. . . which is one of the points I was making when I mentioned the almost 20 year old IBM Simon touchscreen phone. It didn't have any buttons either, using finger presses or an optional stylus to select and/or modify menu items and lists.
Still continuing with the baseless bullshit, Gatorguy? You haven't presented any evidence that working with lists on the Simon was anything at all like working with lists in iOS. Frankly, I don't think you know anything about the Simon, and have never even touched one. Once again, you seem to be just making shit up, and hoping that you won't get called out for it.
Still continuing with the baseless bullshit, Gatorguy? You haven't presented any evidence that working with lists on the Simon was anything at all like working with lists in iOS. Frankly, I don't think you know anything about the Simon, and have never even touched one. Once again, you seem to be just making shit up, and hoping that you won't get called out for it.
Consider yourself called out for lying... again.
Lying? Come on now...you have no evidence for lying...what you should be doing is repeatedly asking for evidence of his claims otherwise completely dismiss him as mistaken, misguided, or quite possibly lying...but to jump to that isn't a logical conclusion.
Edit: having looked at the Simon briefly on Youtube I am under the impression he is mistaken in what the patent covers as I cannot see that phone having any sort of "drag" ability...but I don't think he's lying as you extremely put it...Lying implies intent.
If it's not difficult to understand, what do you see as the difference in the way the Simon editted/accessed items in a list and Apple's patent?
I you posted a link with a couple of poor screenshots. Nothing showed a patent describing how the Simon interface worked, you posted no video of the Simon interface in comparison to iOS/CocoaTouch UI, nor did you make any attempt to describe how Simon's UI is a rip of the way CocoaTouch works in regards to Apple's patents. All you did is find something with a touch interface that predates the iPhone.
Lying? Come on now...you have no evidence for lying...what you should be doing is repeatedly asking for evidence of his claims otherwise completely dismiss him as mistaken, misguided, or quite possibly lying...but to jump to that isn't a logical conclusion.
Edit: having looked at the Simon briefly on Youtube I am under the impression he is mistaken in what the patent covers as I cannot see that phone having any sort of "drag" ability...but I don't think he's lying as you extremely put it...Lying implies intent.
The intent is obviously there. He knows he can't support those claims, he knows he doesn't have a clue what capabilities Simon had. That's why he's ignoring the requests for substantiation. That's his MO, his history here is replete with lies and half truths, and that's what he gets paid for. So, yes, he's intentionally bullshitting with the hope to deceive... lying
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
I you posted a link with a couple of poor screenshots. Nothing showed a patent describing how the Simon interface worked, you posted no video of the Simon interface in comparison to iOS/CocoaTouch UI, nor did you make any attempt to describe how Simon's UI is a rip of the way CocoaTouch works in regards to Apple's patents. All you did is find something with a touch interface that predates the iPhone.
... Something which no one is likely able to get their hands on to verify his claims. And, really, does anyone here believe that Gatorguy has ever had his hands on a Simon? No.
The intent is obviously there. He knows he can't support those claims, he knows he doesn't have a clue what capabilities Simon had. That's why he's ignoring the requests for substantiation. That's his MO, his history here is replete with lies and half truths, and that's what he gets paid for. So, yes, he's intentionally bullshitting with the hope to deceive... lying
... Something which no one is likely able to get their hands on to verify his claims. And, really, does anyone here believe that Gatorguy has ever had his hands on a Simon? No.
I can deftly refute his claims and prove the IBM Simon could not edit lists the way Apple's patent demonstrates.
Note that it uses a resistive touchscreen, not a capacitive touchscreen.
EXHIBIT B: Image from the patent filing with a comparison of how editing lists work in iOS.
Conclusion: There is no way for the IBM Simon to allow for the repositioning of a virtual item by dragging it across the screen and placing it in a new virtual location.
I you posted a link with a couple of poor screenshots. Nothing showed a patent describing how the Simon interface worked, you posted no video of the Simon interface in comparison to iOS/CocoaTouch UI, nor did you make any attempt to describe how Simon's UI is a rip of the way CocoaTouch works in regards to Apple's patents. All you did is find something with a touch interface that predates the iPhone.
That's why I posed the question for you Solipsism. I was trying to identify the claim vs Simon. I was hoping you understood better what the Apple touch patent did that the Simon did not. Neither relies on any physical buttons, and both use touch to move thru the menu items and make selections. But no multi-touch on the Simon.
Figured you did a video search. There's several videos on the Simon on Youtube, but none are that great, I agree. Do a search for IBM Simon video for several different choices.
Conclusion: There is no way for the IBM Simon to allow for the repositioning of a virtual item by dragging it across the screen and placing it in a new virtual location.
Perfect! That's really all I wanted to know. I was never claiming they were the same, only that I wasn't clear on what the difference was, if any.
Much appreciated.
EDIT: Thanks for the Anonymouse quotes too. I wasn't sure if he had changed his stripes and decided personal attacks and ad-homs weren't the way to win an argument and demonstrate intelligence. I see he hasn't, so leaving him on my iggy list is still the best thing to do.
If it's not difficult to understand, what do you see as the difference in the way the Simon editted/accessed items in a list and Apple's patent?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy
. . . which is one of the points I was making when I mentioned the almost 20 year old IBM Simon touchscreen phone. It didn't have any buttons either, using finger presses or an optional stylus to select and/or modify menu items and lists.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy
Perfect! That's really all I wanted to know. I was never claiming they were the same, only that I wasn't clear on what the difference was, if any.
Much appreciated.
I'm sorry, but every one of those top 3 quotes puts out the impression that you have experience w/the Simon and that you are implying it functions in the same way. Saying "Hey that isn't what I was saying at all, I wanted clarification" is very disingenuous of you.
I'm sorry, but every one of those top 3 quotes puts out the impression that you have experience w/the Simon and that you are implying it functions in the same way. Saying "Hey that isn't what I was saying at all, I wanted clarification" is very disingenuous of you.
I absolutely WAS saying that it appeared to work the same way from what I could see. I have no idea where you got the idea I had used one.
Solipsism took the time to research it further (obviously understanding it better than I did) and explained why it was not. I never claimed it DID factually work the same way, regardless of your wish that I had.
I absolutely WAS saying that it appeared to work the same way from what I could see. I have no idea where you got the idea I had used one.
Solipsism took the time to research it further (obviously understanding it better than I did) and explained why it was not. I never claimed it DID factually work the same way, regardless of your wish that I had.
Why would you seem to have a problem with that?
Because your revisionist explanation is total bullshit. SSquirrel nailed it, and you.
You were up to your usual disingenuous tricks, got caught, and are now trying to spin what you did as something else entirely. It's disgusting that Google and its Android partners feel they have to hire lying shills like you to go around to tech blogs and spread misinformation. But, your character speaks to their characters, and everyone should take note.
Because your revisionist explanation is total bullshit. SSquirrel nailed it, and you.
You were up to your usual disingenuous tricks, got caught, and are now trying to spin what you did as something else entirely. It's disgusting that Google and its Android partners feel they have to hire lying shills like you to go around to tech blogs and spread misinformation. But, your character speaks to their characters, and everyone should take note.
I'd say things about you...but then I'd be banned again.
You sure as hell do love your conspiracy theories, however.
I'd say things about you...but then I'd be banned again.
You sure as hell do love your conspiracy theories, however.
I'd rather you hadn't quoted him, and there's no reason to defend me. His opinion is of no importance to me whatsoever and he simply repeats himself for the most part. He's completely irrelevant to my place in life.
Can you show me examples of where that exact same action was done with a stylus?
Do you miss my point about it being very generic? Finger, stylus, mouse cursor, or a Swedish meatball. The only difference is the particular pointing device. I don't understand why such a thing is patentable. It's the same actions already carried out to edit lists in numerous programs:
a.) Select button to activate list editing mode
b.) Select item to move
c.) Move selected item to new location in list
d.) Select button to save list changes
That's what the list edit patent comes down to. Where is the originality in that?
The mouse cursor is just a virtual representation of a finger (as is glaringly obvious by the fact that the mouse cursor turns into a hand in a browser to select a link).
I'd rather you hadn't quoted him, and there's no reason to defend me. His opinion is of no importance to me whatsoever and he simply repeats himself for the most part. He's completely irrelevant to my place in life.
There are two types of people I disagree with here...one type I respect (and thankfully are the majority as beyond the bullshit this is a rather mature board with rather mature people)
anonymouse is not a respectable poster. He's a step above Apple ][ which, being just a step, is a pretty shitty place to be.
I'd rather you hadn't quoted him, and there's no reason to defend me. His opinion is of no importance to me whatsoever and he simply repeats himself for the most part. He's completely irrelevant to my place in life.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AbsoluteDesignz
There are two types of people I disagree with here...one type I respect (and thankfully are the majority as beyond the bullshit this is a rather mature board with rather mature people)
anonymouse is not a respectable poster. He's a step above Apple ][ which, being just a step, is a pretty shitty place to be.
I love it when you guys get all chummy and into the whole bonding thing.
Comments
. . . which is one of the points I was making when I mentioned the almost 20 year old IBM Simon touchscreen phone. It didn't have any buttons either, using finger presses or an optional stylus to select and/or modify menu items and lists.
Still continuing with the baseless bullshit, Gatorguy? You haven't presented any evidence that working with lists on the Simon was anything at all like working with lists in iOS. Frankly, I don't think you know anything about the Simon, and have never even touched one. Once again, you seem to be just making shit up, and hoping that you won't get called out for it.
Consider yourself called out for lying... again.
Still continuing with the baseless bullshit, Gatorguy? You haven't presented any evidence that working with lists on the Simon was anything at all like working with lists in iOS. Frankly, I don't think you know anything about the Simon, and have never even touched one. Once again, you seem to be just making shit up, and hoping that you won't get called out for it.
Consider yourself called out for lying... again.
Lying? Come on now...you have no evidence for lying...what you should be doing is repeatedly asking for evidence of his claims otherwise completely dismiss him as mistaken, misguided, or quite possibly lying...but to jump to that isn't a logical conclusion.
Edit: having looked at the Simon briefly on Youtube I am under the impression he is mistaken in what the patent covers as I cannot see that phone having any sort of "drag" ability...but I don't think he's lying as you extremely put it...Lying implies intent.
If it's not difficult to understand, what do you see as the difference in the way the Simon editted/accessed items in a list and Apple's patent?
I you posted a link with a couple of poor screenshots. Nothing showed a patent describing how the Simon interface worked, you posted no video of the Simon interface in comparison to iOS/CocoaTouch UI, nor did you make any attempt to describe how Simon's UI is a rip of the way CocoaTouch works in regards to Apple's patents. All you did is find something with a touch interface that predates the iPhone.
Lying? Come on now...you have no evidence for lying...what you should be doing is repeatedly asking for evidence of his claims otherwise completely dismiss him as mistaken, misguided, or quite possibly lying...but to jump to that isn't a logical conclusion.
Edit: having looked at the Simon briefly on Youtube I am under the impression he is mistaken in what the patent covers as I cannot see that phone having any sort of "drag" ability...but I don't think he's lying as you extremely put it...Lying implies intent.
The intent is obviously there. He knows he can't support those claims, he knows he doesn't have a clue what capabilities Simon had. That's why he's ignoring the requests for substantiation. That's his MO, his history here is replete with lies and half truths, and that's what he gets paid for. So, yes, he's intentionally bullshitting with the hope to deceive... lying
I you posted a link with a couple of poor screenshots. Nothing showed a patent describing how the Simon interface worked, you posted no video of the Simon interface in comparison to iOS/CocoaTouch UI, nor did you make any attempt to describe how Simon's UI is a rip of the way CocoaTouch works in regards to Apple's patents. All you did is find something with a touch interface that predates the iPhone.
... Something which no one is likely able to get their hands on to verify his claims. And, really, does anyone here believe that Gatorguy has ever had his hands on a Simon? No.
The intent is obviously there. He knows he can't support those claims, he knows he doesn't have a clue what capabilities Simon had. That's why he's ignoring the requests for substantiation. That's his MO, his history here is replete with lies and half truths, and that's what he gets paid for. So, yes, he's intentionally bullshitting with the hope to deceive... lying
... Something which no one is likely able to get their hands on to verify his claims. And, really, does anyone here believe that Gatorguy has ever had his hands on a Simon? No.
I can deftly refute his claims and prove the IBM Simon could not edit lists the way Apple's patent demonstrates.
EXHIBIT A: Video of IBM Simon
- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjqNIr5uV1k
Note that it uses a resistive touchscreen, not a capacitive touchscreen.EXHIBIT B: Image from the patent filing with a comparison of how editing lists work in iOS.Conclusion: There is no way for the IBM Simon to allow for the repositioning of a virtual item by dragging it across the screen and placing it in a new virtual location.
I you posted a link with a couple of poor screenshots. Nothing showed a patent describing how the Simon interface worked, you posted no video of the Simon interface in comparison to iOS/CocoaTouch UI, nor did you make any attempt to describe how Simon's UI is a rip of the way CocoaTouch works in regards to Apple's patents. All you did is find something with a touch interface that predates the iPhone.
That's why I posed the question for you Solipsism. I was trying to identify the claim vs Simon. I was hoping you understood better what the Apple touch patent did that the Simon did not. Neither relies on any physical buttons, and both use touch to move thru the menu items and make selections. But no multi-touch on the Simon.
Figured you did a video search. There's several videos on the Simon on Youtube, but none are that great, I agree. Do a search for IBM Simon video for several different choices.
(Love this one. Campy and "better than Android"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUG7nwMmoUc
Conclusion: There is no way for the IBM Simon to allow for the repositioning of a virtual item by dragging it across the screen and placing it in a new virtual location.
Perfect! That's really all I wanted to know. I was never claiming they were the same, only that I wasn't clear on what the difference was, if any.
Much appreciated.
EDIT: Thanks for the Anonymouse quotes too. I wasn't sure if he had changed his stripes and decided personal attacks and ad-homs weren't the way to win an argument and demonstrate intelligence. I see he hasn't, so leaving him on my iggy list is still the best thing to do.
This particular touchscreen patent doesn't look to be anymore than what IBM Simon, the "original touchscreen phone", did back in '93.
For those unfamiliar with it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_Simon
If it's not difficult to understand, what do you see as the difference in the way the Simon editted/accessed items in a list and Apple's patent?
. . . which is one of the points I was making when I mentioned the almost 20 year old IBM Simon touchscreen phone. It didn't have any buttons either, using finger presses or an optional stylus to select and/or modify menu items and lists.
Perfect! That's really all I wanted to know. I was never claiming they were the same, only that I wasn't clear on what the difference was, if any.
Much appreciated.
I'm sorry, but every one of those top 3 quotes puts out the impression that you have experience w/the Simon and that you are implying it functions in the same way. Saying "Hey that isn't what I was saying at all, I wanted clarification" is very disingenuous of you.
I'm sorry, but every one of those top 3 quotes puts out the impression that you have experience w/the Simon and that you are implying it functions in the same way. Saying "Hey that isn't what I was saying at all, I wanted clarification" is very disingenuous of you.
I absolutely WAS saying that it appeared to work the same way from what I could see. I have no idea where you got the idea I had used one.
Solipsism took the time to research it further (obviously understanding it better than I did) and explained why it was not. I never claimed it DID factually work the same way, regardless of your wish that I had.
Why would you seem to have a problem with that?
I absolutely WAS saying that it appeared to work the same way from what I could see. I have no idea where you got the idea I had used one.
Solipsism took the time to research it further (obviously understanding it better than I did) and explained why it was not. I never claimed it DID factually work the same way, regardless of your wish that I had.
Why would you seem to have a problem with that?
Because your revisionist explanation is total bullshit. SSquirrel nailed it, and you.
You were up to your usual disingenuous tricks, got caught, and are now trying to spin what you did as something else entirely. It's disgusting that Google and its Android partners feel they have to hire lying shills like you to go around to tech blogs and spread misinformation. But, your character speaks to their characters, and everyone should take note.
Because your revisionist explanation is total bullshit. SSquirrel nailed it, and you.
You were up to your usual disingenuous tricks, got caught, and are now trying to spin what you did as something else entirely. It's disgusting that Google and its Android partners feel they have to hire lying shills like you to go around to tech blogs and spread misinformation. But, your character speaks to their characters, and everyone should take note.
I'd say things about you...but then I'd be banned again.
You sure as hell do love your conspiracy theories, however.
I'd say things about you...but then I'd be banned again.
You sure as hell do love your conspiracy theories, however.
I'd rather you hadn't quoted him, and there's no reason to defend me. His opinion is of no importance to me whatsoever and he simply repeats himself for the most part. He's completely irrelevant to my place in life.
Can you show me examples of where that exact same action was done with a stylus?
Do you miss my point about it being very generic? Finger, stylus, mouse cursor, or a Swedish meatball. The only difference is the particular pointing device. I don't understand why such a thing is patentable. It's the same actions already carried out to edit lists in numerous programs:
a.) Select button to activate list editing mode
b.) Select item to move
c.) Move selected item to new location in list
d.) Select button to save list changes
That's what the list edit patent comes down to. Where is the originality in that?
The mouse cursor is just a virtual representation of a finger (as is glaringly obvious by the fact that the mouse cursor turns into a hand in a browser to select a link).
I'd rather you hadn't quoted him, and there's no reason to defend me. His opinion is of no importance to me whatsoever and he simply repeats himself for the most part. He's completely irrelevant to my place in life.
There are two types of people I disagree with here...one type I respect (and thankfully are the majority as beyond the bullshit this is a rather mature board with rather mature people)
anonymouse is not a respectable poster. He's a step above Apple ][ which, being just a step, is a pretty shitty place to be.
I'd rather you hadn't quoted him, and there's no reason to defend me. His opinion is of no importance to me whatsoever and he simply repeats himself for the most part. He's completely irrelevant to my place in life.
There are two types of people I disagree with here...one type I respect (and thankfully are the majority as beyond the bullshit this is a rather mature board with rather mature people)
anonymouse is not a respectable poster. He's a step above Apple ][ which, being just a step, is a pretty shitty place to be.
I love it when you guys get all chummy and into the whole bonding thing.