The consistent "Everything Apple does is the right, fair and best thing possible" attitude here is both ridiculous and hilarious. At least it gives me something to chuckle about in the morning.
Frankly, I'm surprised Apple has allowed brick-n-mortar resellers for this long.
You are aware that Apple didnt always had brick-n-mortar stores right? Its not the first time I ear about Apple Stores keeping all the inventories for themselves. It did headlines here in Montreal at the ipad 1 launch. It did improved for the ipad 2 and iphone 4s. Apple need those resellers it cant handle all the retail sales everywhere.
I have mixed feelings regarding dealerships, here have been good ones and bad ones over the years but no one can deny the success of Apple's own stores and they have in a large part been key in Apple's change of fortunes. The drive to consumer based products has made this all the more necessary. There used to be a need for high end specialists, my company used to sell high end publishing systems to magazines and newspapers and had to carry various makes of digital postscript driven typesetters and all sorts of expensive and specialized equipment such as drum scanners... and know how to use them. Those days are long gone with even the high end video editing studious being offered a simplistic product now. So Apple Stores are all Apple need.
BTW... We already know a computer had to be called l'ordinateur in France.... I have been waiting the ruling by 'Le Ministry' to force Apple to trade under the name "La Pomme"
If Apple doesn't want resellers, or a particular reseller, this is their right. But if they do authorize resellers, and those resellers are meeting Apple's guidelines, then Apple should provide them reasonable appropriate access to their products.
Likely, Apple has, and has some formula that determines allocation based on revenue, square footage, etc... - the reseller in question simply may not like the methodology or is questioning the fairness.
Apple reseller agreements are highly detailed, but if there is/are some unfair trade practice(s0 contained in them, governing local laws would supersede the agreement.
No matter how well run a reseller is however, its nearly impossible to compete with Apple selling their hardware - the margins are too thin, and Apple can offer staffing/support options/exchanges that would break the bank of an independent. Their focus needs to be on high quality training, extended (on-site) support, small business focus, third party product expertise, etc...
Very well said, sadly your last paragraph discusses an almost extinct breed now. How many value added areas are left these days? It is sad, they were fun times and lucrative for those of us in those areas but Apple itself was always struggling during those days we should not forget. Examples are still there, such as Microspot in the UK who were always involved in specialist areas such as CAD and plotter drivers and had excellent management but there are precious few like that left.
Apple is currently in a position, where it can deal with many Retailers the way it wants.
They have all the assets and the retailers are more and more forced in a corner.
One thing they should consider however is, what if, in the future, Apple isn't doing so well? Say, in 15 years Apple had to close many stores, they need to compete on more places and so forth.
At that point, they would again need the retailers to survive. If the retailers however look back at the past and see how Apple threated retailers before, why should they invest in Apple anymore?
This is of course pure speculation, but Apple WILL struggle one day. Maybe not soon, but its inevitable to happen at some point in the future.
Instead of crippling those who helped Apple in the bad days, they should at least sustain a healthy relationship.
You are aware that Apple didnt always had brick-n-mortar stores right? Its not the first time I ear about Apple Stores keeping all the inventories for themselves. It did headlines here in Montreal at the ipad 1 launch. It did improved for the ipad 2 and iphone 4s. Apple need those resellers it cant handle all the retail sales everywhere.
People are being ridiculous. Of course Apple is going to stock its own stores first and then everyone else will get the overflow. Duhhh! Common sense would tell these resellers that. They should be thankful Apple is allowing them to sell and make a profit off of their products at all.
It's not logical to expect anything else. If they don't like the agreement, well they don't have to sell Apple's products. Apple is basically giving up their profits so these resellers can sell....and who knows what other items they sell because people know they are resellers just from stocking the apple stuff in their stores at all.
Apple is selling their products as fast as they can make them. The retailers need to be patient. I think it's just something else to gripe about. If Apple wasn't making any money and there was no demand the retailers simply wouldn't be complaining.
Sadly they are going to crush those stores that served as an efficient outlet for them before they arrived on the scene.
Nothing sad about it.
Apple is a business. Business is business.
Apple makes a full-boat retailer's profit when they sell direct. When they sell to a reseller, they only make a wholesaler's profit. The reseller gets to keep a lot of Apple's money. Apple makes MUCH more money when people buy direct.
The reseller's are siphoning off Apple's profits! Apple makes the most money when every customer buys direct. Screw the resellers. They are nothing but parasites.
where i study (FEUP) there's more and more macs/iphones/ipads. we deserve that store.
not only that, it would makes us much more confident when buying apple products.
And there is the rub. In your original post you indicated Apple needs the resellers... But now you say (effectively) that the resellers need Apple retail as well.
I am similarly torn. I am getting sick of the Apple Stores-- they are too crowded, and it is the worst place to buy new products. The last two iPhones I bought were at AT&T stores, despite how much I can't stand them.
If Apple put a flagship store in Lisbon, would that solve your concern in Porto... Or would they need one in Porto and one in Faro to round things out? Three or four stores would wipe out all the resellers in the country.
Apple is in business for one reason. To make money. Anything they can legally do to maximize profits, they will do. If disadvantaging resellers achieves this, they will have no compunctions about doing so.
Jobs was smart. Sell a good, proprietary product at a premium price, and you can do quite well in the long term, thank you very much. Cutting out resellers just rakes in more margin for the big A.
Proper procedure though is to stock based on sell-through. Stocking company stores first as a policy *is* discriminatory.
I'm sure it's based on sell through. The average apple store sells way more Apple stuff and Apple doesn't have to give up any of the profits. But I'm sure Tim Cook takes into consideration the sell-through rates. He didn't get to where he is by being stupid. Apple sells out of their hottest products very quickly.
This whole thing is just something else to gripe at apple about. Why be only a mac reseller? I know the resellers here in NYC sell PC stuff too. They don't just sell MAC stuff. You can't be dedicated to one thing when you are simply a reseller.
And there is the rub. In your original post you indicated Apple needs the resellers... But now you say (effectively) that the resellers need Apple retail as well.
I am similarly torn. I am getting sick of the Apple Stores-- they are too crowded, and it is the worst place to buy new products. The last two iPhones I bought were at AT&T stores, despite how much I can't stand them.
If Apple put a flagship store in Lisbon, would that solve your concern in Porto... Or would they need one in Porto and one in Faro to round things out? Three or four stores would wipe out all the resellers in the country.
one store in Lisbon would be great, really..
However one in Porto would be really close to the UP (especially FEUP) and UM (especially their guimaraes buildinds).
Both FEUP (first) and UM engineering are the best engineering schools in the country (you can also speak about ISEP) and both have the potential to be apple's biggest portuguese clients (well, their students).
it has much more advantages building one apple store in porto.
Not to mention the fact that the north has more population.
But i know that Portugal is a small country and generally people don't have the € needed to buy apple products BUT:
- there's no middle terms here. there's people who are really poor and the others that live really good. those will buy apple products.
-Portuguese people are funny. once they realize that apple products provide some "status", they will buy them even if they have to stop eating
2 or 3 apple stores would destroy the resellers, but one? it would be so much better. Even if no one was buying anything from apple (they will), they would feel safer. i had that dogma when i bought my 1700€ air. what if something was wrong??? would i have to wait 2 or 3 months for a fix that could never be perfect?
People in the states are lucky. here, not so much.
it can be painfull (not really... let's not overreact) to see all those galaxy tabs and galaxy note in all channels, games, etc and people praising samesung against the bad fruit (sarcasm) simply because we (the country) don't know/trust apple.
Portuguese people trusts their fridges, samesung fridges..
so they will buy samsung. all of my girlfriend's family have samesung "smart"phones.
and iphone 4s here costs 650€.
the galaxy s2 450€.
we earn 450.
the galaxy get's much more publicity than the iphone...
the average people don't know why an iphone is better even if it looks better.
can you blame them for buying samesung?
can you blame me to use an android phone (x10 mini pro)?
i "can't" buy an iphone. maybe a ipod touch in the future.
Of course Apple is going to favor its own stores. They make more money that way. Third party retailers have their place where there isn't enough traffic for an official Apple Store. In addition, kiosks/sections at Best Buy etc may persuade potential Windows buyers into considering a Mac/iPad.
In any case, if the third party retailer wants a lot of product, put down the $$$ to get it. Just like Apple drops $$$ on the supply chain side.
Well really. Who says they have to give the phone to resellers in the first place? They invented it, it's theirs to do with as they please. Shut up and be grateful you silly old frog.
Ah, casual racism. I wouldn't expect anything less from a fat yank like you.
Comments
Frankly, I'm surprised Apple has allowed brick-n-mortar resellers for this long.
You are aware that Apple didnt always had brick-n-mortar stores right? Its not the first time I ear about Apple Stores keeping all the inventories for themselves. It did headlines here in Montreal at the ipad 1 launch. It did improved for the ipad 2 and iphone 4s. Apple need those resellers it cant handle all the retail sales everywhere.
BTW... We already know a computer had to be called l'ordinateur in France.... I have been waiting the ruling by 'Le Ministry' to force Apple to trade under the name "La Pomme"
If Apple doesn't want resellers, or a particular reseller, this is their right. But if they do authorize resellers, and those resellers are meeting Apple's guidelines, then Apple should provide them reasonable appropriate access to their products.
Likely, Apple has, and has some formula that determines allocation based on revenue, square footage, etc... - the reseller in question simply may not like the methodology or is questioning the fairness.
Apple reseller agreements are highly detailed, but if there is/are some unfair trade practice(s0 contained in them, governing local laws would supersede the agreement.
No matter how well run a reseller is however, its nearly impossible to compete with Apple selling their hardware - the margins are too thin, and Apple can offer staffing/support options/exchanges that would break the bank of an independent. Their focus needs to be on high quality training, extended (on-site) support, small business focus, third party product expertise, etc...
Very well said, sadly your last paragraph discusses an almost extinct breed now. How many value added areas are left these days? It is sad, they were fun times and lucrative for those of us in those areas but Apple itself was always struggling during those days we should not forget. Examples are still there, such as Microspot in the UK who were always involved in specialist areas such as CAD and plotter drivers and had excellent management but there are precious few like that left.
They have all the assets and the retailers are more and more forced in a corner.
One thing they should consider however is, what if, in the future, Apple isn't doing so well? Say, in 15 years Apple had to close many stores, they need to compete on more places and so forth.
At that point, they would again need the retailers to survive. If the retailers however look back at the past and see how Apple threated retailers before, why should they invest in Apple anymore?
This is of course pure speculation, but Apple WILL struggle one day. Maybe not soon, but its inevitable to happen at some point in the future.
Instead of crippling those who helped Apple in the bad days, they should at least sustain a healthy relationship.
You are aware that Apple didnt always had brick-n-mortar stores right? Its not the first time I ear about Apple Stores keeping all the inventories for themselves. It did headlines here in Montreal at the ipad 1 launch. It did improved for the ipad 2 and iphone 4s. Apple need those resellers it cant handle all the retail sales everywhere.
People are being ridiculous. Of course Apple is going to stock its own stores first and then everyone else will get the overflow. Duhhh! Common sense would tell these resellers that. They should be thankful Apple is allowing them to sell and make a profit off of their products at all.
It's not logical to expect anything else. If they don't like the agreement, well they don't have to sell Apple's products. Apple is basically giving up their profits so these resellers can sell....and who knows what other items they sell because people know they are resellers just from stocking the apple stuff in their stores at all.
Apple is selling their products as fast as they can make them. The retailers need to be patient. I think it's just something else to gripe about. If Apple wasn't making any money and there was no demand the retailers simply wouldn't be complaining.
They should be thankful Apple is allowing them to sell and make a profit off of their products at all.
Actually with margins well below 10%, the retailers don't make a profit off the products. They make profit (if at all) from support and teaching
Apple does not need France...
Who does Apple need?
You did now Madrid is in Spain, not Portugal (different country, different language) ?
Why doesn't Portugal just simply become part of Spain? Its kind of like Delaware and Maryland. What's the point?
Sadly they are going to crush those stores that served as an efficient outlet for them before they arrived on the scene.
Nothing sad about it.
Apple is a business. Business is business.
Apple makes a full-boat retailer's profit when they sell direct. When they sell to a reseller, they only make a wholesaler's profit. The reseller gets to keep a lot of Apple's money. Apple makes MUCH more money when people buy direct.
The reseller's are siphoning off Apple's profits! Apple makes the most money when every customer buys direct. Screw the resellers. They are nothing but parasites.
where i study (FEUP) there's more and more macs/iphones/ipads. we deserve that store.
not only that, it would makes us much more confident when buying apple products.
And there is the rub. In your original post you indicated Apple needs the resellers... But now you say (effectively) that the resellers need Apple retail as well.
I am similarly torn. I am getting sick of the Apple Stores-- they are too crowded, and it is the worst place to buy new products. The last two iPhones I bought were at AT&T stores, despite how much I can't stand them.
If Apple put a flagship store in Lisbon, would that solve your concern in Porto... Or would they need one in Porto and one in Faro to round things out? Three or four stores would wipe out all the resellers in the country.
They should be thankful Apple is allowing them to sell and make a profit off of their products at all.
But are they? Noooo.......
All they do is whine.
Apple needs to punish these guys so bad that they beg for Apple to stop. Then maybe they will have sufficient gratitude towards Apple.
Of course Apple is going to stock its own stores first and then everyone else will get the overflow.
Proper procedure though is to stock based on sell-through. Stocking company stores first as a policy *is* discriminatory.
Jobs was smart. Sell a good, proprietary product at a premium price, and you can do quite well in the long term, thank you very much. Cutting out resellers just rakes in more margin for the big A.
Proper procedure though is to stock based on sell-through. Stocking company stores first as a policy *is* discriminatory.
I'm sure it's based on sell through. The average apple store sells way more Apple stuff and Apple doesn't have to give up any of the profits. But I'm sure Tim Cook takes into consideration the sell-through rates. He didn't get to where he is by being stupid. Apple sells out of their hottest products very quickly.
This whole thing is just something else to gripe at apple about. Why be only a mac reseller? I know the resellers here in NYC sell PC stuff too. They don't just sell MAC stuff. You can't be dedicated to one thing when you are simply a reseller.
Who does Apple need?
Apple is a rock. Apple is an island.
It is the French, I'm surprised they just didn't surrender.
or
So it is wrong for Farmers to feed their family before they sell to others? Odd.
And there is the rub. In your original post you indicated Apple needs the resellers... But now you say (effectively) that the resellers need Apple retail as well.
I am similarly torn. I am getting sick of the Apple Stores-- they are too crowded, and it is the worst place to buy new products. The last two iPhones I bought were at AT&T stores, despite how much I can't stand them.
If Apple put a flagship store in Lisbon, would that solve your concern in Porto... Or would they need one in Porto and one in Faro to round things out? Three or four stores would wipe out all the resellers in the country.
one store in Lisbon would be great, really..
However one in Porto would be really close to the UP (especially FEUP) and UM (especially their guimaraes buildinds).
Both FEUP (first) and UM engineering are the best engineering schools in the country (you can also speak about ISEP) and both have the potential to be apple's biggest portuguese clients (well, their students).
it has much more advantages building one apple store in porto.
Not to mention the fact that the north has more population.
But i know that Portugal is a small country and generally people don't have the € needed to buy apple products BUT:
- there's no middle terms here. there's people who are really poor and the others that live really good. those will buy apple products.
-Portuguese people are funny. once they realize that apple products provide some "status", they will buy them even if they have to stop eating
2 or 3 apple stores would destroy the resellers, but one? it would be so much better. Even if no one was buying anything from apple (they will), they would feel safer. i had that dogma when i bought my 1700€ air. what if something was wrong??? would i have to wait 2 or 3 months for a fix that could never be perfect?
People in the states are lucky. here, not so much.
it can be painfull (not really... let's not overreact) to see all those galaxy tabs and galaxy note in all channels, games, etc and people praising samesung against the bad fruit (sarcasm) simply because we (the country) don't know/trust apple.
Portuguese people trusts their fridges, samesung fridges..
so they will buy samsung. all of my girlfriend's family have samesung "smart"phones.
and iphone 4s here costs 650€.
the galaxy s2 450€.
we earn 450.
the galaxy get's much more publicity than the iphone...
the average people don't know why an iphone is better even if it looks better.
can you blame them for buying samesung?
can you blame me to use an android phone (x10 mini pro)?
i "can't" buy an iphone. maybe a ipod touch in the future.
In any case, if the third party retailer wants a lot of product, put down the $$$ to get it. Just like Apple drops $$$ on the supply chain side.
Well really. Who says they have to give the phone to resellers in the first place? They invented it, it's theirs to do with as they please. Shut up and be grateful you silly old frog.
Ah, casual racism. I wouldn't expect anything less from a fat yank like you.