Thanks. What's crazy about the subsequent attacks is that in my house are - 2 iPads, 1 iMacs, 1 Mac pro and a MacBook air. I bought the coolaid. I love my apple gear. I just don't want to end up with the bestest Sony CLIES that are no longer supported...a la my first mac pro which was a G5 and which apple stopped supporting after apple care ran out after I bought it. They have form. I just want them to see the danger. And react. Rather than talk about sales versus volume and all that rubbish.
1) It's hard to take anyone seriously with comments like "I bought the coolaid."
2) Sales v. volume (I assume you mean shipped) isn't rubbish. It's questions the very nature of consumer interest. Over producing product and stuffing channels with "volume" you can't sell only costs a company money.
You keep saying that, but I see no evidence of new tech that is being given to AU and NZ that is different from the smartphone tech in other countries. Is Android OS more advanced there? Nope. How about the iPhone? Nope. So what Samsung smartphone only has tech for AU and NZ markets that isn't elsewhere in the world?
The 4G LTE networks you have rolling out in the US were tested in Perth, Australia before being deployed. The 3.5G network that they will replace has been here for close to ten years with Telstra. Vodafail, Optus and 3 are still using 2.5E and 3G gen 1 networks. Optus has some 3.5 coverge with the 900MHZ band. 3.5 is yet to arrive in much of the US. 4G is only available in selected areas with one US network I think.
Relax mate - I'm not attacking the land of the Free - I think the US is wonderful. But they have to test tech - and it's cost/benefit somewhere. So they do it here - as we have similar populations, and land mass etc. Wasn't referring to the handsets necessarily - although your Verizon network uses analogue cell towers that were replaced (phased out) here over 10 years ago. Don't get defensive. I am an apple geek probably more than you are - but where I see a major problem looming - you seem to see nothing.
1) It's hard to take anyone seriously with comments like "I bought the coolaid."
2) Sales v. volume (I assume you mean shipped) isn't rubbish. It's questions the very nature of consumer interest. Over producing product and stuffing channels with "volume" you can't sell only costs a company money.
Whether you take me seriously or not is irrelevant. The problem remains. Attack the ball - not the man mate. It just makes you look - well - small.
1) It's hard to take anyone seriously with comments like "I bought the coolaid."
2) Sales v. volume (I assume you mean shipped) isn't rubbish. It's questions the very nature of consumer interest. Over producing product and stuffing channels with "volume" you can't sell only costs a company money.
It is rubbish. It is an atefactual number - a snapshot in time. It makes no effort to analyze trend - and more importantly - projection.
We disagree. Optus and Vodafone are targeted at the cheap and cheerful phone users who have not got the same reliance on coverage/data speeds. 3 resells much of Vodafone airspace although I think it has it's own towers too. Not sure. Never used them.
Totally disagree. Telstra are the only viable network - for businesses. The other networks are useless outside of syd/melb/canberra. Telstra have only recently tried to capitalize on vodafail by having cheaper plans to mop up some of the povs. Terrible perhaps. True nonetheless. Just ask their marketing guys who they target. And Asher Moses? First time I've heard him accused of being anything other than an apple fanboi. He is a plaguirist - most of his "stories" come from copy pastes from yesterday's mashable or Engadget...but that's another story. Tech journalism. Perhaps that's what you meant by behind in some areas.
I'd put money on Apple's profit margins being way above those of other vendors in Australia, as per the US and the rest of the world. Profits beats units shipped.
Sure - but as an end game - flooding the market for a period of two or three years or so - may be sustainable - just to drive iOS into submission? That's my question. It's what happened to Sony when with the CLIE - windows mobile was released in lots of crap handsets - flooding the market - and beating out a better piece of hardware and software. You're missing the point I think.
Are you sure they were iPhones or were they the Samsung clones?
It's no surprise Android has a larger shipment share considering there are a lot more vendors and phone models.
iOS is strong if you include (and you should) ALL iOS devices. Most apps on iOS doesn't care if it's an ipod touch, iphone, or ipad. That's what developers should look at.
Apple sells you an ecosystem. Samsung, HTC, etc., sell you a phone. Google sells you. Apple would love for you to buy a new phone every year but they rather get you to stay in the ecosystem and buy a new phone when you're ready. Samsung, HTC, etc. want you to buy a new phone every two years or sooner. That's why they don't upgrade to the latest OS and desupport you.
Your reply has so little to do with my original point, that it has educated me immensely on how some people just can't follow a course of logic.
Well, its just like Windows vs Mac again. In the end, Android will pretty much own the market worldwide. It doesn't mean Apple will be out of business, but they will have to concede the market to Google and their partners. Hopefully the 1% share that Steve Jobs was hoping for will be enough to sustain Apple iOS & hardware for the future.
There you go again with Android "owning" the market.
Didn't you get slammed yesterday by saying that very same thing?
Anyway... what does Google have other than the ability to say "our OS is on more phones" ?
Which is more important... OS market share or a company's profit?
There you go again with Android "owning" the market.
Didn't you get slammed yesterday by saying that very same thing?
Anyway... what does Google have other than the ability to say "our OS is on more phones" ?
Which is more important... OS market share or a company's profit?
Hint: you can't pay your rent with market share.
Slammed? Where? All I see is denial from Apple users. If Android is not profitable, then why are all these hardware vendors still producing products? It's not slowing down at all. The smartphone market is growing...with Android, not Apple/iOS. So clearly companies are making money. They will continue to do so and more Android Smartphones and soon Tablets will proliferate the market. Its so strange how strong Apple users are in such denial when the truth and future is showed to them.
Nothing to do with not being open minded. In my experience (reasonable) - I am yet to meet one person who would not prefer an iPhone after a months use of either.
That's a different point than what you made before. But that's ok.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cggr
If android is allowed to copy slavishly and make cheap Asian clones - apple as a microcosm of the US.will share its economic fate - undermined by cheap labour and cheap clones. And when apple eventually gets beaten....android prices I'll go up all over again...like Microsoft.
"Like Microsoft" - a common refrain. But there's a problem with that analogy - you can't say history is repeating itself when chapters 1, 2 and 3 are dramatically different. Even, for the sake of argument, Android ends up commanding the same marketshare as Windows and iOS is relegated to 5%, it is still not Microsoft-Apple redux.
The 4G LTE networks you have rolling out in the US were tested in Perth, Australia before being deployed. The 3.5G network that they will replace has been here for close to ten years with Telstra. Vodafail, Optus and 3 are still using 2.5E and 3G gen 1 networks. Optus has some 3.5 coverge with the 900MHZ band. 3.5 is yet to arrive in much of the US. 4G is only available in selected areas with one US network I think.
Relax mate - I'm not attacking the land of the Free - I think the US is wonderful. But they have to test tech - and it's cost/benefit somewhere. So they do it here - as we have similar populations, and land mass etc. Wasn't referring to the handsets necessarily - although your Verizon network uses analogue cell towers that were replaced (phased out) here over 10 years ago. Don't get defensive. I am an apple geek probably more than you are - but where I see a major problem looming - you seem to see nothing.
First of all, 4G LTE is a confusing term, since LTE is strictly speaking not 4G (yeah, yeah, here we go again).
Second, saying LTE was deployed in Perth first does not answer Sol's question about what tech is available only down under and not elsewhere. There are many countries with LTE deployed now. In fact, Australia is not even the first one with LTE (Norway and Sweden beat Perth by a few months).
All to say, I also see a major problem looming - you need to learn to stop changing the topics when engaged in a discussion or debate. And if you do change topics as a distraction tactic, at least get your facts perfectly straight. (Mind you, you're not way off, which is not bad around here. So, kudos)
Slammed? Where? All I see is denial from Apple users. If Android is not profitable, then why are all these hardware vendors still producing products? It's not slowing down at all. The smartphone market is growing...with Android, not Apple/iOS.
iOS not growing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by slapppy
Its so strange how strong Apple users are in such denial when the truth and future is showed to them.
Strong Apple users are in denial? I think it's the weak ones.
First of all, 4G LTE is a confusing term, since LTE is strictly speaking not 4G (yeah, yeah, here we go again).
Second, saying LTE was deployed in Perth first does not answer Sol's question about what tech is available only down under and not elsewhere. There are many countries with LTE deployed now. In fact, Australia is not even the first one with LTE (Norway and Sweden beat Perth by a few months).
All to say, I also see a major problem looming - you need to learn to stop changing the topics when engaged in a discussion or debate. And if you do change topics as a distraction tactic, at least get your facts perfectly straight. (Mind you, you're not way off, which is not bad around here. So, kudos)
Semantics. I'm not changing topics. Just being attacked by different people attacking different aspects of the original post - and trying to answer on the fly.
Secondly - the trial in Perth occurred well before an official rollout - anywhere to my knowledge.
Finally - I really don't need advice on argumentation and technique. I could spend time justifying all of these comments further to a standard expected in formal dissertation. But why bother. The facts are the facts.
Yet again totally unverified "estimates" of sales and shipments of devices by a firm of analysts that have frequently been proven wrong in the past are accepted and published as if they were facts. Just because they state something in a press release doesn't make it true!
Apple don't release their iPhone sales figures for Australia and NZ, and neither do Samsung. Nowhere in their press release do they say on what basis they reached these figures, but it certainly wasn't from any official company data. It was most likely based on estimates they magicked up out of surveys, "channel checks" and other vague and unverified methods that are the stock in trade of these firms. Techniques that have frequently been proven wrong in the past but no one ever seems to call BS on. Techniques that are the tech industry's version of astrology, and are about as reliable.
This is a poorly thought-out response and was exactly the complacency I referred to above. It doesn't matter that it's just aust and nz. These countries are battle grounds because companies fine tune strategy for the big leagues in the US and Europe. Android have gained massive ground here. That will translate into huge losses if it occurs in the UK or US. I remember the CLIE from Sony. A better device had never been released. And Sony shut it down. I am concerned that you are seeing the first evidence of tide turning. Failure to appreciate this by apple will see iOS marginalized within the year. As happened to Sony. It would be a typically American mistake not to learn from their past errors
I think you are overreacting. iOS just needs enough market share to survive and thrive. It doesn't need to be the top seller. It isn't as if John Sculley or Michael Spindler were named CEO. There is room for 2 or even 3 or 4 major mobile operating systems.
That said, I do think that Apple is secretly a fan of Windows Phone and Windows 8 ARM. Any growth that those operating systems experience will probably be largely at the expense of Android.
Semantics. I'm not changing topics. Just being attacked by different people attacking different aspects of the original post - and trying to answer on the fly.
Secondly - the trial in Perth occurred well before an official rollout - anywhere to my knowledge.
Finally - I really don't need advice on argumentation and technique. I could spend time justifying all of these comments further to a standard expected in formal dissertation. But why bother. The facts are the facts.
Except, some of your facts aren't. (But some are.)
Someone had one of these on the tram today - I couldn't believe how much it looked just like iOS. I mean, everything about it was almost excactly the same, even down to messages appearing in little speech bubbles on the left and right of the screen.
If I was Korean, I'd be pretty pissed at Samsung taking the easy road with their smart phones.
What does nationality have to do with anything?
Just from the way you are making your statements suggest to me that you are discriminatory.
If you think products are purchased solely on nationalistic pride, think again.
If that was truly the case, there wont be any sales in Korea for iPhones.
Comments
Thanks. What's crazy about the subsequent attacks is that in my house are - 2 iPads, 1 iMacs, 1 Mac pro and a MacBook air. I bought the coolaid. I love my apple gear. I just don't want to end up with the bestest Sony CLIES that are no longer supported...a la my first mac pro which was a G5 and which apple stopped supporting after apple care ran out after I bought it. They have form. I just want them to see the danger. And react. Rather than talk about sales versus volume and all that rubbish.
1) It's hard to take anyone seriously with comments like "I bought the coolaid."
2) Sales v. volume (I assume you mean shipped) isn't rubbish. It's questions the very nature of consumer interest. Over producing product and stuffing channels with "volume" you can't sell only costs a company money.
You keep saying that, but I see no evidence of new tech that is being given to AU and NZ that is different from the smartphone tech in other countries. Is Android OS more advanced there? Nope. How about the iPhone? Nope. So what Samsung smartphone only has tech for AU and NZ markets that isn't elsewhere in the world?
The 4G LTE networks you have rolling out in the US were tested in Perth, Australia before being deployed. The 3.5G network that they will replace has been here for close to ten years with Telstra. Vodafail, Optus and 3 are still using 2.5E and 3G gen 1 networks. Optus has some 3.5 coverge with the 900MHZ band. 3.5 is yet to arrive in much of the US. 4G is only available in selected areas with one US network I think.
Relax mate - I'm not attacking the land of the Free - I think the US is wonderful. But they have to test tech - and it's cost/benefit somewhere. So they do it here - as we have similar populations, and land mass etc. Wasn't referring to the handsets necessarily - although your Verizon network uses analogue cell towers that were replaced (phased out) here over 10 years ago. Don't get defensive. I am an apple geek probably more than you are - but where I see a major problem looming - you seem to see nothing.
1) It's hard to take anyone seriously with comments like "I bought the coolaid."
2) Sales v. volume (I assume you mean shipped) isn't rubbish. It's questions the very nature of consumer interest. Over producing product and stuffing channels with "volume" you can't sell only costs a company money.
Whether you take me seriously or not is irrelevant. The problem remains. Attack the ball - not the man mate. It just makes you look - well - small.
1) It's hard to take anyone seriously with comments like "I bought the coolaid."
2) Sales v. volume (I assume you mean shipped) isn't rubbish. It's questions the very nature of consumer interest. Over producing product and stuffing channels with "volume" you can't sell only costs a company money.
It is rubbish. It is an atefactual number - a snapshot in time. It makes no effort to analyze trend - and more importantly - projection.
I'd put money on Apple's profit margins being way above those of other vendors in Australia, as per the US and the rest of the world. Profits beats units shipped.
Sure - but as an end game - flooding the market for a period of two or three years or so - may be sustainable - just to drive iOS into submission? That's my question. It's what happened to Sony when with the CLIE - windows mobile was released in lots of crap handsets - flooding the market - and beating out a better piece of hardware and software. You're missing the point I think.
Are you sure they were iPhones or were they the Samsung clones?
It's no surprise Android has a larger shipment share considering there are a lot more vendors and phone models.
iOS is strong if you include (and you should) ALL iOS devices. Most apps on iOS doesn't care if it's an ipod touch, iphone, or ipad. That's what developers should look at.
Apple sells you an ecosystem. Samsung, HTC, etc., sell you a phone. Google sells you. Apple would love for you to buy a new phone every year but they rather get you to stay in the ecosystem and buy a new phone when you're ready. Samsung, HTC, etc. want you to buy a new phone every two years or sooner. That's why they don't upgrade to the latest OS and desupport you.
Your reply has so little to do with my original point, that it has educated me immensely on how some people just can't follow a course of logic.
Well, its just like Windows vs Mac again. In the end, Android will pretty much own the market worldwide. It doesn't mean Apple will be out of business, but they will have to concede the market to Google and their partners. Hopefully the 1% share that Steve Jobs was hoping for will be enough to sustain Apple iOS & hardware for the future.
There you go again with Android "owning" the market.
Didn't you get slammed yesterday by saying that very same thing?
Anyway... what does Google have other than the ability to say "our OS is on more phones" ?
Which is more important... OS market share or a company's profit?
Hint: you can't pay your rent with market share.
There you go again with Android "owning" the market.
Didn't you get slammed yesterday by saying that very same thing?
Anyway... what does Google have other than the ability to say "our OS is on more phones" ?
Which is more important... OS market share or a company's profit?
Hint: you can't pay your rent with market share.
Slammed? Where? All I see is denial from Apple users. If Android is not profitable, then why are all these hardware vendors still producing products? It's not slowing down at all. The smartphone market is growing...with Android, not Apple/iOS. So clearly companies are making money. They will continue to do so and more Android Smartphones and soon Tablets will proliferate the market. Its so strange how strong Apple users are in such denial when the truth and future is showed to them.
Nothing to do with not being open minded. In my experience (reasonable) - I am yet to meet one person who would not prefer an iPhone after a months use of either.
That's a different point than what you made before. But that's ok.
If android is allowed to copy slavishly and make cheap Asian clones - apple as a microcosm of the US.will share its economic fate - undermined by cheap labour and cheap clones. And when apple eventually gets beaten....android prices I'll go up all over again...like Microsoft.
"Like Microsoft" - a common refrain. But there's a problem with that analogy - you can't say history is repeating itself when chapters 1, 2 and 3 are dramatically different. Even, for the sake of argument, Android ends up commanding the same marketshare as Windows and iOS is relegated to 5%, it is still not Microsoft-Apple redux.
There you go again with Android "owning" the market.
Didn't you get slammed yesterday by saying that very same thing?
Anyway... what does Google have other than the ability to say "our OS is on more phones" ?
Which is more important... OS market share or a company's profit?
Hint: you can't pay your rent with market share.
Is Google having trouble paying rent? Samsung? HTC? Anyone?
Hint: none of the above.
Another hint: Stop repeating other people's arguments.
The smartphone market is growing...with Android, not Apple/iOS.
Latter half is completely wrong.
They will continue to do so and more Android Smartphones and soon Tablets will proliferate the market.
Because of how well that's worked for them so far?
Its so strange how strong Apple users are in such denial when the truth and future is showed to them.
Well, when you get some truth and future to show us, maybe we'll change our tune. As it stands?
The 4G LTE networks you have rolling out in the US were tested in Perth, Australia before being deployed. The 3.5G network that they will replace has been here for close to ten years with Telstra. Vodafail, Optus and 3 are still using 2.5E and 3G gen 1 networks. Optus has some 3.5 coverge with the 900MHZ band. 3.5 is yet to arrive in much of the US. 4G is only available in selected areas with one US network I think.
Relax mate - I'm not attacking the land of the Free - I think the US is wonderful. But they have to test tech - and it's cost/benefit somewhere. So they do it here - as we have similar populations, and land mass etc. Wasn't referring to the handsets necessarily - although your Verizon network uses analogue cell towers that were replaced (phased out) here over 10 years ago. Don't get defensive. I am an apple geek probably more than you are - but where I see a major problem looming - you seem to see nothing.
First of all, 4G LTE is a confusing term, since LTE is strictly speaking not 4G (yeah, yeah, here we go again).
Second, saying LTE was deployed in Perth first does not answer Sol's question about what tech is available only down under and not elsewhere. There are many countries with LTE deployed now. In fact, Australia is not even the first one with LTE (Norway and Sweden beat Perth by a few months).
All to say, I also see a major problem looming - you need to learn to stop changing the topics when engaged in a discussion or debate. And if you do change topics as a distraction tactic, at least get your facts perfectly straight. (Mind you, you're not way off, which is not bad around here. So, kudos)
Slammed? Where? All I see is denial from Apple users. If Android is not profitable, then why are all these hardware vendors still producing products? It's not slowing down at all. The smartphone market is growing...with Android, not Apple/iOS.
iOS not growing?
Its so strange how strong Apple users are in such denial when the truth and future is showed to them.
Strong Apple users are in denial? I think it's the weak ones.
First of all, 4G LTE is a confusing term, since LTE is strictly speaking not 4G (yeah, yeah, here we go again).
Second, saying LTE was deployed in Perth first does not answer Sol's question about what tech is available only down under and not elsewhere. There are many countries with LTE deployed now. In fact, Australia is not even the first one with LTE (Norway and Sweden beat Perth by a few months).
All to say, I also see a major problem looming - you need to learn to stop changing the topics when engaged in a discussion or debate. And if you do change topics as a distraction tactic, at least get your facts perfectly straight. (Mind you, you're not way off, which is not bad around here. So, kudos)
Semantics. I'm not changing topics. Just being attacked by different people attacking different aspects of the original post - and trying to answer on the fly.
Secondly - the trial in Perth occurred well before an official rollout - anywhere to my knowledge.
Finally - I really don't need advice on argumentation and technique. I could spend time justifying all of these comments further to a standard expected in formal dissertation. But why bother. The facts are the facts.
Apple don't release their iPhone sales figures for Australia and NZ, and neither do Samsung. Nowhere in their press release do they say on what basis they reached these figures, but it certainly wasn't from any official company data. It was most likely based on estimates they magicked up out of surveys, "channel checks" and other vague and unverified methods that are the stock in trade of these firms. Techniques that have frequently been proven wrong in the past but no one ever seems to call BS on. Techniques that are the tech industry's version of astrology, and are about as reliable.
This is a poorly thought-out response and was exactly the complacency I referred to above. It doesn't matter that it's just aust and nz. These countries are battle grounds because companies fine tune strategy for the big leagues in the US and Europe. Android have gained massive ground here. That will translate into huge losses if it occurs in the UK or US. I remember the CLIE from Sony. A better device had never been released. And Sony shut it down. I am concerned that you are seeing the first evidence of tide turning. Failure to appreciate this by apple will see iOS marginalized within the year. As happened to Sony. It would be a typically American mistake not to learn from their past errors
I think you are overreacting. iOS just needs enough market share to survive and thrive. It doesn't need to be the top seller. It isn't as if John Sculley or Michael Spindler were named CEO. There is room for 2 or even 3 or 4 major mobile operating systems.
That said, I do think that Apple is secretly a fan of Windows Phone and Windows 8 ARM. Any growth that those operating systems experience will probably be largely at the expense of Android.
Semantics. I'm not changing topics. Just being attacked by different people attacking different aspects of the original post - and trying to answer on the fly.
Secondly - the trial in Perth occurred well before an official rollout - anywhere to my knowledge.
Finally - I really don't need advice on argumentation and technique. I could spend time justifying all of these comments further to a standard expected in formal dissertation. But why bother. The facts are the facts.
Except, some of your facts aren't. (But some are.)
Someone had one of these on the tram today - I couldn't believe how much it looked just like iOS. I mean, everything about it was almost excactly the same, even down to messages appearing in little speech bubbles on the left and right of the screen.
If I was Korean, I'd be pretty pissed at Samsung taking the easy road with their smart phones.
What does nationality have to do with anything?
Just from the way you are making your statements suggest to me that you are discriminatory.
If you think products are purchased solely on nationalistic pride, think again.
If that was truly the case, there wont be any sales in Korea for iPhones.
What does nationality have to do with anything?
Just from the way you are making your statements suggest to me that you are discriminatory.
If you think products are purchased solely on nationalistic pride, think again.
If that was truly the case, there wont be any sales in Korea for iPhones.
Perhaps the South Koreans are proud of the A4/A5, the NAND and the Retina Display?