Statistics show that 80 percent of all crashes and 65 percent of near-crashes resulted from some kind of distraction experienced when drivers were either eating or drinking, reading, listening to music, or talking texting on their cell phones, yelling at their kids
Corrected but you can not outlaw that.
Since the government could not figure out how to stop bad drivers they just told people speeding and drunk driving was killing people.
The people who put these laws in place are attempting to claim traffic deaths are down because of the laws, actually it is because cars are much safer today, you can get in a very bad accident and walk away verse 30 yrs ago you would have died. Better car designs is what is making most of the difference.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
I agree that this app should have been pulled. (Actually, it should never have been allowed in the first place). It is clearly meant to circumvent the law.
Even if you assume that 100% of law enforcement officers would recognize their own state's license, what happens when someone uses it to board a plane in Florida using a Washington license?
Or, far more likely, 18 year old kids use fake out-of-state licenses to illegally buy drinks.
Note that the app lets you email the fake license, so you can print an laminate it - so it would be a plausible deception.
How do you know this was a clearly intend to circumvent the law, you know there is no law against doing this as long as it is clear it is meant to be fake. You ever wonder how people can sell fake money, because it is a novitiate item and it is clearly label as such.
These days no one can get away with fake IDs, all state now follow the standard ID requirements and if you have flown in the last 5 yrs you would have notice the TSA and the nice blue LED flash lights they use to check the validity of an ID. Well most police are now using them as well as places which people tend to use fake IDs to gain access.
The only way it is illegal if it was truly meant to deceive someone, so without all the nice holograms and other ID security items missing it can not be meant to deceive. Also, if it was illegal the US would have been all over this developer and had the FBI and any other government agency they could think of visiting this person. Obviously they didn't so it no illegal.
This just another example of the government trying to regulate what people do even when it is legal.
So lets stop or outlaw anything that some person in the government feel could facilitate law-breaking, so how many items can we think of here, here is few off the top of my head
Gun - Yeah I know they are still trying to outlaw them, could facility someone to steal or break into your house
Photocopiers - Yeah they also attempt to outlaw them, could temp people into copying a book
Radar Detectors - Yeah outlaw in the VA, causes people to speed
CB Radioes - Yeap those too were attempt to be removed from the public hands (causes truckers to speed)
Facebook - Should be since it could helps pedophiles. Before you say it not joking matter, but it just an example of how out of control this could get
"In it, the senator said the application could aid criminals or underage teens in deceiving people."
Using that logic, Photoshop and color printers should be illegal as well.
I agree TOTALLY. Ban Photoshop, ban color printers, ban plastic laminators... ban everything! And of course make Apple, Google and RIM responsible for babysitting!
Reality is stranger than fiction, all I have to say.
So your argument is that Apple should facilitate crime just because someone else does? That doesn't make sense.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristophB
Edit: And law enforcment officers use national databases and those non-Macs in the vehicles to verify ID.
So? How many bartenders enter your ID into their national database?
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60
What if 18 year olds flew to Australia and used their real ID to legally buy drinks?
Old enough to die in a war = old enough to drink.
I happen to agree with that, but it doesn't change the fact that it's illegal. Work to change the law all you want. But, until then, you are required to obey it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maestro64
So lets stop or outlaw anything that some person in the government feel could facilitate law-breaking, so how many items can we think of here, here is few off the top of my head
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightwaver67
"In it, the senator said the application could aid criminals or underage teens in deceiving people."
Using that logic, Photoshop and color printers should be illegal as well.
Sure, there are lots of examples of things that CAN be used for criminal activities. Knives, guns, spray paint, gasoline, and even water. But the difference is that all of those things have legal, practical uses. I just don't see the reason to facilitate a practice that doesn't have any real socially acceptable value.
If you want to do it as a gimmick, then create an app that does drivers licenses from Neptune, Saturn, and Jupiter. Then it's obvious that it's a game.
You'd be surprised. There are plenty of incompetent fools that work in security related jobs. Have you ever run into some of the baboons that work for the TSA at airports?
What if 18 year olds flew to Australia and used their real ID to legally buy drinks?
Old enough to die in a war = old enough to drink.
So we should make the drinking age zygote or older because of pregnant mothers who died in a war along with their unborn child. In all seriousness, I agree with your point regarding being old enough to be enlisted into the military and old enough to drink.
So your argument is that Apple should facilitate crime just because someone else does? That doesn't make sense.
You keep saying facilitate crime. Neither Apple nor this App maker knowingly aid in the commission of a crime and neiter does that website I linked. News flash - people commit crime without iPhones. Sometimes they use MacBook Pros, OS X and perhaps even Safari.
My main point with the link was Congress cares about that damned app but a simple google search yields much more attractive options.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
So? How many bartenders enter your ID into their national database?
I was responding to your comment about law enforcment. Now that you're saying bartenders - they receive training on spotting fakes and when in doubt don't serve.
I think the extent we are taught to worry about preventing what others might do has gone way to far. My ideas for people with drinking and driving convictions (so after due process is complete) - publish their mugs on cable access channels and front pages of news papers, notify their employer and take away their license to drive. I'm not for jail time for non-violent stuff but I could be persuaded into stocks in the town square or caning.
Won't be a problem for me. I carry so I don't drink in public.
"In it, the senator said the application could aid criminals or underage teens in deceiving people."
Using that logic, Photoshop and color printers should be illegal as well.
I've seen some "creative" types do things with 'toshop that should be illegal. Advertisement among other things (ever seen a burger that looks like the ones on the front of MacDonald's? I, never.)
And that's not even mentioning the really horrible stuff, with colors and flashy letters. Some "creative" types should not be allowed to play with such weapons of massive destruction as the "creative" suite
Yeah right. My state even has a picture of their ID on their own web site (it's low quality, but I'm sure some state has a higher quality image of their ID on their site).
My scanner can aid in making a counterfeit ID. Maybe they shouldn't sell scanners anymore.
My ID has a hologram, a background picture of myself behind the hologram, my signature overlaying the hologram, and of course the barcode that is scanned by my local liquor store and electronically verified. Anyone who needs an ounce of security will electronically verify your ID.
.
I think the more popular fake ids are ones from out of state because the bouncer doesn't know what it is supposed to look like. Just like the one I found in my son's wallet.
Zimmer needs to chill out. A real driver's license is much more dangerous than a fake one.
True, given the way people drive
Hardened criminals would use other means of obtaining fake licenses, like this thing called the Internet. And terrorists would just use their real names if they part of sleeper cells. You cannot present a fake license to the police at a traffic stop (unless you want to go jail). These fake licenses are only good for buying booze or getting into clubs.
Obviously this is just a politician trying to look like he is doing something instead of dealing with real issues. Maybe proof that someone was illegally using this app and getting away with it first?
I think the more popular fake ids are ones from out of state because the bouncer doesn't know what it is supposed to look like. Just like the one I found in my son's wallet.
I think the more popular fake ids are ones from out of state because the bouncer doesn't know what it is supposed to look like. Just like the one I found in my son's wallet.
It might work at Applebee's, but real bars scan the barcode too.
Statistics show that 80 percent of all crashes and 65 percent of near-crashes resulted from some kind of distraction experienced when drivers were either eating or drinking, reading, listening to music, or talking texting on their cell phones.
Do you see drunk driving mentioned anywhere in there?
last time i checked drinking while driving was the precursor to drunk driving... waiting til you are behind the wheel before starting your first drink does not absolve you from drunk driving
"sorry officer, I was sure if I kept it above 90 I could get home faster than the alcohol hit my bloodstream"
Comments
Or, far more likely, 18 year old kids use fake out-of-state licenses to illegally buy drinks.
What if 18 year olds flew to Australia and used their real ID to legally buy drinks?
Old enough to die in a war = old enough to drink.
From the article:
Statistics show that 80 percent of all crashes and 65 percent of near-crashes resulted from some kind of distraction experienced when drivers were either eating or drinking, reading, listening to music, or talking texting on their cell phones, yelling at their kids
Corrected but you can not outlaw that.
Since the government could not figure out how to stop bad drivers they just told people speeding and drunk driving was killing people.
The people who put these laws in place are attempting to claim traffic deaths are down because of the laws, actually it is because cars are much safer today, you can get in a very bad accident and walk away verse 30 yrs ago you would have died. Better car designs is what is making most of the difference.
I agree that this app should have been pulled. (Actually, it should never have been allowed in the first place). It is clearly meant to circumvent the law.
Even if you assume that 100% of law enforcement officers would recognize their own state's license, what happens when someone uses it to board a plane in Florida using a Washington license?
Or, far more likely, 18 year old kids use fake out-of-state licenses to illegally buy drinks.
Note that the app lets you email the fake license, so you can print an laminate it - so it would be a plausible deception.
How do you know this was a clearly intend to circumvent the law, you know there is no law against doing this as long as it is clear it is meant to be fake. You ever wonder how people can sell fake money, because it is a novitiate item and it is clearly label as such.
These days no one can get away with fake IDs, all state now follow the standard ID requirements and if you have flown in the last 5 yrs you would have notice the TSA and the nice blue LED flash lights they use to check the validity of an ID. Well most police are now using them as well as places which people tend to use fake IDs to gain access.
The only way it is illegal if it was truly meant to deceive someone, so without all the nice holograms and other ID security items missing it can not be meant to deceive. Also, if it was illegal the US would have been all over this developer and had the FBI and any other government agency they could think of visiting this person. Obviously they didn't so it no illegal.
This just another example of the government trying to regulate what people do even when it is legal.
What if 18 year olds flew to Australia and used their real ID to legally buy drinks?
What if 18 year olds flew to Burkina Faso and legally had sex with 13 year old girls?
TSA may be baboons, but they do receive training, and they wouldn't be stupid enough...
They can be pretty stupid:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEJpz...eature=related
"Applications shouldn't facilitate law-breaking"
So lets stop or outlaw anything that some person in the government feel could facilitate law-breaking, so how many items can we think of here, here is few off the top of my head
Gun - Yeah I know they are still trying to outlaw them, could facility someone to steal or break into your house
Photocopiers - Yeah they also attempt to outlaw them, could temp people into copying a book
Radar Detectors - Yeah outlaw in the VA, causes people to speed
CB Radioes - Yeap those too were attempt to be removed from the public hands (causes truckers to speed)
Facebook - Should be since it could helps pedophiles. Before you say it not joking matter, but it just an example of how out of control this could get
Using that logic, Photoshop and color printers should be illegal as well.
"In it, the senator said the application could aid criminals or underage teens in deceiving people."
Using that logic, Photoshop and color printers should be illegal as well.
I agree TOTALLY. Ban Photoshop, ban color printers, ban plastic laminators... ban everything! And of course make Apple, Google and RIM responsible for babysitting!
Reality is stranger than fiction, all I have to say.
http://www.artcodesign.com/?a=6:cata...ense_templates
So your argument is that Apple should facilitate crime just because someone else does? That doesn't make sense.
Edit: And law enforcment officers use national databases and those non-Macs in the vehicles to verify ID.
So? How many bartenders enter your ID into their national database?
What if 18 year olds flew to Australia and used their real ID to legally buy drinks?
Old enough to die in a war = old enough to drink.
I happen to agree with that, but it doesn't change the fact that it's illegal. Work to change the law all you want. But, until then, you are required to obey it.
So lets stop or outlaw anything that some person in the government feel could facilitate law-breaking, so how many items can we think of here, here is few off the top of my head
"In it, the senator said the application could aid criminals or underage teens in deceiving people."
Using that logic, Photoshop and color printers should be illegal as well.
Sure, there are lots of examples of things that CAN be used for criminal activities. Knives, guns, spray paint, gasoline, and even water. But the difference is that all of those things have legal, practical uses. I just don't see the reason to facilitate a practice that doesn't have any real socially acceptable value.
If you want to do it as a gimmick, then create an app that does drivers licenses from Neptune, Saturn, and Jupiter. Then it's obvious that it's a game.
You'd be surprised. There are plenty of incompetent fools that work in security related jobs. Have you ever run into some of the baboons that work for the TSA at airports?
Apple should retire them from airports then
What if 18 year olds flew to Australia and used their real ID to legally buy drinks?
Old enough to die in a war = old enough to drink.
What if 18 year olds flew to Burkina Faso and legally had sex with 13 year old girls?
Spain. Why go to Africa when you can have the same thing in a modern country?
Europe. Sometimes, not up to its own standards.
-- for the record, this is not encouraging people to go to Spain for that purpose, this is encouraging Spain to revise its own laws --
What if 18 year olds flew to Australia and used their real ID to legally buy drinks?
Old enough to die in a war = old enough to drink.
So we should make the drinking age zygote or older because of pregnant mothers who died in a war along with their unborn child. In all seriousness, I agree with your point regarding being old enough to be enlisted into the military and old enough to drink.
So your argument is that Apple should facilitate crime just because someone else does? That doesn't make sense.
You keep saying facilitate crime. Neither Apple nor this App maker knowingly aid in the commission of a crime and neiter does that website I linked. News flash - people commit crime without iPhones. Sometimes they use MacBook Pros, OS X and perhaps even Safari.
My main point with the link was Congress cares about that damned app but a simple google search yields much more attractive options.
So? How many bartenders enter your ID into their national database?
I was responding to your comment about law enforcment. Now that you're saying bartenders - they receive training on spotting fakes and when in doubt don't serve.
I think the extent we are taught to worry about preventing what others might do has gone way to far. My ideas for people with drinking and driving convictions (so after due process is complete) - publish their mugs on cable access channels and front pages of news papers, notify their employer and take away their license to drive. I'm not for jail time for non-violent stuff but I could be persuaded into stocks in the town square or caning.
Won't be a problem for me. I carry so I don't drink in public.
"In it, the senator said the application could aid criminals or underage teens in deceiving people."
Using that logic, Photoshop and color printers should be illegal as well.
I've seen some "creative" types do things with 'toshop that should be illegal. Advertisement among other things (ever seen a burger that looks like the ones on the front of MacDonald's? I, never.)
And that's not even mentioning the really horrible stuff, with colors and flashy letters. Some "creative" types should not be allowed to play with such weapons of massive destruction as the "creative" suite
Yeah right. My state even has a picture of their ID on their own web site (it's low quality, but I'm sure some state has a higher quality image of their ID on their site).
My scanner can aid in making a counterfeit ID. Maybe they shouldn't sell scanners anymore.
My ID has a hologram, a background picture of myself behind the hologram, my signature overlaying the hologram, and of course the barcode that is scanned by my local liquor store and electronically verified. Anyone who needs an ounce of security will electronically verify your ID.
.
I think the more popular fake ids are ones from out of state because the bouncer doesn't know what it is supposed to look like. Just like the one I found in my son's wallet.
Zimmer needs to chill out. A real driver's license is much more dangerous than a fake one.
True, given the way people drive
Hardened criminals would use other means of obtaining fake licenses, like this thing called the Internet. And terrorists would just use their real names if they part of sleeper cells. You cannot present a fake license to the police at a traffic stop (unless you want to go jail). These fake licenses are only good for buying booze or getting into clubs.
I think the more popular fake ids are ones from out of state because the bouncer doesn't know what it is supposed to look like. Just like the one I found in my son's wallet.
Did it say his name was McLovin from Hawaii?
I think the more popular fake ids are ones from out of state because the bouncer doesn't know what it is supposed to look like. Just like the one I found in my son's wallet.
It might work at Applebee's, but real bars scan the barcode too.
Statistics show that 80 percent of all crashes and 65 percent of near-crashes resulted from some kind of distraction experienced when drivers were either eating or drinking, reading, listening to music, or talking texting on their cell phones.
Do you see drunk driving mentioned anywhere in there?
last time i checked drinking while driving was the precursor to drunk driving... waiting til you are behind the wheel before starting your first drink does not absolve you from drunk driving
"sorry officer, I was sure if I kept it above 90 I could get home faster than the alcohol hit my bloodstream"