itself from the ground up. Competing fairly is not taking another's ideas and then trying to undercut the creator of those ideas in the market by offering a slightly altered replicate of it's product. It is a lot easier for HTC and Samsung to just take an iPhone apart and copy it then it was for Apple to spend the hundreds of millions in research and development costs to bring the same product to market. It is also easier for Samsung and HTC to undercut Apple's pricing when they don't have to pay that research cost. Further, Apple makes money by being original. It doesn't want people copying.
So, I have no problem with Android being wiped off the face of the Earth. There will be competition. Microsoft's Windows Phone might be slow to catch up, but it is shaping up. It will gain traction especially if Microsoft does what it is starting to do and leverage the X-Box platform. Moreover, that will be good for the market. Apple isn't going to go to into a legal battle with Microsoft, and Microsoft indemnifies it's partners. So, Apple and all the competing hardware manufacturers will get to focus on making products, and not spend so much money on lawyers the cost of which gets passed off to consumers.
Apple honestly is Android's smallest problem. Oracle is what Google is worrying about the most. With Oracle holding emails that explicitly say Google choose to rip Java off, Google is going to be paying some big dollars in licensing fees to keep Android going. Either Google will have to charge, like Microsoft does for the OS, or it will have to eat the cost itself.
I missed that one. Have you got a link to the statement? Not at all saying it wasn't claimed, just curious about the context and what was actually said since I wasn't familiar with it.
I am not going to try and find the original article when the news first broke, but here is something. My point is that Nokia did the same thing Apple did, and it has publicly acknowledged that it doesn't view the patents to be part of the settlement with Apple. Again, this move by Apple is 1) not original, and 2) is smart.
I am not going to try and find the original article when the news first broke, but here is something.
Thanks, that helps. So then as a personal opinion are you expecting MOSAID (as an agent for Nokia) to now sue Apple just as Digitude (as agent for Apple) is suing Nokia?
This is a day for all True Apple Fans to hang their heads in shame.
This is not the kind of company that many fell in love with back in the day, but a wholly different sort of a beast. Indeed, it is exaclty the type of misadventuring corporate behemoth that Steve and Woz HATED back when they decided to create something for "the rest of us".
Did Steve want his legacy to practice questionable business ethics? Did Woz want his to be a gun runner for patent trolls?
Maybe? But not likely.
Really, you mean like when Apple got into a ten year legal battle with Microsoft over the Mac for Microsoft ripping off the Mac OS? Apple's lawyer are adjusting to the tactics of its opponents. Plain and simple.
Apple honestly is Android's smallest problem. Oracle is what Google is worrying about the most.
Exactly. I can't wait to see how that turns out.
People keep talking about competition nonsense. There is a big difference between competition and being a lowlife thief.
It's an inflammatory, meaningless term and implies that they did something wrong.
There is a difference between legally and morally wrong. If you want insight into the difference, ask Joe Paterno who got the shaft at Penn State for following the law. Martin Luther King is a good reference to explain the difference to you as well.
Thanks, that helps. So then as a personal opinion are you expecting MOSAID (as an agent for Nokia) to now sue Apple just as Digitude (as agent for Apple) is suing Nokia?
No problem. I wouldn't' be surprised if Mosaid sues Apple at some point. I, however, would not expect it to occur until after Apple releases LTE phones. My understanding is the patents are largely FRAND patents that cover LTE. That is assuming Apple can't get reasonable licensing terms like was the case the last time.
Moreover, that will be good for the market. Apple isn't going to go to into a legal battle with Microsoft, and Microsoft indemnifies it's partners. So, Apple and all the competing hardware manufacturers will get to focus on making products, and not spend so much money on lawyers the cost of which gets passed off to consumers.
I suppose that will depend on conversations between Apple and Microsoft on how their agent's (Digitude) suit against Nokia is viewed. Perhaps they both continue to see Android as the bigger obstacle for now. Perhaps not.
From appearances Apple did not want it's name associated with Digitude while Nokia didn't have the same issue with MOSAID. Now that the connection is out in the open it's going to be impossible for Apple to make denials. What Digitude does from here on out is going to be associated with Apple.
No problem. I wouldn't' be surprised if Mosaid sues Apple at some point. I, however, would not expect it to occur until after Apple releases LTE phones. My understanding is the patents are largely FRAND patents that cover LTE. That is assuming Apple can't get reasonable licensing terms like was the case the last time.
Interesting perspective. I hadn't thought along those lines, and it certainly sounds reasonable.
I'm pretty sure Apple was "forced" into this. I think there was some issue where the patent troll threatened to sue Apple or Apple/iOS developers, but they would apparently shut up if Apple gave them some patents for free.
The primary reason behind this move seems to be to protect the company from being sued by a patent troll. That the patent troll will now aggressively take on Apple's competitors is a nice bonus for Apple, I guess.
You act like the patent troll and Apple are distinct. They are not.
Instead, they are partners.
Apple is set to profit off of this relationship. Apple supplies the guns, they supply the mercenaries.
Read up on Digitude Innovations. Google it. Read the stuff from sources other than AI. This is a sleazy move by Apple.
My point is, asian cultures consider copying good ideas a legitimate method
Apple never copies good ideas.
Instead, they steal great ideas. Apple has always been shameless about stealing great ideas.
Google it. Read the stuff from sources other than AI. This is a sleazy move by Apple.
You lost me at Google it.
This is a sleazy move by Apple.
That is a matter of opinion. And being sleazy is not illegal. As a matter of fact, I sometimes prefer sleazy women over prudes.
Really, you mean like when Apple got into a ten year legal battle with Microsoft over the Mac for Microsoft ripping off the Mac OS? Apple's lawyer are adjusting to the tactics of its opponents. Plain and simple.
Didn't that case end with M$ being vindicated, and Apple running away with its tail between its legs?
From appearances Apple did not want it's name associated with Digitude while Nokia didn't have the same issue with MOSAID. Now that the connection is out in the open it's going to be impossible for Apple to make denials. What Digitude does from here on out is going to be associated with Apple.
Why would Apple not wanting to be associated with this company surprise you? I do not see Apple bragging about its partnerships with various component manufacturers. It goes to trouble to conceal those relationships. Why? For strategic reasons. Just because you want to know, doesn't mean it serves Apple to let you know. Apple announces products, not relationships.
From appearances Apple did not want it's name associated with Digitude while Nokia didn't have the same issue with MOSAID. Now that the connection is out in the open it's going to be impossible for Apple to make denials. What Digitude does from here on out is going to be associated with Apple.
Apple and Digitude conspired to do a two-step deal to make it look like Apple is at a distance. However, the connections between Apple's licensee and the Patant Troll were uncovered.
Apple is now a full partner in Digitude's patent-trolling biz.