saw the MBA and MBP in the store next to each other and bought the MBP without a second thought. the MBA screen looks like crap compared to MBP
That's beside the point.
The form factor/power ratio is astounding. As is the form factor/practicality ratio.
It is not nearly the most powerful laptop, nor does it have the best screen of any laptop. But that is beside the point.
I think you made the correct choice for yourself, and the numbers indicate that most MacBook buyers agree with you. But the Air, for what it is, is really cool.
I presently have a 17" PowerBook G-4 that I love and use constantly. If the MacAir ever expands to the 17"screen, I will certainly be a ready and willing buyer. That extra screen space really comes in handy.
How the hell can you still use a G4 in this day and age without pulling your hair out? I mean, seriously. I tried using mine for kicks a while back and..no. It struggles loading webpages. Also I don't get how someone can like Apple enough to frequent forums dedicated to the company yet are perfectly content using antiquated technology. A G4 can't even run most modern osx software, as it's becoming intel only.
Ya man! I can get a ford F150 for the price of a Mazda Rx 8! The F150 can hold tons of cargo in the back, and can haul way more then the Rx 8 could ever hope too!
Who would ever buy a Mazda Rx8 when they can buy a ford F150 for the same price!
Well said.
The problem is (and internet forums are dreadful for it) that many people only see a product from their own use.
I couldn't buy an Air because of storage, but it doesn't mean it doesn't/wouldn't sell. Just means that I'm not the right buyer.
Personally the whole Ultrabook thing is rubbish for the non Apple players. Everyone knows that Apple commands the $1k+ market, and these are $1k machines. Who is really wanting to spend $1k on a bargain basement PC maker that don't usually sell such models?
The Air is an amazing machine, SO nice to grab with one hand and go, cheaper than the closest equivalent I can find from other PC makers (which of course don?t have OS X anyway), and it?s so surprisingly fast with the SSD that I think I may never buy a desktop?or any traditional computer but an Air?ever again! Especially with Thunderbolt external GPUs on the way. An awesome machine, as well as being Apple?s cheapest laptop. No surprise that they?re big sellers as SSD prices have come down.
And yet I have never seen another human being use or even MENTION a MacBook Air, in all the years I?ve been an Air user. Never. I see tons of MacBook Pros, iPads, iPhones... but never an Air. Not at meetings, coffee shops, libraries, anywhere. Very odd.
The Air is an amazing machine, SO nice to grab with one hand and go, cheaper than the closest equivalent I can find from other PC makers (which of course don?t have OS X anyway), and it?s so surprisingly fast with the SSD that I think I may never buy a desktop?or any traditional computer but an Air?ever again! Especially with Thunderbolt external GPUs on the way. An awesome machine, as well as being Apple?s cheapest laptop. No surprise that they?re big sellers as SSD prices have come down (and they?ve had some great sales, under $850, for the patient).
And yet I have never seen another human being use or even MENTION a MacBook Air, in all the years I?ve been an Air user. Never. I see tons of MacBook Pros, iPads, iPhones... but never an Air. Not at meetings, coffee shops, libraries, anywhere. Very odd.
P.S. Storage is the barrier for me too; an Air with 256 would have JUST enough space, but it would be tight. So I saved a ton and settled for a smaller Air SSD... and added an external pocket 1TB drive. I rarely need it: the stuff I use all the time fits on the internal. With the added pocket drive, I?m still spending less than the 256, AND the Air + HD is still smaller than other laptop styles. The pocket drive (Western Digital) fits in the side pocket with my charger?and that?s when I need it; usually, I leave it home and forget about it. (Same as I would the DVD drive?except I actually have never needed one in 4 years so I didn?t buy one. I will if I abandon desktops/iMacs, though.)
So an Air ?all the time? with (up to) three external things ?occasionally? seems like a the best deal around: an external HD, an external DVD, and an external big-screen monitor.
The MBA's r brilliant. I hope to buy one this year after apple includes 3G capability like the iPad 3G. Oh, never mind, I'll buy one anyway even if it doesn't have 3G.
Not sure I see the 15-inch version as a good option. The biggest advantage of the Air is its weight and it's simply impossible to go to 15 inches without a significant weight penalty.
Just going from the 11 to the 13 in the existing model means a leap in weight from 2.38 points to 2.96 pounds. A 15-inch Air would not be that much lighter than a 13-inch Macbook Pro and as such you start to lose the reason for going with an Air over a Pro.
What I do see happening, though, is that there will be weight improvements made in the Pro line which in turn will further erode the difference between the two lines, hence making the 15-inch Air a rather curious product. If, for example, the next generation of Pros check in at let's say 3.9 pounds, 4.9 pounds, and 5.9 pounds for the 13-, 15-, and 17-inch models, respectively, a 3.6-pound 15-inch Air would be a hard sell. After all, if the choice were between a 3.9-pound 13-inch Pro priced at $1,249 or a 3.6-pound 15-inch Air starting at something like $1,700 with similar performance, few would value the additional two inches in screen enough to spend more money and wind up with a marginally lighter device.
If the 15-inch model does materialize, then there will be minimal changes to the form factor of the Pro line but I do think Apple is more inclined to shave weight off the Pros than to introduce a 15-inch Air instead.
You could be right, but my guess is that if the "Air line" and the Pro line survive as discrete classes of machine the 15" is the ONE size likely appear in both as larger capacity SSD's get cheaper. The 13" MBP is the real endangered species in this scenario to me - even ripping out the ODD, it's still gonna be hard to stuff enough "pro-ness" into a downsized chassis. One already feels that about the current and previous 13" when you start comparing some key specs with the 15" MBP.
I also hope the 15" MBP will be more like 4.4 than 4.9 pounds (very close to the current weight of the 13" MBP - and the 15" MBA maybe close to where you said - still a significant diff. The Pro will likely have a bump in screen res as well as well as more storage, RAM and better GPU. And goodbye to ODD's - maybe even in iMacs - within 18 months.....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slurpy
How the hell can you still use a G4 in this day and age without pulling your hair out? I mean, seriously. I tried using mine for kicks a while back and..no. It struggles loading webpages. Also I don't get how someone can like Apple enough to frequent forums dedicated to the company yet are perfectly content using antiquated technology. A G4 can't even run most modern osx software, as it's becoming intel only.
Such prejudice! I'm excited about new tech and have money, even. However, there's nothing wrong with functional aging tech, and no need to make sure all my cash is spent on having only the latest widgets. My iBook 1.33 G4 is still a dandy bookkeeping and podcast-playing machine, still useful for light browsing sessions in bed and runs iWork (particularly I use Pages) like a dream. What, I should trash it 'cos its ancient-ness offends?
PS: I'm also using my Dad's old hand tools from the 1940's and '50's around the house to fix things, and I eat at a 110 year old solid Mission Oak table. Any objections?
Would like to see thinner bezels, especially on the 11". Would allow for bigger displays.
I have long thought the 13":s current screen size with bezel cut off would be perfect, which is essentially the same thing. Keep full width keyboard, make the display exactly as wide, no bezel -> win.
Personally the whole Ultrabook thing is rubbish for the non Apple players. Everyone knows that Apple commands the $1k+ market, and these are $1k machines. Who is really wanting to spend $1k on a bargain basement PC maker that don't usually sell such models?
You'd abandon a high-end machine because the same manufacturer also makes low-end machines? Completely irrational.
There is no question that when it comes to portable computers weight is the enemy. Apple would be making exclusively Air-like laptops if it could figure out how to do that and yet offer both affordability and performance. One major obstacle is the cost of SSDs which are an important part of making lighter laptops. But it's also about the need for a processor that has a lot of muscle to go with low power consumption and runs relatively cool.
I do agree that the 13-inch Pro is threatened as the Airs continue to get more powerful with each revision but I also think that a 15-inch Air is a long way off. Right now serious performance, as in having a laptop be your only computer and be expected to do demanding work, isn't possible while making the compromises that the Air does to achieve lighter weight. On the other hand if weight reductions are made technically possible going forward, without a performance hit, there is no reason for Apple to forego such reductions. There is no advantage to having a heavier laptop.
I don't see a 15-inch Air at this time coming to market. What I see is the continued upgrading of the 11-inch and 13-inch Airs which will sooner than later result in the killing off the 13-inch Pro. While this is going on, expect weight reductions in the 15-inch and 17-inch models which will come in an evolutionary fashion. The focus will be on performance in the Pro range with weight reductions regarded as desirable whereas the Air range will be focused on weight reduction with performance upgrades regarded as desirable.
A 15-inch Air just doesn't feel like the right product, not quite fitting well into either category. The worst of both worlds, is how I see such a device. A little too heavy and not powerful enough. Maybe I'm wrong about this but I believe Jobs would never give such a device the green light and neither should his successors.
Not that I'm complaining about the MacBook Air. It's a great machine and my wife and I both own one. But do remember that the growth of the Air is all pretty recent, with the latest design changes and, perhaps more importantly, the discontinuation of the MacBook. The Air now sits in the low end price point for a Mac laptop, so a lot of people who might have picked a MacBook went with the Air instead.
Right now serious performance, as in having a laptop be your only computer and be expected to do demanding work, isn't possible while making the compromises that the Air does to achieve lighter weight.
Most people's "demanding work" requires much less power than the newest Airs have. I'm personally fine with a last gen Air. The need for display space is almost entirely independent of the need for performance.
Quote:
A 15-inch Air just doesn't feel like the right product, not quite fitting well into either category. The worst of both worlds, is how I see such a device. A little too heavy and not powerful enough. Maybe I'm wrong about this but I believe Jobs would never give such a device the green light and neither should his successors.
???
It would have a large screen and minimal weight. How is that not useful?
Comments
don't get the excitement
saw the MBA and MBP in the store next to each other and bought the MBP without a second thought. the MBA screen looks like crap compared to MBP
That's beside the point.
The form factor/power ratio is astounding. As is the form factor/practicality ratio.
It is not nearly the most powerful laptop, nor does it have the best screen of any laptop. But that is beside the point.
I think you made the correct choice for yourself, and the numbers indicate that most MacBook buyers agree with you. But the Air, for what it is, is really cool.
A 15-inch Air would not be that much lighter than a 13-inch Macbook Pro and as such you start to lose the reason for going with an Air over a Pro.
Not really.
You would get a 15 inch laptop that is lighter than an alternative 13 inch laptop.
To some people, that would be a dream come true. Especially if it were easily dockable with a full sized monitor and keyboard at home.
I presently have a 17" PowerBook G-4 that I love and use constantly. If the MacAir ever expands to the 17"screen, I will certainly be a ready and willing buyer. That extra screen space really comes in handy.
How the hell can you still use a G4 in this day and age without pulling your hair out? I mean, seriously. I tried using mine for kicks a while back and..no. It struggles loading webpages. Also I don't get how someone can like Apple enough to frequent forums dedicated to the company yet are perfectly content using antiquated technology. A G4 can't even run most modern osx software, as it's becoming intel only.
Ya man! I can get a ford F150 for the price of a Mazda Rx 8! The F150 can hold tons of cargo in the back, and can haul way more then the Rx 8 could ever hope too!
Who would ever buy a Mazda Rx8 when they can buy a ford F150 for the same price!
Well said.
The problem is (and internet forums are dreadful for it) that many people only see a product from their own use.
I couldn't buy an Air because of storage, but it doesn't mean it doesn't/wouldn't sell. Just means that I'm not the right buyer.
Personally the whole Ultrabook thing is rubbish for the non Apple players. Everyone knows that Apple commands the $1k+ market, and these are $1k machines. Who is really wanting to spend $1k on a bargain basement PC maker that don't usually sell such models?
And yet I have never seen another human being use or even MENTION a MacBook Air, in all the years I?ve been an Air user. Never. I see tons of MacBook Pros, iPads, iPhones... but never an Air. Not at meetings, coffee shops, libraries, anywhere. Very odd.
The Air is an amazing machine, SO nice to grab with one hand and go, cheaper than the closest equivalent I can find from other PC makers (which of course don?t have OS X anyway), and it?s so surprisingly fast with the SSD that I think I may never buy a desktop?or any traditional computer but an Air?ever again! Especially with Thunderbolt external GPUs on the way. An awesome machine, as well as being Apple?s cheapest laptop. No surprise that they?re big sellers as SSD prices have come down (and they?ve had some great sales, under $850, for the patient).
And yet I have never seen another human being use or even MENTION a MacBook Air, in all the years I?ve been an Air user. Never. I see tons of MacBook Pros, iPads, iPhones... but never an Air. Not at meetings, coffee shops, libraries, anywhere. Very odd.
P.S. Storage is the barrier for me too; an Air with 256 would have JUST enough space, but it would be tight. So I saved a ton and settled for a smaller Air SSD... and added an external pocket 1TB drive. I rarely need it: the stuff I use all the time fits on the internal. With the added pocket drive, I?m still spending less than the 256, AND the Air + HD is still smaller than other laptop styles. The pocket drive (Western Digital) fits in the side pocket with my charger?and that?s when I need it; usually, I leave it home and forget about it. (Same as I would the DVD drive?except I actually have never needed one in 4 years so I didn?t buy one. I will if I abandon desktops/iMacs, though.)
So an Air ?all the time? with (up to) three external things ?occasionally? seems like a the best deal around: an external HD, an external DVD, and an external big-screen monitor.
Not sure I see the 15-inch version as a good option. The biggest advantage of the Air is its weight and it's simply impossible to go to 15 inches without a significant weight penalty.
Just going from the 11 to the 13 in the existing model means a leap in weight from 2.38 points to 2.96 pounds. A 15-inch Air would not be that much lighter than a 13-inch Macbook Pro and as such you start to lose the reason for going with an Air over a Pro.
What I do see happening, though, is that there will be weight improvements made in the Pro line which in turn will further erode the difference between the two lines, hence making the 15-inch Air a rather curious product. If, for example, the next generation of Pros check in at let's say 3.9 pounds, 4.9 pounds, and 5.9 pounds for the 13-, 15-, and 17-inch models, respectively, a 3.6-pound 15-inch Air would be a hard sell. After all, if the choice were between a 3.9-pound 13-inch Pro priced at $1,249 or a 3.6-pound 15-inch Air starting at something like $1,700 with similar performance, few would value the additional two inches in screen enough to spend more money and wind up with a marginally lighter device.
If the 15-inch model does materialize, then there will be minimal changes to the form factor of the Pro line but I do think Apple is more inclined to shave weight off the Pros than to introduce a 15-inch Air instead.
You could be right, but my guess is that if the "Air line" and the Pro line survive as discrete classes of machine the 15" is the ONE size likely appear in both as larger capacity SSD's get cheaper. The 13" MBP is the real endangered species in this scenario to me - even ripping out the ODD, it's still gonna be hard to stuff enough "pro-ness" into a downsized chassis. One already feels that about the current and previous 13" when you start comparing some key specs with the 15" MBP.
I also hope the 15" MBP will be more like 4.4 than 4.9 pounds (very close to the current weight of the 13" MBP - and the 15" MBA maybe close to where you said - still a significant diff. The Pro will likely have a bump in screen res as well as well as more storage, RAM and better GPU. And goodbye to ODD's - maybe even in iMacs - within 18 months.....
How the hell can you still use a G4 in this day and age without pulling your hair out? I mean, seriously. I tried using mine for kicks a while back and..no. It struggles loading webpages. Also I don't get how someone can like Apple enough to frequent forums dedicated to the company yet are perfectly content using antiquated technology. A G4 can't even run most modern osx software, as it's becoming intel only.
Such prejudice! I'm excited about new tech and have money, even. However, there's nothing wrong with functional aging tech, and no need to make sure all my cash is spent on having only the latest widgets. My iBook 1.33 G4 is still a dandy bookkeeping and podcast-playing machine, still useful for light browsing sessions in bed and runs iWork (particularly I use Pages) like a dream. What, I should trash it 'cos its ancient-ness offends?
PS: I'm also using my Dad's old hand tools from the 1940's and '50's around the house to fix things, and I eat at a 110 year old solid Mission Oak table. Any objections?
Would like to see thinner bezels, especially on the 11". Would allow for bigger displays.
I have long thought the 13":s current screen size with bezel cut off would be perfect, which is essentially the same thing. Keep full width keyboard, make the display exactly as wide, no bezel -> win.
Personally the whole Ultrabook thing is rubbish for the non Apple players. Everyone knows that Apple commands the $1k+ market, and these are $1k machines. Who is really wanting to spend $1k on a bargain basement PC maker that don't usually sell such models?
You'd abandon a high-end machine because the same manufacturer also makes low-end machines? Completely irrational.
I do agree that the 13-inch Pro is threatened as the Airs continue to get more powerful with each revision but I also think that a 15-inch Air is a long way off. Right now serious performance, as in having a laptop be your only computer and be expected to do demanding work, isn't possible while making the compromises that the Air does to achieve lighter weight. On the other hand if weight reductions are made technically possible going forward, without a performance hit, there is no reason for Apple to forego such reductions. There is no advantage to having a heavier laptop.
I don't see a 15-inch Air at this time coming to market. What I see is the continued upgrading of the 11-inch and 13-inch Airs which will sooner than later result in the killing off the 13-inch Pro. While this is going on, expect weight reductions in the 15-inch and 17-inch models which will come in an evolutionary fashion. The focus will be on performance in the Pro range with weight reductions regarded as desirable whereas the Air range will be focused on weight reduction with performance upgrades regarded as desirable.
A 15-inch Air just doesn't feel like the right product, not quite fitting well into either category. The worst of both worlds, is how I see such a device. A little too heavy and not powerful enough. Maybe I'm wrong about this but I believe Jobs would never give such a device the green light and neither should his successors.
Right now serious performance, as in having a laptop be your only computer and be expected to do demanding work, isn't possible while making the compromises that the Air does to achieve lighter weight.
Most people's "demanding work" requires much less power than the newest Airs have. I'm personally fine with a last gen Air. The need for display space is almost entirely independent of the need for performance.
A 15-inch Air just doesn't feel like the right product, not quite fitting well into either category. The worst of both worlds, is how I see such a device. A little too heavy and not powerful enough. Maybe I'm wrong about this but I believe Jobs would never give such a device the green light and neither should his successors.
???
It would have a large screen and minimal weight. How is that not useful?