That's not fair to all the good Apple employees in the 90's. Apple brought a lot to the table, as did NeXT. Apple's problem was not so much the technology or products as it was lack of leadership and an unwillingness to break with the past.
The biggest gain for Apple from the acquisition was Jobs. NeXT was important, but Apple could have built their next generation on a number of different platforms if they had strong leadership.
Hmmm... the odd thing to me is how many people defend competing companies on an Apple fan site.
big difference between countering lies and obvious misinformation and defending a company for no reason by creating battles and arguments from the otherside that don't exist and in some cases probably won't
You all act as if a company cannot do well unless said company is Apple.
Rampant BOGO sales can indicate a distributor having to slash prices in order to move product or a vendor having to slash prices to sell to distributors but in and of themselves they aren't a sign of poor sales. Look at Apple's free iPhone 3GS, which still makes more profit than other vendors premium models at $200-$300 subsidized prices.
We also have a recent and rare example of an iPhone BOGO at BestBuy for a model Apple stopped selling many months ago. This likely got passed around between distributors at slight losses due to a foolish purchase from Apple right before the 4S shipped.
It's only when you see BOGO across many markets and models over an extended period like we saw with RiM that there is an indication of a real issue. I don't think Samsung falls into that category in any sense as they are one of the few making money off Android. Bottom line: Apple is to the smartphone market what Samsung is to the Android OS market.
big difference between countering lies and obvious misinformation and defending a company for no reason by creating battles and arguments from the otherside that don't exist and in some cases probably won't
You all act as if a company cannot do well unless said company is Apple.
All of us? None of us are objective and counter only with facts?
- when android was small compared to iOS, the contest was between these two. My recollection is that Android would never be significant
- when android grew bigger, the contest was between individual suppliers. Sansung, hTC, ... would never outgrow Apple
- now that Samsung is the biggest seller, the comparison basis for Android is further narrowed down. How much of the Galaxy S II were sold?
Frankly guys, what do you care? Is it pure frustration that Android got twice as big as iOS in less than 2 years?
It's always denial when it comes to Apple-iOS losing quite a large amount of share in such a short time. I have stated many times that this is inevitable with the success of Android. Yet I'm usually called name and insulted by many users here. Samsung has just proven my point. They will continue to exceed. Along with Amazon and their Kindle devices.
That's not fair to all the good Apple employees in the 90's. Apple brought a lot to the table, as did NeXT. Apple's problem was not so much the technology or products as it was lack of leadership and an unwillingness to break with the past.
The biggest gain for Apple from the acquisition was Jobs. NeXT was important, but Apple could have built their next generation on a number of different platforms if they had strong leadership.
No they couldn't. We had 3 months of capital before closing the doors. Copland was joke to all internal engineering staff. Taligent was another broken dream.
BeOS was nowhere near the robust nature and quality APIs of NeXTSTEP. Sorry, but one of the reasons NeXT was quickly agreed to by all parties interested was the massive amount of IP that NeXT had both mature and simmering which actually never was made to market at the time Apple bought the company.
Sorry, but being on the inside gives one a perspective you cannot fathom.
The Apple Campus was divided into a couple factions. Within the first year it was clear the deadwood was dragging the company into the ground. The canceling of the sabbatical program was another key move by Steve that protected the company from collapsing in cost.
There were a lot of technically limited folks who were scared out of their minds with UNIX when we arrived.
Frankly guys, what do you care? Is it pure frustration that Android got twice as big as iOS in less than 2 years?
We don't care. Apple reports shipped but assumes it sells > 99.99%. Android vendors reports shipped and I doubt they sell to end-users > 75%. In addition, Android is on a variety of crappy basic smart phones given away in BOGO or free.
Then due to variety, Fandroids complain it's not fair comparing the iPhone to the non flagship Android phones.
I once had a lawnmower that needed repairs. While talking to the repairman I, like an idiot, said, "if it costs over $75 you can keep the damn thing!".
The repair bill was $74.50.
What has this got to do with anything...
Well... I'm just wondering if it was leaked next quarter that Apple sold 60 million iPhones then would Samsung report the sale of 62 million phones.
The didn't sell 32 million Android smartphones, nor did they sell 32 million Galaxy phones. Too bad Samsung doesn't give a breakdown by phone type.
Not only that, but Samsung gives away phones too. So they maybe stretching the truth a bit when they say sold 32 million phones because half of them are given away with there buy 1 get 1 free. You will never see Apple do such a thing. When Apple says sold, they mean people actually pay for them.
The numbers are close. Samsung will beat out Apple for 2011. This is only one company. Imagine the rest of the industry with Android phones sold worldwide. This will be a difficult year for Apple in 2012. Again, Apple is doing exactly what they have done with Mac back in the 80's. Its not sustainable, and will relegate Apple back to small niche market...again.
The numbers are close. Samsung will beat out Apple for 2011. This is only one company. Imagine the rest of the industry with Android phones sold worldwide. This will be a difficult year for Apple in 2012. Again, Apple is doing exactly what they have done with Mac back in the 80's. Its not sustainable, and will relegate Apple back to small niche market...again.
Wait, I'm confused. Should I sell my Apple stuff and buy an Android phone and Windows computer? If it's inevitable that Apple is going to be bankrupted by the end of this year, I may as well, I guess, right?
The numbers are close. Samsung will beat out Apple for 2011. This is only one company. Imagine the rest of the industry with Android phones sold worldwide. This will be a difficult year for Apple in 2012. Again, Apple is doing exactly what they have done with Mac back in the 80's. Its not sustainable, and will relegate Apple back to small niche market...again.
It's strange how record setting quarter after record setting quarter can be considered a failure. Maybe only in your eyes. Apple gets 50% of the mobile profits with just 3 phones. I think Apple will be fine in the short and long run.
If only they had market share instead of profit share. Oh what, market share can't buy you anything?
Not only that, but Samsung gives away phones too. So they maybe stretching the truth a bit when they say sold 32 million phones because half of them are given away with there buy 1 get 1 free. You will never see Apple do such a thing. When Apple says sold, they mean people actually pay for them.
When the telcos give you a "free"smartphone, that's the telcos' rolling the phone cost into the contract, and not any sign that Samsung or Apple or whoever didn't sell the phone to the telco. That would be ridiculous to believe any of these guys really give a bunch of product away to the mobile users.
Samsung doesn't actually state any numbers at all. We always just compare Apple's stated figures to Analyst estimates about Samsung.
Samsung used to report numbers, which is where I got my GS2 figures from. They only recently stated they weren't going to provide detailed sales figures.
[QUOTE=anantksundaram;2020680]Too bad Samsung does not provide any audited data of any kind on their phone or tablet sales.
All we have are estimates put out by consulting-whoevers, and numbers that are wildly inconsistent with collateral data on things such as app sales, web traffic, etc.
Bottom line: I don't believe these sales figures in the least.[/
Samsung is trying to fluff their way into some kind of popularity. Pretend they are this big smartphone seller. I don't think people will buy it. Pretend you have the sales until you do have the sales, or you are found out when your earnings don't match your ego
Samsung used to report numbers, which is where I got my GS2 figures from. They only recently stated they weren't going to provide detailed sales figures.
All of us? None of us are objective and counter only with facts?
All of us.
Hmmmmmmm....
Forgive me, I purposefully generalize often expecting people to know I don't mean all...at all really...poor wording on my part, I'll try and avoid such generalizations in the future.
That's not fair to all the good Apple employees in the 90's. Apple brought a lot to the table, as did NeXT. Apple's problem was not so much the technology or products as it was lack of leadership and an unwillingness to break with the past.
The biggest gain for Apple from the acquisition was Jobs. NeXT was important, but Apple could have built their next generation on a number of different platforms if they had strong leadership.
Apple had lots of interesting stuff going on. From Copland to OpenDoc to Newton. Some cool, disconnected stuff. They had no direction (even less than Google has now). They were a collection of little fiefdoms controlled by people of "power" each having a different vision. The problem was, that vision was all they had. There were no plans on how to actually achieve any of the ideas they had.
NeXT not only provided people that had "vision" they also provided people that had a deep understanding of the art of software design and architecture. Be never had this IMO. Apple had lost it.
NeXT provided people with insight, vision, drive, ambition and some amazingly high technology. It is no accident within 6 months all but 1 of Apple's top 15 manegers were "previously of NeXT".
All you have to do is look at the primary tech:
OS X - NeXT based tech with added goodness.
iPhone - NeXT based tech. You still have all those amazing foundation classes but the GUI classes have been renamed and re-thought out.
XCode - NeXT based tech. PB preceded it for several years but it was headed by many NeXT based guys/OpenStep developers.
QuickTime - OK, you got me. Apple.
iPad - NeXT based tech
iTunes - OK, Another Apple based tech.
But the point is, NeXT brought much more than Steve Jobs. They brought FILE EXTENSIONS!!!
Adding/promoting File Extensions helped the Mac gain acceptance more than any single other change OS X made.
Who is the idiot that wrote this article? When Apple announces its iPhone sales, that number is going to be compared with a GUESS by one analyst about how many smartphones Samsung sold? I mean, are you people seeing how ridiculous these types of articles are? Absolutely worthless!
You can't compare a real number with a guess. Where are the real journalists?
I guess you can compare a real number with a guess. The regulators only see that there is WIDESPREAD agreement on a point, therefore nothing fraudulent. Ha! We won't have good journalists for a while yet. When certain utilities are gone then will have good blog reporters and the cream will rise to the top. Until then, CNBC and the networks have a racket going. Literally.
This is merely the method the wall street guys use to KEEP THE LID ON Apple. Their paycheck is guaranteed, since Apple will always have something exciting coming along. Just keep her low and let her rip when you need another money cycle, upside or downside. If the market is headed up and you got bets on the downside then bring out a new bad rumor. If that doesn't work then get your CNBC stars to mention Europe again. They can massage it either way. Often multiple times in a day.
Comments
That's not fair to all the good Apple employees in the 90's. Apple brought a lot to the table, as did NeXT. Apple's problem was not so much the technology or products as it was lack of leadership and an unwillingness to break with the past.
The biggest gain for Apple from the acquisition was Jobs. NeXT was important, but Apple could have built their next generation on a number of different platforms if they had strong leadership.
Yes... people like Andy Rubin.
(I'm just being a smart ass)
Hmmm... the odd thing to me is how many people defend competing companies on an Apple fan site.
big difference between countering lies and obvious misinformation and defending a company for no reason by creating battles and arguments from the otherside that don't exist and in some cases probably won't
You all act as if a company cannot do well unless said company is Apple.
Rampant BOGO sales can indicate a distributor having to slash prices in order to move product or a vendor having to slash prices to sell to distributors but in and of themselves they aren't a sign of poor sales. Look at Apple's free iPhone 3GS, which still makes more profit than other vendors premium models at $200-$300 subsidized prices.
We also have a recent and rare example of an iPhone BOGO at BestBuy for a model Apple stopped selling many months ago. This likely got passed around between distributors at slight losses due to a foolish purchase from Apple right before the 4S shipped.
It's only when you see BOGO across many markets and models over an extended period like we saw with RiM that there is an indication of a real issue. I don't think Samsung falls into that category in any sense as they are one of the few making money off Android. Bottom line: Apple is to the smartphone market what Samsung is to the Android OS market.
Kudos
big difference between countering lies and obvious misinformation and defending a company for no reason by creating battles and arguments from the otherside that don't exist and in some cases probably won't
You all act as if a company cannot do well unless said company is Apple.
All of us? None of us are objective and counter only with facts?
All of us.
Hmmmmmmm....
Please correct me if I am wrong:
- when android was small compared to iOS, the contest was between these two. My recollection is that Android would never be significant
- when android grew bigger, the contest was between individual suppliers. Sansung, hTC, ... would never outgrow Apple
- now that Samsung is the biggest seller, the comparison basis for Android is further narrowed down. How much of the Galaxy S II were sold?
Frankly guys, what do you care? Is it pure frustration that Android got twice as big as iOS in less than 2 years?
It's always denial when it comes to Apple-iOS losing quite a large amount of share in such a short time. I have stated many times that this is inevitable with the success of Android. Yet I'm usually called name and insulted by many users here. Samsung has just proven my point. They will continue to exceed. Along with Amazon and their Kindle devices.
That's not fair to all the good Apple employees in the 90's. Apple brought a lot to the table, as did NeXT. Apple's problem was not so much the technology or products as it was lack of leadership and an unwillingness to break with the past.
The biggest gain for Apple from the acquisition was Jobs. NeXT was important, but Apple could have built their next generation on a number of different platforms if they had strong leadership.
No they couldn't. We had 3 months of capital before closing the doors. Copland was joke to all internal engineering staff. Taligent was another broken dream.
BeOS was nowhere near the robust nature and quality APIs of NeXTSTEP. Sorry, but one of the reasons NeXT was quickly agreed to by all parties interested was the massive amount of IP that NeXT had both mature and simmering which actually never was made to market at the time Apple bought the company.
Sorry, but being on the inside gives one a perspective you cannot fathom.
The Apple Campus was divided into a couple factions. Within the first year it was clear the deadwood was dragging the company into the ground. The canceling of the sabbatical program was another key move by Steve that protected the company from collapsing in cost.
There were a lot of technically limited folks who were scared out of their minds with UNIX when we arrived.
Frankly guys, what do you care? Is it pure frustration that Android got twice as big as iOS in less than 2 years?
We don't care. Apple reports shipped but assumes it sells > 99.99%. Android vendors reports shipped and I doubt they sell to end-users > 75%. In addition, Android is on a variety of crappy basic smart phones given away in BOGO or free.
Then due to variety, Fandroids complain it's not fair comparing the iPhone to the non flagship Android phones.
The repair bill was $74.50.
What has this got to do with anything...
Well... I'm just wondering if it was leaked next quarter that Apple sold 60 million iPhones then would Samsung report the sale of 62 million phones.
They sold 32 million smartphones.
The didn't sell 32 million Android smartphones, nor did they sell 32 million Galaxy phones. Too bad Samsung doesn't give a breakdown by phone type.
Not only that, but Samsung gives away phones too. So they maybe stretching the truth a bit when they say sold 32 million phones because half of them are given away with there buy 1 get 1 free. You will never see Apple do such a thing. When Apple says sold, they mean people actually pay for them.
http://gigaom.com/apple/2011-smartph...msung-v-apple/
The numbers are close. Samsung will beat out Apple for 2011. This is only one company. Imagine the rest of the industry with Android phones sold worldwide. This will be a difficult year for Apple in 2012. Again, Apple is doing exactly what they have done with Mac back in the 80's. Its not sustainable, and will relegate Apple back to small niche market...again.
http://gigaom.com/apple/2011-smartph...msung-v-apple/
Yes... the end is nigh. We get it. Thank you.
Yes... the end is nigh. We get it. Thank you.
Wait, I'm confused. Should I sell my Apple stuff and buy an Android phone and Windows computer? If it's inevitable that Apple is going to be bankrupted by the end of this year, I may as well, I guess, right?
The numbers are close. Samsung will beat out Apple for 2011. This is only one company. Imagine the rest of the industry with Android phones sold worldwide. This will be a difficult year for Apple in 2012. Again, Apple is doing exactly what they have done with Mac back in the 80's. Its not sustainable, and will relegate Apple back to small niche market...again.
http://gigaom.com/apple/2011-smartph...msung-v-apple/
It's strange how record setting quarter after record setting quarter can be considered a failure. Maybe only in your eyes. Apple gets 50% of the mobile profits with just 3 phones. I think Apple will be fine in the short and long run.
If only they had market share instead of profit share. Oh what, market share can't buy you anything?
Not only that, but Samsung gives away phones too. So they maybe stretching the truth a bit when they say sold 32 million phones because half of them are given away with there buy 1 get 1 free. You will never see Apple do such a thing. When Apple says sold, they mean people actually pay for them.
When the telcos give you a "free"smartphone, that's the telcos' rolling the phone cost into the contract, and not any sign that Samsung or Apple or whoever didn't sell the phone to the telco. That would be ridiculous to believe any of these guys really give a bunch of product away to the mobile users.
Samsung doesn't actually state any numbers at all. We always just compare Apple's stated figures to Analyst estimates about Samsung.
Samsung used to report numbers, which is where I got my GS2 figures from. They only recently stated they weren't going to provide detailed sales figures.
All we have are estimates put out by consulting-whoevers, and numbers that are wildly inconsistent with collateral data on things such as app sales, web traffic, etc.
Bottom line: I don't believe these sales figures in the least.[/
Samsung is trying to fluff their way into some kind of popularity. Pretend they are this big smartphone seller. I don't think people will buy it. Pretend you have the sales until you do have the sales, or you are found out when your earnings don't match your ego
Samsung used to report numbers, which is where I got my GS2 figures from. They only recently stated they weren't going to provide detailed sales figures.
My question would be why are they doing that?.
All of us? None of us are objective and counter only with facts?
All of us.
Hmmmmmmm....
Forgive me, I purposefully generalize often expecting people to know I don't mean all...at all really...poor wording on my part, I'll try and avoid such generalizations in the future.
That's not fair to all the good Apple employees in the 90's. Apple brought a lot to the table, as did NeXT. Apple's problem was not so much the technology or products as it was lack of leadership and an unwillingness to break with the past.
The biggest gain for Apple from the acquisition was Jobs. NeXT was important, but Apple could have built their next generation on a number of different platforms if they had strong leadership.
Apple had lots of interesting stuff going on. From Copland to OpenDoc to Newton. Some cool, disconnected stuff. They had no direction (even less than Google has now). They were a collection of little fiefdoms controlled by people of "power" each having a different vision. The problem was, that vision was all they had. There were no plans on how to actually achieve any of the ideas they had.
NeXT not only provided people that had "vision" they also provided people that had a deep understanding of the art of software design and architecture. Be never had this IMO. Apple had lost it.
NeXT provided people with insight, vision, drive, ambition and some amazingly high technology. It is no accident within 6 months all but 1 of Apple's top 15 manegers were "previously of NeXT".
All you have to do is look at the primary tech:
OS X - NeXT based tech with added goodness.
iPhone - NeXT based tech. You still have all those amazing foundation classes but the GUI classes have been renamed and re-thought out.
XCode - NeXT based tech. PB preceded it for several years but it was headed by many NeXT based guys/OpenStep developers.
QuickTime - OK, you got me. Apple.
iPad - NeXT based tech
iTunes - OK, Another Apple based tech.
But the point is, NeXT brought much more than Steve Jobs. They brought FILE EXTENSIONS!!!
Adding/promoting File Extensions helped the Mac gain acceptance more than any single other change OS X made.
Who is the idiot that wrote this article? When Apple announces its iPhone sales, that number is going to be compared with a GUESS by one analyst about how many smartphones Samsung sold? I mean, are you people seeing how ridiculous these types of articles are? Absolutely worthless!
You can't compare a real number with a guess. Where are the real journalists?
I guess you can compare a real number with a guess. The regulators only see that there is WIDESPREAD agreement on a point, therefore nothing fraudulent. Ha! We won't have good journalists for a while yet. When certain utilities are gone then will have good blog reporters and the cream will rise to the top. Until then, CNBC and the networks have a racket going. Literally.
This is merely the method the wall street guys use to KEEP THE LID ON Apple. Their paycheck is guaranteed, since Apple will always have something exciting coming along. Just keep her low and let her rip when you need another money cycle, upside or downside. If the market is headed up and you got bets on the downside then bring out a new bad rumor. If that doesn't work then get your CNBC stars to mention Europe again. They can massage it either way. Often multiple times in a day.