This is the future of the mac line if Apple doesn't step up their game for the professionals.
If Apple doesn't support the Mac Pro, it too will get dropped by the pros, then the laptop, then the phone, then Apple will be right back where it was in the 90s, except, it won't have the professionals at it's core.
Final Cut Pro didn't exist in the 90s. So which pros were you talking about were at Apple's "core"? Certainly not video editors - they were using Avid in the 90s. Graphic Artists and desktop publishers? Apple didn't cater to them any more than they do now. There's lots of other pros - scientific researchers, for example, are ecstatic about GCD, XGrid, and other technologies that Apple has added over the years.
This idea that video editors are the keystone to Apple's success is ridiculous hyperbole. It's just a clash of egos. Apple is revamping their software to take advantage of up and coming pros in the coming years, and the old timer pros don't want to change and are bitter about it.
I'm not saying the first release of FCPX is perfect or that Apple handled the transition perfectly. But when multi-cam and other features come back to FCPX in a year or two, what's your argument going to be then, other than you don't like the new interface? You pros talk as if it was invented by some novice programmer, but it wasn't - it was designed by one of the forefathers of digital video editing.
In a year or two, this will all blow over. Only a few luddites will complain, just like they do about how MacOS 9 was better.
Here's a game for you. It's called "A Look Into Big League Media Production".
Major media outlets give FCPX a shot and say "Crap! We can't do our jobs with this!"
Translation: major media outlets give it to one guy to try it out and he says "this is no good" without ever doing a real analysis of whether or not change in procedure and workflow will result in benefits in the long term.
Another one of Steve Jobs lessons. Know when to say no and be prepared to walk away.
Often difficult knowing when to say "No." Apple's decision to "walk away" from high-end video editing may turn out to be a better move than throwing more cash and other resources at something that pursuing may not serve their better interests.
...and that's their choice. They see themselves as a consumer electronics company: iPod, iPad, AppleTV, iPhone, iTunes, Apple Computer Inc -> Apple Inc, etc.....
As many others have said before, there is a hell of a lot more money in the consumer market than in the pro market. The only reason Nikon and Canon are able to offer up D3's and Mark IV's is because they sell boat loads of Coolpix and Rebels.
I do wish Apple would continue to offer a small selection of pro tools like Nikon and Canon for those of us who need and use them everyday.
I am a professional photographer and I CANNOT do my work effectively on an iMac or a MacBook (I have tried). I need the horsepower and options that a MacPro or MacBookPro offer.
I love my Apple products, but if the MacPro and MacBookPro get dropped...I will most likely switch to Windows based machines.
For me, they are just tools. No use bitchin' about it. It is what it is.
Which is scary considering I've seen articles speculating that if Windows 8 isn't a huge success that MS will abandon the desktop OS market to focus on their server line.
Which is scary considering I've seen articles speculating that if Windows 8 isn't a huge success that MS will abandon the desktop OS market to focus on their server line.
Oh, I don't buy that. It's MICROSOFT. They wouldn't ever do that. Where'd you hear it?
Of course, if Microsoft was still playing the game of "let's raze Apple to the ground", that would be the easiest way to do it.
Imagine? it's 2015. Windows 8 has done exceptionally poorly. Think Vista-bad. Think Windows ME-bad. Microsoft stops making new consumer operating systems.
Now it's 2019. Windows 8 is still being sold on new PCs, but it hasn't received any attention from Microsoft beyond the standard slew of security updates.
So people start moving to Apple. En masse.
2020. Apple can't keep up with the demand for their computers. Customer service quality sharply dips and the online Apple Store shows perpetual wait times of 2-4 weeks. The analysts that weren't killed in the Great Analyst Purge of 2017 write that if Apple COULD keep up with this new demand, they'd have 40% US and 25% worldwide marketshare by now as people jump the sinking ship that is Windows 8.
? And the rest.
O~R, we can imagine that on the day that Microsoft announces they won't be making consumer OS' anymore (heck, Apple would send someone to the conference where Ballmer announces it to be able to respond immediately), Apple would start negotiating for more land, more manufacturing buildings, and more contracts to anticipate this new demand.
But again, I don't believe Microsoft would do that.
I am a professional photographer and I CANNOT do my work effectively on an iMac or a MacBook (I have tried). I need the horsepower and options that a MacPro or MacBookPro offer.
At least the MBP could work for you. I tried a fully loaded iMac last July (right after the refresh) and it didn't cut it for for some of the rendering/encoding I was doing. I ended up returning it and am currently waiting (with finders crossed) for one more MacPro update. I really need more than 4 cores.
Oh, I don't buy that. It's MICROSOFT. They wouldn't ever do that. Where'd you hear it?
...
Arstechnica? Maybe?
It sort of makes sense. Windows phone has been a dud. Windows Zune was a dud. Windows tablets have been duds. From what I've seen based on the Beta Windows 8 is a sad attempt to create one all encompassing OS for phones, tablets, desktops (kind of like Lion). It's outright horrific. Touchscreen is not appropriate in all instances. It just isn't.
I foresee (ours included) most businesses hanging on to Windows 7 (which is a great OS) even longer than businesses held onto XP.
MS's largest revenue streams are Office and their server products. In addition I believe they get X amount of $ for every Android phone sold. So they're not hurting for money. They might just do a Steve Jobs and know when to step away from a product line. Imagine the irony of MS getting out of consumer products while Apple is abandoning the professional market.
I am a professional photographer and I CANNOT do my work effectively on an iMac or a MacBook (I have tried). I need the horsepower and options that a MacPro or MacBookPro offer.
I call BS.
First, the MacBook isn't even a current product, so your knowledge is obviously out of date.
More importantly, you can do your work on a MacBook Pro, but not on an iMac? Please explain what professional features the MacBook Pro offers that the iMac doesn't? Even if you're one of the "it's impossible to use a glossy screen" loonies, you can buy a matte monitor and attach it to your iMac, so there isn't a blasted thing that a MBP will do that an iMac won't do. And the iMac is significantly better in many regards (such as the ability to have both an SSD and hard disk as well as better CPU options). And since you say that a Mac Pro will work, portability obviously isn't an issue.
So, pray tell, what requirements are there that an iMac won't fulfill but an MBP does?
Which is scary considering I've seen articles speculating that if Windows 8 isn't a huge success that MS will abandon the desktop OS market to focus on their server line.
Based on the fact that Windows gives Microsoft about 25% of their revenue, I could much more see them continue supporting Windows 7 until 2030 than abandoning the market completely. And with the server/business market depending so much on individual clients for the users, I see no reason why they would drop the "consumer" line at all. I'd say that would be farther fetched than Apple buying a phone/internet company.
...and that's their choice. They see themselves as a consumer electronics company: iPod, iPad, AppleTV, iPhone, iTunes, Apple Computer Inc -> Apple Inc, etc.....
As many others have said before, there is a hell of a lot more money in the consumer market than in the pro market. The only reason Nikon and Canon are able to offer up D3's and Mark IV's is because they sell boat loads of Coolpix and Rebels.
I do wish Apple would continue to offer a small selection of pro tools like Nikon and Canon for those of us who need and use them everyday.
I am a professional photographer and I CANNOT do my work effectively on an iMac or a MacBook (I have tried). I need the horsepower and options that a MacPro or MacBookPro offer.
I love my Apple products, but if the MacPro and MacBookPro get dropped...I will most likely switch to Windows based machines.
For me, they are just tools. No use bitchin' about it. It is what it is.
That's funny, since the iMac has a lot of upgrade options to blast MBP away - completely. I know it I tried them both for heavy C4D renderings. Of course the MacPro is still a different category. But there is absolutely nothing on earth that you could do better with a MBP then on a iMac. Except traveling around.
For those of you just joining us, "Apple is Doomed". We now continue with our discussion on the topic of "all hope is lost".
Nobody is saying this is going to kill Apple. It's a rounding error of their iPhone income. What it does do, however, is hurt a lot of long-time customers.
It doesn't have to be that every product Apple makes sells bazillions of units. Unfortunately, that seems to be Apple's thinking - Apple wants to get maximum profit for everything it makes, and it doesn't want to bother with creative professionals anymore.
I don't know why Apple can't continue to make some of their "insanely great" products for smaller market segments, but it seems like they don't want to.
One irony in all this is that despite all the celebrating of Steve Jobs' obsession with creativity, Apple is taking away the tools that creativite pros need.
"Not everything we make need to make us a lot of money. We can make less money to keep a small group of people happy."
Quote:
Originally Posted by elroth
It doesn't have to be that every product Apple makes sells bazillions of units. Unfortunately, that seems to be Apple's thinking - Apple wants to get maximum profit for everything it makes, and it doesn't want to bother with creative professionals anymore.
Nobody is saying this is going to kill Apple. It's a rounding error of their iPhone income. What it does do, however, is hurt a lot of long-time customers.
It doesn't have to be that every product Apple makes sells bazillions of units. Unfortunately, that seems to be Apple's thinking - Apple wants to get maximum profit for everything it makes, and it doesn't want to bother with creative professionals anymore.
I don't know why Apple can't continue to make some of their "insanely great" products for smaller market segments, but it seems like they don't want to.
One irony in all this is that despite all the celebrating of Steve Jobs' obsession with creativity, Apple is taking away the tools that creativite pros need.
Mmmm....
Here's a very reasoned and evenhanded discussion of FCP X vis a vis the "pros" of today and tomorrow -- by Walter Murch, an editor of some renown.
The pioneering TV studio that effectively invented the reality TV genre with MTV's "The Real World" series has switched from Apple's beleaguered Final Cut Pro video editing software
<sarcasm> Man these guys are so old school. TV? Puh!! The future is on YouTube man. FCP X rocks! No silly tracks to worry about, fantastic grading, sound mixing all in one app - and straight to YouTube! Tell Bunim|Murray they're history man. Long after anyone can remember the Kardashians, my stuff will be up there on the web, getting hits! Clients, well, working on that. Avid's just too hard, man, why bother? </sarcasm>
We run a post house that straddles the worlds of Final Cut and Avid. It tends to fall about 50/50, projects for broadcast mostly. In the six months or so since FCP X arrived can I tell you how many people have brought a project to us that they've begun on Final Cut? 0.
Recently, Apple detected that there was a potential overheating problem...
...that could cause the Nano to explode or self-combust causing a fire that could kill you and/or your entire family.
I love that Apple replaced these devices (I received an 8GB replacement of an old 4GB Nano! ) but let's not pretend it was a selfless act on their behalf.
The reality is, Apple had two choices. Build another FCP in the FCP 7 vein, and have to replace it again down the line when it becomes clear a more efficient, cost-effective solution is needed to cater to the increasingly small teams producing for the web etc. or just build that FCP now and take a hit on the film & TV business.
Avid was number 1 anyway, so Apple clearly just figured "what the hell"
Nokia was number 1. Did that stop Apple from developing the iPhone?
Apple may have better use for their people and money than competing in the professional video editing arena. I get that. What worries me is breaking that bond people have with their Macs. Take the Mac off my desk at work and I may choose different hardware for my home. Now I've stepped outside the walled garden where I could be tempted by handheld devices from non-fruit companies.
Windows didn't achieve 98% market share by slick marketing to consumers. They got there by making sure everyone had a Windows PC at work. People's natural preference for the familiar did the rest.
Comments
This is the future of the mac line if Apple doesn't step up their game for the professionals.
If Apple doesn't support the Mac Pro, it too will get dropped by the pros, then the laptop, then the phone, then Apple will be right back where it was in the 90s, except, it won't have the professionals at it's core.
Final Cut Pro didn't exist in the 90s. So which pros were you talking about were at Apple's "core"? Certainly not video editors - they were using Avid in the 90s. Graphic Artists and desktop publishers? Apple didn't cater to them any more than they do now. There's lots of other pros - scientific researchers, for example, are ecstatic about GCD, XGrid, and other technologies that Apple has added over the years.
This idea that video editors are the keystone to Apple's success is ridiculous hyperbole. It's just a clash of egos. Apple is revamping their software to take advantage of up and coming pros in the coming years, and the old timer pros don't want to change and are bitter about it.
I'm not saying the first release of FCPX is perfect or that Apple handled the transition perfectly. But when multi-cam and other features come back to FCPX in a year or two, what's your argument going to be then, other than you don't like the new interface? You pros talk as if it was invented by some novice programmer, but it wasn't - it was designed by one of the forefathers of digital video editing.
In a year or two, this will all blow over. Only a few luddites will complain, just like they do about how MacOS 9 was better.
Here's a game for you. It's called "A Look Into Big League Media Production".
Major media outlets give FCPX a shot and say "Crap! We can't do our jobs with this!"
Translation: major media outlets give it to one guy to try it out and he says "this is no good" without ever doing a real analysis of whether or not change in procedure and workflow will result in benefits in the long term.
Another one of Steve Jobs lessons. Know when to say no and be prepared to walk away.
Often difficult knowing when to say "No." Apple's decision to "walk away" from high-end video editing may turn out to be a better move than throwing more cash and other resources at something that pursuing may not serve their better interests.
...and that's their choice. They see themselves as a consumer electronics company: iPod, iPad, AppleTV, iPhone, iTunes, Apple Computer Inc -> Apple Inc, etc.....
As many others have said before, there is a hell of a lot more money in the consumer market than in the pro market. The only reason Nikon and Canon are able to offer up D3's and Mark IV's is because they sell boat loads of Coolpix and Rebels.
I do wish Apple would continue to offer a small selection of pro tools like Nikon and Canon for those of us who need and use them everyday.
I am a professional photographer and I CANNOT do my work effectively on an iMac or a MacBook (I have tried). I need the horsepower and options that a MacPro or MacBookPro offer.
I love my Apple products, but if the MacPro and MacBookPro get dropped...I will most likely switch to Windows based machines.
For me, they are just tools. No use bitchin' about it. It is what it is.
Which is scary considering I've seen articles speculating that if Windows 8 isn't a huge success that MS will abandon the desktop OS market to focus on their server line.
Then what do we do? Dust off my NeXTCube?
Which is scary considering I've seen articles speculating that if Windows 8 isn't a huge success that MS will abandon the desktop OS market to focus on their server line.
Oh, I don't buy that. It's MICROSOFT. They wouldn't ever do that. Where'd you hear it?
Of course, if Microsoft was still playing the game of "let's raze Apple to the ground", that would be the easiest way to do it.
Imagine? it's 2015. Windows 8 has done exceptionally poorly. Think Vista-bad. Think Windows ME-bad. Microsoft stops making new consumer operating systems.
Now it's 2019. Windows 8 is still being sold on new PCs, but it hasn't received any attention from Microsoft beyond the standard slew of security updates.
So people start moving to Apple. En masse.
2020. Apple can't keep up with the demand for their computers. Customer service quality sharply dips and the online Apple Store shows perpetual wait times of 2-4 weeks. The analysts that weren't killed in the Great Analyst Purge of 2017 write that if Apple COULD keep up with this new demand, they'd have 40% US and 25% worldwide marketshare by now as people jump the sinking ship that is Windows 8.
? And the rest.
O~R, we can imagine that on the day that Microsoft announces they won't be making consumer OS' anymore (heck, Apple would send someone to the conference where Ballmer announces it to be able to respond immediately), Apple would start negotiating for more land, more manufacturing buildings, and more contracts to anticipate this new demand.
But again, I don't believe Microsoft would do that.
...The analysts that weren't killed in the Great Analyst Purge of 2017 write that if Apple COULD keep up with this new demand...
This has got to be the best thing I've read today.
I am a professional photographer and I CANNOT do my work effectively on an iMac or a MacBook (I have tried). I need the horsepower and options that a MacPro or MacBookPro offer.
At least the MBP could work for you. I tried a fully loaded iMac last July (right after the refresh) and it didn't cut it for for some of the rendering/encoding I was doing. I ended up returning it and am currently waiting (with finders crossed) for one more MacPro update. I really need more than 4 cores.
Oh, I don't buy that. It's MICROSOFT. They wouldn't ever do that. Where'd you hear it?
...
Arstechnica? Maybe?
It sort of makes sense. Windows phone has been a dud. Windows Zune was a dud. Windows tablets have been duds. From what I've seen based on the Beta Windows 8 is a sad attempt to create one all encompassing OS for phones, tablets, desktops (kind of like Lion). It's outright horrific. Touchscreen is not appropriate in all instances. It just isn't.
I foresee (ours included) most businesses hanging on to Windows 7 (which is a great OS) even longer than businesses held onto XP.
MS's largest revenue streams are Office and their server products. In addition I believe they get X amount of $ for every Android phone sold. So they're not hurting for money. They might just do a Steve Jobs and know when to step away from a product line. Imagine the irony of MS getting out of consumer products while Apple is abandoning the professional market.
I am a professional photographer and I CANNOT do my work effectively on an iMac or a MacBook (I have tried). I need the horsepower and options that a MacPro or MacBookPro offer.
I call BS.
First, the MacBook isn't even a current product, so your knowledge is obviously out of date.
More importantly, you can do your work on a MacBook Pro, but not on an iMac? Please explain what professional features the MacBook Pro offers that the iMac doesn't? Even if you're one of the "it's impossible to use a glossy screen" loonies, you can buy a matte monitor and attach it to your iMac, so there isn't a blasted thing that a MBP will do that an iMac won't do. And the iMac is significantly better in many regards (such as the ability to have both an SSD and hard disk as well as better CPU options). And since you say that a Mac Pro will work, portability obviously isn't an issue.
So, pray tell, what requirements are there that an iMac won't fulfill but an MBP does?
Which is scary considering I've seen articles speculating that if Windows 8 isn't a huge success that MS will abandon the desktop OS market to focus on their server line.
Based on the fact that Windows gives Microsoft about 25% of their revenue, I could much more see them continue supporting Windows 7 until 2030 than abandoning the market completely. And with the server/business market depending so much on individual clients for the users, I see no reason why they would drop the "consumer" line at all. I'd say that would be farther fetched than Apple buying a phone/internet company.
...and that's their choice. They see themselves as a consumer electronics company: iPod, iPad, AppleTV, iPhone, iTunes, Apple Computer Inc -> Apple Inc, etc.....
As many others have said before, there is a hell of a lot more money in the consumer market than in the pro market. The only reason Nikon and Canon are able to offer up D3's and Mark IV's is because they sell boat loads of Coolpix and Rebels.
I do wish Apple would continue to offer a small selection of pro tools like Nikon and Canon for those of us who need and use them everyday.
I am a professional photographer and I CANNOT do my work effectively on an iMac or a MacBook (I have tried). I need the horsepower and options that a MacPro or MacBookPro offer.
I love my Apple products, but if the MacPro and MacBookPro get dropped...I will most likely switch to Windows based machines.
For me, they are just tools. No use bitchin' about it. It is what it is.
That's funny, since the iMac has a lot of upgrade options to blast MBP away - completely. I know it I tried them both for heavy C4D renderings. Of course the MacPro is still a different category. But there is absolutely nothing on earth that you could do better with a MBP then on a iMac. Except traveling around.
Some TV production will switch to Avid or Premiere, some will stay on FCP and some will eventually migrate to FCP X. No big deal.
Post houses have always supported Avid, FCP, and Premiere so that is a non-issue.
FCP was a bit long in the tooth and barely capable for half hour TV production, but it was never really suitable for feature films.
For those of you just joining us, "Apple is Doomed". We now continue with our discussion on the topic of "all hope is lost".
Nobody is saying this is going to kill Apple. It's a rounding error of their iPhone income. What it does do, however, is hurt a lot of long-time customers.
It doesn't have to be that every product Apple makes sells bazillions of units. Unfortunately, that seems to be Apple's thinking - Apple wants to get maximum profit for everything it makes, and it doesn't want to bother with creative professionals anymore.
I don't know why Apple can't continue to make some of their "insanely great" products for smaller market segments, but it seems like they don't want to.
One irony in all this is that despite all the celebrating of Steve Jobs' obsession with creativity, Apple is taking away the tools that creativite pros need.
"Not everything we make need to make us a lot of money. We can make less money to keep a small group of people happy."
It doesn't have to be that every product Apple makes sells bazillions of units. Unfortunately, that seems to be Apple's thinking - Apple wants to get maximum profit for everything it makes, and it doesn't want to bother with creative professionals anymore.
Nobody is saying this is going to kill Apple. It's a rounding error of their iPhone income. What it does do, however, is hurt a lot of long-time customers.
It doesn't have to be that every product Apple makes sells bazillions of units. Unfortunately, that seems to be Apple's thinking - Apple wants to get maximum profit for everything it makes, and it doesn't want to bother with creative professionals anymore.
I don't know why Apple can't continue to make some of their "insanely great" products for smaller market segments, but it seems like they don't want to.
One irony in all this is that despite all the celebrating of Steve Jobs' obsession with creativity, Apple is taking away the tools that creativite pros need.
Mmmm....
Here's a very reasoned and evenhanded discussion of FCP X vis a vis the "pros" of today and tomorrow -- by Walter Murch, an editor of some renown.
Walter Murch Talks FCPX
Watch all 3 videos.
Then there is this, by Walter -- his original reaction to FCP X when it was originally announced:
Walter Murch: the FCPX situation
People here have been complaining that Apple is doomed™ because they don't support their customers and stand behind their products.
Below is a copy of an order I placed for an iPod Nano on September 7, 2005.
Recently, Apple detected that there was a potential overheating problem:
Apple Replacing First-Gen iPod Nano Due to Overheating Risk
My no-cost replacement arrived today -- The latest iPod Nano Multitouch (6 GB as opposed to the original 4 GB):
One Tap Wonders
What a shoddy way to treat a customer after 7 years....
\tSubject: \tApple Order Acknowledgement-Order# zzzzzzz
\tDate: \tSeptember 7, 2005 11:44:12 AM PDT
Dear Apple Customer,
Thank you for shopping with Apple!
Here are the details of your order:
Web Order Number: zzzzzzzz
PO Number: zzzzzzzz
Apple Sales Order Number: zzzzzzzz
Apple Customer Number: zzzz
Shipping Method: Standard Overnite
Product # Product Description Qty Price Ext Price
__________ ______________________________ ______ ________ __________
MA005LL/A IPOD NANO 4G WHITE-USA 1 249.00 249.00
__________________________________________________ _____________________________
The pioneering TV studio that effectively invented the reality TV genre with MTV's "The Real World" series has switched from Apple's beleaguered Final Cut Pro video editing software
<sarcasm> Man these guys are so old school. TV? Puh!! The future is on YouTube man. FCP X rocks! No silly tracks to worry about, fantastic grading, sound mixing all in one app - and straight to YouTube! Tell Bunim|Murray they're history man. Long after anyone can remember the Kardashians, my stuff will be up there on the web, getting hits! Clients, well, working on that. Avid's just too hard, man, why bother? </sarcasm>
We run a post house that straddles the worlds of Final Cut and Avid. It tends to fall about 50/50, projects for broadcast mostly. In the six months or so since FCP X arrived can I tell you how many people have brought a project to us that they've begun on Final Cut? 0.
Recently, Apple detected that there was a potential overheating problem...
...that could cause the Nano to explode or self-combust causing a fire that could kill you and/or your entire family.
I love that Apple replaced these devices (I received an 8GB replacement of an old 4GB Nano!
The reality is, Apple had two choices. Build another FCP in the FCP 7 vein, and have to replace it again down the line when it becomes clear a more efficient, cost-effective solution is needed to cater to the increasingly small teams producing for the web etc. or just build that FCP now and take a hit on the film & TV business.
Avid was number 1 anyway, so Apple clearly just figured "what the hell"
Nokia was number 1. Did that stop Apple from developing the iPhone?
Apple may have better use for their people and money than competing in the professional video editing arena. I get that. What worries me is breaking that bond people have with their Macs. Take the Mac off my desk at work and I may choose different hardware for my home. Now I've stepped outside the walled garden where I could be tempted by handheld devices from non-fruit companies.
Windows didn't achieve 98% market share by slick marketing to consumers. They got there by making sure everyone had a Windows PC at work. People's natural preference for the familiar did the rest.